TWG 205 - Zero Active Player Dilemma GAME THREAD

[FreezinIce]

Originally Posted by Hateandhatred

No fuck off, I don't buy it. You could have just said you were lazy, this is terrible.

I also didnt want to talk about it with you because i didnt feel like i would get anything from you except some weak justifications, which is exactly what i got.

Being town doesnt mean your right. You are worth more alive as a warm body stopping wolves from winning by parity, unless you're going to grab a baseball bat and start pressuring people yourself. Another thing FFR never does is look at the reads of the dead, and even if they did the reads of a human on d1 are probably not even worth the 2 cents you end up sharing.

Im telling you right now if you are actually human here the last thing you should be ok with is the only person you know for sure is a human dying d0.

[FreezinIce]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

I'm tempted to assume FreezinIce/H&H is a TvT late night headbutt fight.

I think game gets spicier voting storn/shadow god while keeping an eye on whatever T-Force/Raeko will say tomorrow.

Is this really TvT? Maybe hes just a wolf here banking on an early wagon getting no traction for a whole day.

I dont feel like im talking to a human here

[FreezinIce]

Its like a double bluff where "if i say im ok with dying maybe they won't kill me."

If you are actually a human here you are making it infuriating to properly read you and id almost rather just go against my wincon and have u die just for peace lf mind and to prevent shenanigans

[FreezinIce]

I probably dont move my vote for the rest of the day, if you have a problem with that i look forward to seeing if your actions are actually defendable.

[Hateandhatred]

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

I also didnt want to talk about it with you because i didnt feel like i would get anything from you except some weak justifications, which is exactly what i got.

And you didn't address much of it, aside from "why are you suddenly on my case when you said you wouldn't" and "you shouldn't be cool with dying". You did make sure to not address my points at all though.

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

Being town doesnt mean your right. You are worth more alive as a warm body stopping wolves from winning by parity, unless you're going to grab a baseball bat and start pressuring people yourself. Another thing FFR never does is look at the reads of the dead, and even if they did the reads of a human on d1 are probably not even worth the 2 cents you end up sharing.

1: I have not hesitated to press people myself all game. I pressed bugkid, I pressed Haku, and I'm pressing you now. Literally all I didn't do is start trying to tell people to get their votes off me. And of course I know that, but again, you didn't address what I said about how anyone is -actually- going to prevent a mislynch in a logical manner, and this is certainly not going to happen with everyone not wanting the one person whose alignment they know (themselves) to get lynched. Someone will, and then it'll be that.

2: You don't need to tell me how to play the game, because I don't know your alignment. It's not like I'm going to play YOUR game without knowing that, I'd be the biggest fool ever. Yes I understand you might be saying that with the interest of town in play, but you're also not doing the same thing with what I'm actually saying.

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

Im telling you right now if you are actually human here the last thing you should be ok with is the only person you know for sure is a human dying d0.

It shouldn't even matter that I am a human. This is even moreso the wolf wincon lol.

[Hateandhatred]

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

Is this really TvT? Maybe hes just a wolf here banking on an early wagon getting no traction for a whole day.

I dont feel like im talking to a human here

FreezinIce

No, but I do think you're currently trying to take advantage of this situation from a wolf perspective. Trying to tell me to townie myself is one thing, but this seems less like wolf hunting/town preservation and more like a clean setup into me, especially after your explanation of why my lack of desire for survival does make a me-lynch not look that bad. That what you want out of this?

Besides, again, if you truly doubt this is a TvT interaction, why in hell would have you kept all this to yourself? I called you out on that, you said it was pointless, but now you're saying this might actually be a legit wolf read?

You're incoherent, so here you go

[Hateandhatred]

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

Its like a double bluff where "if i say im ok with dying maybe they won't kill me."

If you are actually a human here you are making it infuriating to properly read you and id almost rather just go against my wincon and have u die just for peace lf mind and to prevent shenanigans

I actually meant to also copy this but whatever.

But yeah, again, first you say you wanna keep your thoughts for yourself. Then you proceed to actually say everything, then you said it was because you didn't expect much of our interaction (but didn't actually address most of my logic and rebuttals) but changed your mind and wanted to hear people's thoughts, but then imply that our reaction isn't really all that townie and double down on leaving your vote on me? If you are town and legit think there is something about me that sounds wolfy, OF COURSE you would want everyone else to know. That's why I said your response was terrible, but now it's WAY worse.

[Hakulyte]

I think H&H is wrong on the whole experienced game sense stuff, but I think the effort here is genuinely town.

I believe he would have played this better if he was wolfing. It's a lot easier for me to simply assume he was town, but had the wrong idea.

Not everyone thinks like you and me.

[Hateandhatred]

our interraction* goddammit I can't english tonight

[FreezinIce]

Originally Posted by Hateandhatred

And you didn't address much of it, aside from "why are you suddenly on my case when you said you wouldn't" and "you shouldn't be cool with dying". You did make sure to not address my points at all though.



1: I have not hesitated to press people myself all game. I pressed bugkid, I pressed Haku, and I'm pressing you now. Literally all I didn't do is start trying to tell people to get their votes off me. And of course I know that, but again, you didn't address what I said about how anyone is -actually- going to prevent a mislynch in a logical manner, and this is certainly not going to happen with everyone not wanting the one person whose alignment they know (themselves) to get lynched. Someone will, and then it'll be that.

2: You don't need to tell me how to play the game, because I don't know your alignment. It's not like I'm going to play YOUR game without knowing that, I'd be the biggest fool ever. Yes I understand you might be saying that with the interest of town in play, but you're also not doing the same thing with what I'm actually saying.



It shouldn't even matter that I am a human. This is even moreso the wolf wincon lol.

What are these points you are referring to? Points about what? All ive seen happen is im calling you out for your quite frankly bizzare attitude and recieving some assurances that you know what your doing and if you die youll vomit up a reads list and this will somehow make everything ok

Let me make this as clear as i can for you so that there is no room for misunderstanding: i am not going to risk believing that anyone who says its ok for someone they know for a fact is human (aka themselves) to die is actually human. It is possible that your are human, but the chance of you being a wolf is high enough that i will not find a better case anywhere d1 and i would be a fool to vote elsewhere

I will vote you here, thunderdome and win if neccessary because in a situation where i have no info, i play the percents

[Hakulyte]

I think we should vote outside of you two and let PRs decide what to do about your slots if the flip indirectly help them solve you two.

[FreezinIce]

Hatred, Ithink you need to reread your posts again, you actually make no sense in a way that i think even you would understand upon reread.

Some of your posts use info learned later to criticize my posts from before than info was known

I appreciate that you are actually trying to fight now but your points never catch an actual wolf.

No wolf behaves like that, if i was a wolf here i would never publicly tie my fate to yours, advise you to fight back then mire myself in this situation. I would say almost nothing and definitely would be keeping my options open.

You are attacking the ideal of a wolf, not trying to find a wolf yourself and while i am also guilty of that to a degree, at the moment i feel like what i am taking offense to isnt too far from a possible flawed defense of a wolf so im willing to go out on a limb for it

[Hateandhatred]

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

What are these points you are referring to? Points about what? All ive seen happen is im calling you out for your quite frankly bizzare attitude and recieving some assurances that you know what your doing and if you die youll vomit up a reads list and this will somehow make everything ok

Someone will 100% die today. Nobody wants to, least of all the wolves because there's only 2 of them. Wanna call my bluff? sure, but again, I can't prove my towniness to anyone and no one can prove theirs to me. I can try to see who's best trying to win the game, but other than that, it's going to be a game of who screams and kicks the loudest? If people zone in on a townie in d0, what exactly do you want them to do? "it's not me, I swear"? I'm not gonna do that, it's completely pointless, yet you're extremely hung over that fact. I am trying to play the game though, but you're saying I'm basically leaving it all to everyone else, despite the fact that I've been very actively playing. And you're not addressing ANY of this. Of course I know my value as a living town, but proving that I'm not a valid target solely rests on me finding the better target (or answering things if people want, which I have been doing, but there's not much to go one because it's fucking d0).

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

Let me make this as clear as i can for you so that there is no room for misunderstanding: i am not going to risk believing that anyone who says its ok for someone they know for a fact is human (aka themselves) to die is actually human. It is possible that your are human, but the chance of you being a wolf is high enough that i will not find a better case anywhere d1 and i would be a fool to vote elsewhere

I will vote you here, thunderdome and win if neccessary because in a situation where i have no info, i play the percents

But here, you actually follow my own logic, so lol?

[FreezinIce]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

I think we should vote outside of you two and let PRs decide what to do about your slots if the flip indirectly help them solve you two.

Stop making sense I want a thunderdome

[Hakulyte]

I'll move to Shadow_God_10.

He has a decent amount of parity with Raeko/Storn. I prefer those odds to be investigated.

Not saying wolf, but this is definitely a space that should be more explored while I'm not around tomorrow.

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

Stop making sense I want a thunderdome

Just do it next phase after a bunch of night actions happen. I want more content, but I think we have enough for you two.

[FreezinIce]

Originally Posted by Hateandhatred

Someone will 100% die today. Nobody wants to, least of all the wolves because there's only 2 of them. Wanna call my bluff? sure, but again, I can't prove my towniness to anyone and no one can prove theirs to me. I can try to see who's best trying to win the game, but other than that, it's going to be a game of who screams and kicks the loudest? If people zone in on a townie in d0, what exactly do you want them to do? "it's not me, I swear"? I'm not gonna do that, it's completely pointless, yet you're extremely hung over that fact. I am trying to play the game though, but you're saying I'm basically leaving it all to everyone else, despite the fact that I've been very actively playing. And you're not addressing ANY of this. Of course I know my value as a living town, but proving that I'm not a valid target solely rests on me finding the better target (or answering things if people want, which I have been doing, but there's not much to go one because it's fucking d0).




But here, you actually follow my own logic, so lol?

Let me ask you a simple question, would all this have come out if i hadnt put the screws to you?

Do you think its better for the game in general for you to ploddle through the game unchallenged? Let us fight it out, let info spill out everywhere messily, then let other people draw their own conclusions. Like me or hate me im giving humans what they need: information. Even if i knew you were human for a fact i would still mostly do the same thing.

If people look at what you believe and your behavior and still think you are human, thats perfectly fine. Ive strengthened your position in the game which is good if your human. If they believe you are a wolf then we have a clear direction for a lynch. I win no matter the outcome here.

[Hateandhatred]

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

Hatred, Ithink you need to reread your posts again, you actually make no sense in a way that i think even you would understand upon reread.

Some of your posts use info learned later to criticize my posts from before than info was known

I appreciate that you are actually trying to fight now but your points never catch an actual wolf.

Look, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and carefully reread this entire conversation, but I'll do that tomorrow. I really don't think my logic isn't sound though, but maybe I didn't communicate it well. I also think my attacks on you are entirely justified here, and again, it's not like I wasn't doing it before, lol.

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

No wolf behaves like that, if i was a wolf here i would never publicly tie my fate to yours, advise you to fight back then mire myself in this situation. I would say almost nothing and definitely would be keeping my options open.

You literally said:

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

Like im 100% town here and im still having a very easy time seeing myself voting for you at eod and facing no consequences and feeling fine even if you flip town because as of right now im not convinced having someone with the survival skills of a opossum as town is worth the risk of you just possibly being a wolf.

How would you be tying your fate to mine if this is actually how you feel about it?

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

You are attacking the ideal of a wolf, not trying to find a wolf yourself and while i am also guilty of that to a degree, at the moment i feel like what i am taking offense to isnt too far from a possible flawed defense of a wolf so im willing to go out on a limb for it

I think you are backpedalling an immense amount right now

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

I think we should vote outside of you two and let PRs decide what to do about your slots if the flip indirectly help them solve you two.

Actually I think this is a decent strategy, but I would rather hear what the rest of the playerbase think of our interaction first.

[FreezinIce]

Well no point in staying on you now that ive tipped my hand

shadow god

Haku dont call this a sheep when i sus'd him first

[Hateandhatred]

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

Let me ask you a simple question, would all this have come out if i hadnt put the screws to you?

Why do you think I'm not trying to make myself look too townie when there's voting pressure against me? I obviously want situations like this to happen, I even invited people to do it when I first addressed the votes I got.

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

Do you think its better for the game in general for you to ploddle through the game unchallenged? Let us fight it out, let info spill out everywhere messily, then let other people draw their own conclusions. Like me or hate me im giving humans what they need: information. Even if i knew you were human for a fact i would still mostly do the same thing.

If people look at what you believe and your behavior and still think you are human, thats perfectly fine. Ive strengthened your position in the game which is good if your human. If they believe you are a wolf then we have a clear direction for a lynch. I win no matter the outcome here.

I don't think I'm moving from you today.

[FreezinIce]

Originally Posted by Hateandhatred

I think you are backpedalling an immense amount right now

Correct. I wanted you to squirm, and spill your guys a bit and now that i got what i wanted im walking it back