Ingame Song Information

[TC_Halogen]

Lawn Wake IV should be VC too.

[qqwref]

Watch as we come back in a year and people are saying "4 Chord should be mid VC". I'm not kidding. I'd really like to have some kind of objective standard (for instance "a VC should be no faster than [song 1], and no harder to PA than [song 2], and have no more jacks than [song 3]") so we don't have to keep pushing songs down every time people get better.

Sometimes I feel that people are comparing easy FMOs to mid/hard FMOs (and then deciding they're too easy to be FMO)... and maybe if the FMO range wasn't so wide we wouldn't have this problem so much.

[mhss1992]

Originally Posted by qqwref

Watch as we come back in a year and people are saying "4 Chord should be mid VC". I'm not kidding. I'd really like to have some kind of objective standard (for instance "a VC should be no faster than [song 1], and no harder to PA than [song 2], and have no more jacks than [song 3]") so we don't have to keep pushing songs down every time people get better.

Sometimes I feel that people are comparing easy FMOs to mid/hard FMOs (and then deciding they're too easy to be FMO)... and maybe if the FMO range wasn't so wide we wouldn't have this problem so much.

That's what I'm talking about. There has to be an absolute difficulty for the borderline songs, they're just too undefined.

[who_cares973]

Originally Posted by qqwref

Watch as we come back in a year and people are saying "4 Chord should be mid VC". I'm not kidding. I'd really like to have some kind of objective standard (for instance "a VC should be no faster than [song 1], and no harder to PA than [song 2], and have no more jacks than [song 3]") so we don't have to keep pushing songs down every time people get better.

Sometimes I feel that people are comparing easy FMOs to mid/hard FMOs (and then deciding they're too easy to be FMO)... and maybe if the FMO range wasn't so wide we wouldn't have this problem so much.

FINALLY someone that knows whats going on here

[Quigly]

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

Lawn Wake IV should be VC too.

No that's the only FMO I have a chance of AAAing. :<

[EAGAMES]

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

Lawn Wake IV should be VC too.

rofl seriously.

Originally Posted by [B

qqwerf][/b]Watch as we come back in a year and people are saying "4 Chord should be mid VC". I'm not kidding. I'd really like to have some kind of objective standard (for instance "a VC should be no faster than [song 1], and no harder to PA than [song 2], and have no more jacks than [song 3]") so we don't have to keep pushing songs down every time people get better.

Sometimes I feel that people are comparing easy FMOs to mid/hard FMOs (and then deciding they're too easy to be FMO)... and maybe if the FMO range wasn't so wide we wouldn't have this problem so much.

lol... not going to happen.

It's not that some say that the easy FMOs don't compare to the mid/higher FMOs and should be bumped down to VCs, but its that people are comparing FMOs to the rest of it's difficulty division, to the FGO song seperation, and the VC portion of songs and realize that some songs are just too easy for FMO status.

[MinaciousGrace]

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

Lawn Wake IV should be VC too.

not before i use it to unlock oni with my pinkies

[jimerax]

Ievan Polkka wasn't meant to be FMO, since I didn't put any hands in it.

[Xx{Midnight}xX]

Ievan Polkka is by far one of the easiest FMO's on FFR and I like the fact it's this way. It has jump jacks a few really mega tricky sections. I think it should stay a FMO because of like Tass said, "the jumpjacks with 3-framers are JUST enough to make it not be VC"

On the idea of Oni: I think we should add a lot more files, and subtract a few as well. (NWE being one of them, that's by far to easy a AAA.)

Originally Posted by 0

I still think Death Piano should be a 13 footer
either that or RATO should be 12

^ HELL YES.

Originally Posted by [TeRa]

nwe, silence, black key, summertime perf should be vcs also, probably jeanie also, i could see that as the lowest FMO though

Silence, those patters are frickin nuts. Summer time perfume is such a POS file it should stay a FMO. Jean is WAY to difficult to PA and FC to be a VC. Black Key, would make an ok (but really borderline) Mega High VC, cause the patterns are pretty simple and PAing it's somewhat simple it's just those slight jacks that make it so borderline for me personally, add the fact of how it doesn't pause as far to my memory, it's pretty much a purple note Vertex Beta. Lawn Wake IV is a really speed and reading FMO it has enough pauses it might make a decent VC but that section around arrow 740 (The slight burst part) and then the double trills double trills section makes me hesitant to agree.

[Coolboyrulez0]

How in the world is Kanon-Kanon not an FMO?


Let's play: "Compare it with other VCs and FMOs!"

Kanon-Kanon |VC| 25 AAAs

VS.

Balloon Fever |VC| 150 AAAs
Lawn Wake I (LW EP Edit) |FMO| 62 AAAs
Novo Mundo |FMO| 51 AAAs
Going on Spring Wind |FMO| 43 AAAs

Also For FFR should be an FMO, hands down. Song has been in FFR forever and only has 28 AAAs, with most from older players.

Discuss.

[Bolth mannn]

Originally Posted by Coolboyrulez0

How in the world is Kanon-Kanon not an FMO?


Let's play: "Compare it with other VCs and FMOs!"

Kanon-Kanon |VC| 25 AAAs

VS.

Balloon Fever |VC| 150 AAAs
Lawn Wake I (LW EP Edit) |FMO| 62 AAAs
Novo Mundo |FMO| 51 AAAs
Going on Spring Wind |FMO| 43 AAAs

Also For FFR should be an FMO, hands down. Song has been in FFR forever and only has 28 AAAs, with most from older players.

Discuss.

kanon should be FMO yes. For FFR is VC, the only part that would even make it VC is the roll at the end which isnt that hard to master if you know how.

[qqwref]

Originally Posted by Coolboyrulez0

Also For FFR should be an FMO, hands down. Song has been in FFR forever and only has 28 AAAs, with most from older players.

I disagree. It's a really easy song difficulty-wise (maybe even a 9), neither fast nor overly dense; it's just tough to AAA because of a few tricky parts. I think if this was FMO you'd have a ton of people calling it their first FMO FC/SDG, because it's really easy to hit the patterns, even if you can't hit them accurately. So I'd say keep it VC.

Originally Posted by Coolboyrulez0

How in the world is Kanon-Kanon not an FMO?

I agree. It's really fast. Of course all the fast people think it's not hard :P

[Coolboyrulez0]

First we need to determine how this whole difficulty ranking works.
Is it determined by amount of FC/AAAs or arrow density, speed and patterns or or combination of any of these?

If we were to go by AAAs For FFR should def. be an FMO but if we would go by arrow density and speed it would be, maybe a high C.
Patterns would bump it up to mid-high VC.

[qqwref]

Originally Posted by Coolboyrulez0

First we need to determine how this whole difficulty ranking works.
Is it determined by amount of FC/AAAs or arrow density, speed and patterns or or combination of any of these?

If we were to go by AAAs For FFR should def. be an FMO but if we would go by arrow density and speed it would be, maybe a high C.
Patterns would bump it up to mid-high VC.

The way I interpret it is a combination of arrow density, speed/length, and patterns. There are a lot of tricky 8s and 9s (and Synthlight files) that are clearly much harder to AAA than other songs of that difficulty level, but not more difficult to FC or read, so they haven't been bumped up. I think the reasoning is that it would look worse to have someone say "first VC FC!" and have it be SSSG than to have someone finally AAA their last difficulty 4 song and have it be SSSG.

[Niala]

On the subject of Kanon-Kanon: I agree that it COULD be an FMO. It has the really fast 1-handed trill, and the step jumps are actually really difficult at the end. Plus, the jump section is really difficult. But, I'm fine with it just being like the hardest VC. It really could go either way with me.

[Redorigami]

Kanon Kanon definitely feels like it could be FMO, easily, but keep in mind it's a purchased song, so that may have some influence on the number of AAAs

[who_cares973]

there needs to be a system in place to place files in the correct difficulty like it was mentioned before

doing difficulties based on nothing but opinions is going to get things nowhere and files will always be called easier beause of it

[Patashu]

would take a ****ing long time to tweak it to approximate general consensus

[jimerax]

all you can do when you determine difficulty of newer songs is comparing them with other older ingame songs.

[stavie33]

I've said this for about, since Kanon-Kanon came out? It IS FMO difficulty, they just misplaced it, AGAIN, and when I made the new difficulty chart, I had it at 76-77, but JX and TC Hal fought to make it VC and I wasn't in the mood to argue, but that has MUCH faster jacks, and longer for that matter (the one handed trill is faster and longer) than anything in Ievan Polka, which for some retarded reason, got FMO originally, so Kanon-Kanon should totally be up there.

Also, @ the new 3 songs, this is what baffles me about FFR. Marrionette is a fine VC, 72 IMO, but then we have Nebula, which has faster and much more annoying jacks than Polka, which once more, WAS FMO, and now we have Nebula as a VC. I agree Nebula is a VC, NOT an FMO, but it's harder than Polka which got FMO for a bit, so I'm confused by FFR's initial ratings. Nebual = 74, hands down. But then we hit the new border song that will be discussed the most: Twelve. This song is insane, just watch flaming dingleberries replay of it, when it hits the wall of white notes, that is NOT VC material, that area is FMO, and the rest is really high VC. So what is it? I'm not in the mood to make another possible Oni get, but this songs insane, and it will be up for debate upon public release, I'm sure. I give it 75,

SO, updated ratings chart:

Bus Rides with People (74)
La Campanella (91-92, trills are so evil)
Cyro Sleep (58, high VD)
Inside the Fire (61, trills and jacks, but overall low C)
Run Through the Stream of Time (73, annoying as hell to AAA)
Ievan Polka (73, it's not any harder than Garyuuntensei or Sympathizer)
Nebula (74, jacks are insanerz)
Destined Marionette (73, jumps and speed)
Twelve (75-76, new borderline song)

That's about it