Atheism/Theism thread

[PaperclipGames]

I can agree with such a definition. Phew. :3

I always thought of an atheist as someone who'd firmly answer "No", additionally adding something like "because believing in a god is ridiculous". Guess that way of looking at it is uniformally viewed as wrong by the majority of the people in this thread, so I'll adapt my vocabulary.
though, Choofers, the way you put it... it's still very edgy and can be considered a belief anyway, lmao, but w/e

[RB_Spirit]

Originally Posted by PaperclipGames

The amazing irony of this post is that you seem to have quite a feeling of being superior, enlightened, and feel the need to "bring the word" to everyone else in this thread.

just

wow, lmao

And it's not always believers that do bad when it comes to any sort of religious disasters. It really isn't like atheists are always the good guys.
The world is far from perfect. Does this thread need to be imperfect too? Apparently. It's a shame, though.

Not trying to get involved, BUT LOL i couldn't have worded it better Paper... XD

/Thread

[Reincarnate]

Originally Posted by PaperclipGames

@Reincarnate: So, from this view on the word "atheist", an atheist doesn't believe that no gods exist, either then? So if you ask an atheist, "does god exists?" he will answer something like "I dunno"? If that really is how you and Mollocephalus view the word "atheist", I can take back all of what I said about the word itself.

That's correct. We don't know if God exists or not, because there's no evidence to suggest he exists, and no evidence that can outrule him based on how God is typically defined.

Again, it would be like if I held up a locked safe and asked you to tell me what object you believed was inside. You don't know either way -- but you're not going to believe that something's inside until you have evidence to suggest it, but at the same time, you aren't going to rule it out.

I'm sure you'd be pissed off, too, if I said that the contents of this safe prove that I can deprive you of your right to eat food, and if I catch you eating food, I can stone you to death. Even though neither one of us can open the safe, I claim to know what's inside it because I have faith.

Originally Posted by JJTrixX

so you admit that you believe there is a possibility that God exists?

Sure, anything's possible when there's no evidence for it one way or the other.

But this is not to give you a false impression: I think God is possible just as much as I think Zeus is possible, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster, or peanut butter demons, or ghosts, or a universe where Nickelback is actually respected, etc.

[Choofers]

Originally Posted by PaperclipGames

though, Choofers, the way you put it... it's still very edgy and can be considered a belief anyway, lmao, but w/e

You think those answers could be considered beliefs? What dictionary are you reading lmao.

[RB_Spirit]

Originally Posted by Choofers

Any educated atheist would say something like "I don't believe so, no" or "there's no evidence pointing towards the existence of one."

Couldn't a "Non-belief" be considered a belief simply because they oppose what ever it may be that the next person is believing? Or am i just illiterate? Example: I don't believe in lemons being sour, then i must believe in something else correct? or can i be on the fence? But wouldn't that still be considered a belief?

[JJTrixX]

Originally Posted by Mollocephalus

If all evidence that you can currently get a grasp on suggests that gravity pulls things downwards, why do you still expect to be pulled upwards?

are you suggesting that ones "spirit" is susceptible to gravity? lol

[Choofers]

Originally Posted by RB_Spirit

Couldn't a "Non-belief" be considered a belief

No.

[PaperclipGames]

Originally Posted by Reincarnate

That's correct. We don't know if God exists or not, because there's no evidence to suggest he exists, and no evidence that can outrule him based on how God is typically defined.

Again, it would be like if I held up a locked safe and asked you to tell me what object you believed was inside. You don't know either way -- but you're not going to believe that something's inside until you have evidence to suggest it, but at the same time, you aren't going to rule it out.

I'm sure you'd be pissed off, too, if I said that the contents of this safe prove that I can deprive you of your right to eat food, and if I catch you eating food, I can stone you to death. Even though neither one of us can open the safe, I claim to know what's inside it because I have faith.




Sure, anything's possible when there's no evidence for it one way or the other.

But this is not to give you a false impression: I think God is possible just as much as I think Zeus is possible, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster, or peanut butter demons, or ghosts, or a universe where Nickelback is actually respected, etc.

I can completely relate to this post, and I'm glad that that's cleared out now. Thanks.

@Choofers: "I don't believe X" can be interpreted as "I believe in not X" (linguistically speaking; logically speaking this is not always right), or be translated to an "I believe in Y" (where Y is something like "anything but X") and mean the same thing; basically, an actual disbelief is a version of a belief. But then that's interpretation and I'm fine with you thinking otherwise. It's one of those things about definitions that don't really matter, so, yeah. *shrug*

[JJTrixX]

Originally Posted by Reincarnate

That's correct. We don't know if God exists or not, because there's no evidence to suggest he exists, and no evidence that can outrule him based on how God is typically defined.


Sure, anything's possible when there's no evidence for it one way or the other.

Since you admit that you believe there is a possibility that God exists, you are also confirming that your form of atheism IS a belief. Although you claim to be an atheist,(like most self-proclaimed atheists do) you really aren't. You are agnostic.

[Reincarnate]

Originally Posted by JJTrixX

Since you admit that you believe there is a possibility that God exists, you are also confirming that your form of atheism IS a belief. Although you claim to be an atheist,(like most self-proclaimed atheists do) you really aren't. You are agnostic.

Acknowledging that X is possible doesn't mean you hold a belief on X's existence. It's possible that the safe contains a water bottle, a bee nest, a cloth, a piece of paper, or nothing at all -- but it doesn't mean we believe one way or the other if something is present/what it is.

You're just bending over backwards at this point to connect the word "belief" to it in any way you can, lol.

EDIT: I am an agnostic atheist.

[Wayward Vagabond]

wow jtrix you're so determined as fuck to prove someone wrong or to change there mind. what are you trying to validate

[RB_Spirit]

Originally Posted by Reincarnate

Acknowledging that X is possible doesn't mean you hold a belief on X's existence. It's possible that the safe contains a water bottle, a bee nest, a cloth, a piece of paper, or nothing at all -- but it doesn't mean we believe one way or the other if something is present/what it is.

You're just bending over backwards at this point to connect the word "belief" to it in any way you can, lol.

That's true, but when you can't prove or disprove something, deep down you can't say you 100% don't believe in it, simply because you're unsure of the truth. And evidence and lack of evidence sais so clearly.

[PaperclipGames]

Originally Posted by RB_Spirit

That's true, but when you can't prove or disprove something, deep down you can't say you 100% don't believe in it, simply because you're unsure of the truth.

Logical flaw right there. Being unsure of the truth means that there is nothing you truly believe in; thus, basically, you believe in none of the things (where "believing in x" means "being convinced that x is true").

However, we have a list of possibilities what could be in the safe: a cloth, a paper, a bee's nest, nothing, and so on. We can label these options a_1, a_2, a_3...
Since you cannot look into the safe, you don't truly believe in any one specific a_i. However, we must acknowledge that at least one of the a_j must be correct: either one of the options is in it, or there simply is nothing in it. So, even without being able to look into the safe, you can believe something about the contents: you believe that "a_1, a_2, a_3, ... a_x is in it, or that nothing is in it" (by definition). This belief about the safe is based on the the common knowledge (belief?!?!) that a safe is capable of containing something in general. Again, the difference between disbelief and belief are (almost) non-existent.

Another example: I give you any random whole number. Do you believe it is even? Do you believe it is odd? You can't know until you look, so don't believe in any one specific (even/odd). However, you do believe that it either even or odd. So even without strict knowledge, it is possible to 100% believe.

[JJTrixX]

Originally Posted by Wayward Vagabond

wow jtrix you're so determined as fuck to prove someone wrong or to change there mind. what are you trying to validate

why atheists or should i now say "agnostic atheists" are lost.

[Wayward Vagabond]

why

[JJTrixX]

Originally Posted by Wayward Vagabond

why

so they can understand that they can have a better life and be happy and experience something more beautiful then any science in this world can prove.

[Reincarnate]

Originally Posted by JJTrixX

so they can understand that they can have a better life and be happy and experience something more beautiful then any science in this world can prove.

Do you think that something is true just because it makes you happy?

[PaperclipGames]

Originally Posted by JJTrixX

so they can understand that they can have a better life and be happy and experience something more beautiful then any science in this world can prove.

I'm going to have to disagree with this personally. I think science is beautiful, and so much can be done in science. New things get discovered all the time, things are being expanded on, there is so much to explore. Most (all?) religious books are finished. Nothing new. It gets kinda boring.

I can imagine that truly believing in a God that is omnipotent, all-knowing, and still loves you unconditionally can be a wonderful thing though. It would be nice if I believed something like that.



Also, btw, just a friendly reminder: without science you wouldn't be posting in this thread, nor would you probably even be alive, and even if you were, you'd likely be standing in a field of grass fucking a goat.

[JJTrixX]

Originally Posted by PaperclipGames

Also, btw, just a friendly reminder: without science you wouldn't be posting in this thread, nor would you probably even be alive, and even if you were, you'd likely be standing in a field of grass fucking a goat.

Science came from God. Would you not honor your mother or father, the very people whom without, you would not exist?

[JJTrixX]

Originally Posted by Reincarnate

Do you think that something is true just because it makes you happy?

It depends on what you mean. Playing ffr makes me happy. Is ffr true?