fuck Georgia

[the sun fan]

Re: fuck Georgia

please appreciate my work for what it tried to be sunfan

I fucking love it

[Funnygurl555]

Re: fuck Georgia

i have peaked

[mellonxcollie]

Re: fuck Georgia

You're just wrong about this.
I'm not saying you need to set up a booth at a pro-life rally, just be a decent person when you encounter any of the 4 pro-lifers in Ontario.

My high school used to send bus loads of kids to go protest, essentially bribing them with an extremely cheap 3-day trip to ottawa with all of their friends that they got to take off school for

Also used to have to counter-protest when I was in university because a local group does a "40 days of life" protest where they literally stand outside the hospital and protest for the entire 40 days of Lent, trying to make sure they have at least one person out there 24 hours a day. A group from the university organized a counter-protest and a lot of random people showed up too

Also had to call the police because another group had extremely graphic banners that they were hanging over the side of the highway. The cop told me "everything they are doing is within the law, you can do whatever you want within the law" essentially telling me to go fuck with them because he couldn't. The city eventually had to pass a bylaw about hanging things over the highway to get them to leave. The same group was passing out EXTREMELY graphic flyers door to door while school was getting out, I had to go up to all my neighbours doors and take them away. A couple of older kids started helping me when they saw

Luckily for us I don't think they will ever get anywhere but that doesn't stop them from trying. and I'm never going to stop counter-protesting or talking about this, even as a Canadian, because you can never get too comfortable.

[the sun fan]

Re: fuck Georgia

So the 4 pro-lifers are pretty active, eh?

[mellonxcollie]

Re: fuck Georgia

Yeah they are and their goal is to reverse the law, same as happened there, so fuck that

[dAnceguy117]

Re: fuck Georgia

People so often default to, "you should be peaceful and civil, if you're not civil you're just like them!!!!!!!!", not realizing that

1) we've fucking tried
2) this attitude reinforces the status-quo because it suggests that the only way to make progress is to get down on our knees and suck-off the patriarchy instead of, you know, challenging the institution itself

I don't think being civil is on par with getting on one's knees, at all.

That's not to say that I think hopping on flash flash revolution dot com and saying "pro-lifers are stupid assholes and here's why" is a no-no. Being civil is unnecessary in some settings.

However, if I'm talking to one person and I feel like I might have some pull, I'm gonna try to make my case without making them want to exit the conversation. This also means future talks are more likely.

I guess my point here isn't totally relevant to Progress because the sphere of influence is so tiny, but every little bit helps, right?

Just wanted to throw in my 2 cents after skimming, feel free to tell me why I'm wrong and I'll listen and take it into consideration.

[inDheart]

Re: fuck Georgia

fuck missouri

[MixMasterLar]

Re: fuck Georgia

We've been trying to reach out to pro-lifers for fucking decades now and look at where we are now.

Abortion is legal in most states
Even the lawmakers are admitting that this can't possible stick when challenged
Roe v Wade hasn't been overturned and probably won't ever.

I feel like we can probably focus on the lawmakers doing a big no-no and not demonize all pro-lifers and somehow still come out ok.


My sticking point is that I see way too many people on the left rather serious or not, starting to default to fuck this, fuck them we might have to start getting rough and like, I really don't want to see another Civil War snowball from that. Because I think that has a great chance of happening in another decade

[Dinglesberry]

Re: fuck Georgia

guck feorgia

[devonin]

Re: fuck Georgia

Roe v Wade hasn't been overturned and probably won't ever.

Every single one of these laws, every single one, was proposed -not- to try and actually get those laws into force, but to keep trying until one of them can get pushed all the way to the Supreme Court -because- the addition of Kavanaugh finally makes it likely that on challenge, Roe could get overturned.

You say "probably won't ever" which is why these things are going to get to the stage where we have to hold our nose and hope Clarence Thomas sees reason.

[rayword45]

Re: fuck Georgia

and hope Clarence Thomas sees reason.

Thx biden

Unrelated im just venting

[the sun fan]

Re: fuck Georgia

Every single one of these laws, every single one, was proposed -not- to try and actually get those laws into force, but to keep trying until one of them can get pushed all the way to the Supreme Court -because- the addition of Kavanaugh finally makes it likely that on challenge, Roe could get overturned.

You say "probably won't ever" which is why these things are going to get to the stage where we have to hold our nose and hope Clarence Thomas sees reason.

I really don't see how any of them make it to the Supreme Court in the first place.

It is a very real fear if one of them does it make it there, however.

I think that its very rare where something that has stood for this long is rolled back by the Supreme Court (Yes, I know it happens) and I just can't quite wrap my head around it happening here but

I know that it could happen, and that sucks.

[devonin]

Re: fuck Georgia

More importantly: Republican legislators think it can, which is why they're trying to introduce legislations that will get challenged, so they can try and get them there.

[DossarLX ODI]

Re: fuck Georgia

there isn't a middle ground
there doesn't need to be a middle ground

When this topic turned into a political issue, it was effectively ruined.

1. Culturally people HAVE to obsess splitting everyone into two buckets (in this case it is pro-choice and pro-life, although there are many other topics).

The introduction of those labels encourage demonizing the other side (i.e. "you are an enemy, I'm right and you're wrong so shut up"). If you're not pro-life, you're pro-death. If you're not pro-choice, you're anti-choice. The naming is specifically done the way it is to incriminate anyone that doesn't want to be placed under a certain bucket.

And now we're in this mess where a bunch of people are trying to appear morally superior, resulting in chains of "anti-choice forced birthers!" and "pro-death baby killers!" in addition to stressful legal battles. Literally if the legal crap just stopped, and the labels went away, think about what could move forward with that.

2. Abuse of hypotheticals to the point that the woman is forgotten.

I was not aware that many pro-life women who get abortions view themselves as special cases, that one was new and eye-opening.

The problem with trying to contain abortion to just an abstract discussion is that people forget these are real people we are talking about.

The last paragraph sounds very similar to adoption, although it does hammer home the point that the people we are talking about are women with real emotions and feelings, and going through a pregnancy can be physically and mentally traumatic. Any person who treats pregnancy like an insignificant theoretical topic is degrading the woman, to say the least.

I'll see trolls gaslight with comments like:
- "Killing babies is immoral!"
- "Keep it in your pants, actions have consequences!"

And then someone closely related, or even themselves, gets pregnant. It's all fun and games until it actually happens in real life. It's a wake-up call that it's easy to dismiss a woman in an abstract idea, and then biology and life circumstances kick in.

Take some more of the testimonials from DaBackpack's link as an extension to this point:

"In 1973, after Roe v. Wade, abortion became legal but had to be performed in a hospital. That of course was changed later. For the first 'legal abortion day' I had scheduled five procedures. While scrubbing between cases, I was accosted by the Chief of the OB/Gyn service. He asked me, 'How many children are you going to kill today?' My response, out of anger, was a familiar vulgar retort. About three months later, this born-again Christian called me to explain that he was against abortion but his daughter was only a junior in high school and was too young to have a baby and he was also afraid that if she did have a baby she would not want to put it up for adoption. I told him he did not need to explain the situation to me. 'All I need to know', I said, 'is that SHE wants an abortion.' Two years later I performed a second abortion on her during her college break. She thanked me and pleaded, 'Please don't tell my dad, he is still anti-abortion.'" (Physician, Washington State)

Bolded part above is an example of the gaslighting, but then the same guy has somebody close (his daughter) fall into that situation. So much for the hypothetical/abstract discussion. The world is a messy place and people need to realize we can't just stick to abstract discussions. We're dealing with real people here.

"My first encounter with this phenomenon came when I was doing a 2-week follow-up at a family planning clinic. The woman's anti-choice values spoke indirectly through her expression and body language. She told me that she had been offended by the other women in the abortion clinic waiting room because they were using abortion as a form of birth control, but her condom had broken so she had no choice! I had real difficulty not pointing out that she did have a choice, and she had made it! Just like the other women in the waiting room." (Physician, Ontario)

Bolded part is another example of how reality kicks in. Again, this is about real people.

"I've had several cases over the years in which the anti-abortion patient had rationalized in one way or another that her case was the only exception, but the one that really made an impression was the college senior who was the president of her campus Right-to-Life organization, meaning that she had worked very hard in that organization for several years. As I was completing her procedure, I asked what she planned to do about her high office in the RTL organization. Her response was a wide-eyed, 'You're not going to tell them, are you!?' When assured that I was not, she breathed a sigh of relief, explaining how important that position was to her and how she wouldn't want this to interfere with it." (Physician, Texas)

I like this testimonial as it illustrates a few realizations from the college senior:
- That she spent years of hard work to get to where she was, but it could go down the drain very quickly.
- That because of the demonizing attitude of the abortion topic, she now has to worry about the information spreading around.

The irony here is that the narrative is usually "it's an inconvenience" but this woman realizes it could seriously impact her future.

"I had a patient about ten years ago who traveled up to New York City from South Carolina for an abortion. I asked her why she went such a long way to get the procedure. Her answer was that she was a member of a church group that didn't believe in abortion and she didn't want anyone to know she was having one. She planned to return to the group when she went back to South Carolina." (Physician, New York)

Again, how's that for irony? These people know full well how much the topic is stigmatized, and now have to worry about their own privacy.

[DossarLX ODI]

Re: fuck Georgia

On a different note, despite how I don't have a horse in this race, I was motivated enough from recent events to donate to Planned Parenthood.

I can't imagine how many relationships will be ruined from these decisions, and how much increased medical debt people will be in.

It's really sad to see other peoples' misfortune have to be used for something that should have never turned into a political issue.