El Paso and Dayton Shootings (SERIOUS TOPIC)

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  • Svaz
    quite clever
    • Oct 2008
    • 792

    #151
    Re: El Paso and Dayton Shootings (SERIOUS TOPIC)

    Something that hasn't been mentioned explicitly yet, but that I think about every time, is the way mass media treats perpetrators.

    I imagine the heavy exposure probably is an added motive to commit violence to some extent, as an example from these events: do you think we'd all know of and/or read some manifesto posted by the El Paso murderer on 8chan if he wasn't a murderer? I'd imagine not; he'd be mocked or lauded in his corner of the internet, and the general public wouldn't even see it. Big media focuses so heavily on and gives so much attention to the perpetrators of crimes over victims and delves into who they were, I'm sure in some capacity it's perceived as a means to an end, a means to get their word out there to a huge national/international audience and perhaps incite others to their cause.

    As a slight tangent to the internet, I remember years ago seeing threads about body counts and high scores in regards to mass murders on 4chan and probably other places (in the era of the VA Tech shooter and Elliot Rodgers), which kind of ties back into curtailing spaces where people feel emboldened to make statements like that, not only racist and extremist takes but from a position otherwise detached from the repercussions (I guess) of social norms and expectations.

    A lot of spaces like that wind up lauding mass murderers for their activities and others still will have tumblrs or something dedicated to fetishizing mass murderers and writing creepy fanfiction about them. Even shit like Pumped Up Kicks kinda falls into this category.

    I'm not even sure where I'm going with this at this point, but I can say that it's getting a little bit better -- with this alone I've seen a lot less full naming and a lot more "El Paso and Dayton shootings" and "El Paso Shooter" than times in the past. I'm not trying to vilify the media either, I suppose I just come from stuff like this with a bad taste in my mouth a lot of the time. These people don't deserve the reward of attention for being murderers I guess is my point.

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    • Svaz
      quite clever
      • Oct 2008
      • 792

      #152
      Re: El Paso and Dayton Shootings (SERIOUS TOPIC)

      Originally posted by DaBackpack
      what happens if every cake shop bans you?
      Isn't The Daily Stormer (just a link to the Wikipedia article btw) a pretty good example of this? Lousy with hate speech, blacklisted from most places, exists primarily on TOR & the dark web now.

      edit: nvm apparently they're back on regular www through some Chinese ISP, what a terrible discovery
      Last edited by Svaz; 08-6-2019, 09:18 PM.

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      • mellonxcollie
        Sectional Moderator
        Sectional Moderator
        • Dec 2006
        • 1302

        #153
        Re: El Paso and Dayton Shootings (SERIOUS TOPIC)

        Svaz you're a fucking great poster
        Follow my dog on Twitter: https://twitter.com/Riles_puppy

        Comment

        • mellonxcollie
          Sectional Moderator
          Sectional Moderator
          • Dec 2006
          • 1302

          #154
          Re: El Paso and Dayton Shootings (SERIOUS TOPIC)

          Originally posted by Funnygurl555
          if hate speech has a specific definition then thats good and invalidates some of what ive been saying


          We've had hate speech laws and there is a precedent for us
          Follow my dog on Twitter: https://twitter.com/Riles_puppy

          Comment

          • Funnygurl555
            T-Force's Rival
            • Dec 2010
            • 1865

            #155
            Re: El Paso and Dayton Shootings (SERIOUS TOPIC)

            you would also have to prove that it has a robust record of doing good and had limited negative externalities

            im willing to believe im wrong, but i need stronger data
            Originally posted by MixMasterLar
            is funny eaman?
            Can you like not use those stupid names right now? Took me long enough to get these screen names straight in my head
            Originally posted by the sun fan
            GET DUNKED FUNNY
            (eaman is her name irl, friend)

            Comment

            • mellonxcollie
              Sectional Moderator
              Sectional Moderator
              • Dec 2006
              • 1302

              #156
              Re: El Paso and Dayton Shootings (SERIOUS TOPIC)

              Originally posted by Funnygurl555
              you would also have to prove that it has a robust record of doing good and had limited negative externalities

              im willing to believe im wrong, but i need stronger data
              My point is that hate speech does have a definition where I live
              Follow my dog on Twitter: https://twitter.com/Riles_puppy

              Comment

              • Funnygurl555
                T-Force's Rival
                • Dec 2010
                • 1865

                #157
                Re: El Paso and Dayton Shootings (SERIOUS TOPIC)

                Originally posted by mellonxcollie
                My point is that hate speech does have a definition where I live
                you were replying to what i said though, and i would like evidence that its specific enough

                not that i want you in particular to provide it though i was telling the thread what id need to change my mind
                Originally posted by MixMasterLar
                is funny eaman?
                Can you like not use those stupid names right now? Took me long enough to get these screen names straight in my head
                Originally posted by the sun fan
                GET DUNKED FUNNY
                (eaman is her name irl, friend)

                Comment

                • Sanjixcon
                  Banned
                  • Jun 2016
                  • 617

                  #158
                  Re: El Paso and Dayton Shootings (SERIOUS TOPIC)

                  wiki definition
                  "Hate speech is a statement intended to demean and brutalize another, or the use of cruel and derogatory language on the basis of real or alleged membership in a social group.[1] Hate speech is speech that attacks a person or a group on the basis of protected attributes such as race, religion, ethnic origin, national origin, sex, disability, sexual orientation, or gender identity.[2][3]"

                  "The United States does not have hate speech laws, since American courts have repeatedly ruled that laws criminalizing hate speech violate the guarantee to freedom of speech contained in the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.[10] There are several categories of speech that are not protected by the First Amendment, such as speech that calls for imminent violence upon a person or group. However, the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that hate speech is not one of these categories.[101][102][103][104][105] Court rulings often must be reexamined to ensure the U.S. Constitution is being upheld in the ruling on whether or not the words count as a violation.[106]"

                  Comment

                  • DaBackpack
                    ~ お ま ん こ ~
                    • Mar 2014
                    • 918

                    #159
                    Re: El Paso and Dayton Shootings (SERIOUS TOPIC)

                    Originally posted by Sanjixcon
                    wiki definition
                    "Hate speech is a statement intended to demean and brutalize another, or the use of cruel and derogatory language on the basis of real or alleged membership in a social group.[1] Hate speech is speech that attacks a person or a group on the basis of protected attributes such as race, religion, ethnic origin, national origin, sex, disability, sexual orientation, or gender identity.[2][3]"

                    "The United States does not have hate speech laws, since American courts have repeatedly ruled that laws criminalizing hate speech violate the guarantee to freedom of speech contained in the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.[10] There are several categories of speech that are not protected by the First Amendment, such as speech that calls for imminent violence upon a person or group. However, the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that hate speech is not one of these categories.[101][102][103][104][105] Court rulings often must be reexamined to ensure the U.S. Constitution is being upheld in the ruling on whether or not the words count as a violation.[106]"
                    Right, there's a legal definition for hate speech, but hate speech is still protected by the First Amendment


                    Originally posted by Moogy
                    no one cares
                    Originally posted by TWG Dan Hedgehog
                    there are 743 matches for hedgehog suicide on deviantart
                    that's kind of a sad statistic

                    Comment

                    • Dinglesberry
                      longing
                      • Dec 2007
                      • 2679

                      #160
                      Re: El Paso and Dayton Shootings (SERIOUS TOPIC)

                      Originally posted by DaBackpack
                      Right, there's a legal definition for hate speech, but hate speech is still protected by the First Amendment
                      the joke of first ammendmant dumb america laws and shit is that apparently its fine to oppress and ostracize an entire community or group of people under the guise of it being free speech, but would that not mean that the group that is being persecuted and shit suddenly lost their ABILITY to make free speech?

                      so free speech is basically "if you have the ability and power to say whatever the fuck you want, then its fine and should be allowed", yet lets not even think about the people who are actually being targetted by this who literally can't use free speech to defend themselves, like lol

                      Comment

                      • Dinglesberry
                        longing
                        • Dec 2007
                        • 2679

                        #161
                        Re: El Paso and Dayton Shootings (SERIOUS TOPIC)

                        go back to twg where u belong

                        Comment

                        • Sanjixcon
                          Banned
                          • Jun 2016
                          • 617

                          #162
                          Re: El Paso and Dayton Shootings (SERIOUS TOPIC)

                          so in canada how do they decide what the proper punishment is for when someone uses hate speech? is there a list or particular words/phrases that scale in order of "this is only worth a cash fine" to "this is worth jail time"?

                          Comment

                          • Funnygurl555
                            T-Force's Rival
                            • Dec 2010
                            • 1865

                            #163
                            Re: El Paso and Dayton Shootings (SERIOUS TOPIC)

                            tbh im glad for this thread cause it made me realize how much i miss arguing in any sort of intellectual capacity

                            i dont do that anymore o.o
                            Originally posted by MixMasterLar
                            is funny eaman?
                            Can you like not use those stupid names right now? Took me long enough to get these screen names straight in my head
                            Originally posted by the sun fan
                            GET DUNKED FUNNY
                            (eaman is her name irl, friend)

                            Comment

                            • DaBackpack
                              ~ お ま ん こ ~
                              • Mar 2014
                              • 918

                              #164
                              Re: El Paso and Dayton Shootings (SERIOUS TOPIC)

                              Originally posted by Dinglesberry
                              go back to twg where u belong
                              if you read like even 5 posts back you'd see that I think hate speech should be banned

                              nani the fuck are you even doing


                              Originally posted by Moogy
                              no one cares
                              Originally posted by TWG Dan Hedgehog
                              there are 743 matches for hedgehog suicide on deviantart
                              that's kind of a sad statistic

                              Comment

                              • devonin
                                Very Grave Indeed
                                Event Staff
                                FFR Simfile Author
                                • Apr 2004
                                • 10120

                                #165
                                Re: El Paso and Dayton Shootings (SERIOUS TOPIC)

                                Originally posted by Sanjixcon
                                so in canada how do they decide what the proper punishment is for when someone uses hate speech? is there a list or particular words/phrases that scale in order of "this is only worth a cash fine" to "this is worth jail time"?
                                There are several Supreme Court rulings on a more precise definition of which kinds of hate speech are which and some are worse than others, but like just about every other crime in just about every country, judge discretion in sentencing is a thing.

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