TWG XCIV: Old Blood

[Gun92]

Didn't even see your question Kraut, my bad. Everyone has already pegged me for what ever they have, that is what it is for the moment. I, personally, have little to no suspicion on anyone right now. Yes, my vote against V was purely a rage/reactionary vote with no substance to it what so ever. Me changing my vote isn't going to change how people perceive me in the game. If a majority of you feel that he is suspicious and warrants a lynch and I have nothing better to go on, sure, Ill change my vote, like I just did. Its a day phase to begin a game and I am not spectacular at reading people as evident of prior games so I have nothing to go off of. No one has really seemed different in their play styles to me, but the logic is someone has to die and you do what you can to make sure that person isn't you. If I do a poor job, then it is me and I deserve it, I not, then I live on to try and help the humans win the game.

[Vendetta21]

Originally Posted by Gun92

First off, calm down V. I didn't know keeping an open mind and trying to understands ones logic was a wolf like behavior. All I did was ask questions, not like I was condemning anyone to being a wolf. Ill vote for Zoshi, that is fine with me. I was just asking for clarity on your thought process OWA, that is all. Keep your votes on me, that is fine. I'm not asking for you to take them off nor do I have a reason to make you do so. All I wanted was clarification on some things.

no what is wolfy is being afraid of being accused of something for having an opinion

wolves don't like having opinions, because they know their opinions are lies, so they try not to have them so that they will be less likely to get caught having them after the fact.

the fact that you are so afraid of being accused of things makes me extremely suspicious of you, because i know that new wolves are extremely scared of being put in that position. they also have trouble handling the cognitive dissonance of having everything they say be a lie.

i have 7 hours to chose who i believe should die, and you are still not giving me any sense that you are not a wolf. you are tepid, scared, and making weak decisions following trends established well before you came to them, and only after being pushed very hard. you are still entirely reactionary to my accusations of you.

clarification? considering all options? we don't have time for that, someone must die today. i believe that someone should be you.

[Gun92]

7 hours is plenty of time for thinking my friend. I also just stated that someone has to die. I am not entirely sure how else to explain that I personally have found no ones play to be different than what I know them to do. You guys are having issues with Zoshi and James. I haven't played much with Zoshi so I don't quite get what everyone is getting at and that is probably because I half ass read everything. James is and has been a weak and flaky player from the word go. In every game I have played with him he has issues making up his mind, thinking for himself and sticking to his guns. If you want to eliminate a weak player from the start of the game, then you all have narrowed down the two weakest. Does it make one iota of difference in which one you all want to lynch? Maybe. Either way, you are eliminating a weak player.

That is what I have gotten from this thread so far. I know I am not suspicious of you, V, nor manti or owa. You guys are playing a game I expect you to play and you haven't deviated from anything you normally do. Sytho is playing how we all expect her to play and so is Vicca. If I am playing differently, then I guess I am. I don't want to die and quite frankly, I think I am a better player than both Zoshi and James. Its not that I am choosing to not have an opinion here, I just haven't seen anything that would cause me to formulate one that strikes me as people acting different. Ill own up to what ever you want me to.

Did my vote on you have any merit? No
Have I contributed anything useful to this thread/game? More than likely no.

I'm not really sure what you have accused me of so far that I haven't answered to the best of my abilities and if there are things I can answer for you, go ahead and ask and I will do my best.

[Vendetta21]

Originally Posted by DarkManticoreX2

V is quite obviously not going to die tonight!

Wai wut...

i just got what you were trying to say, by "tonight" i meant 6PM

i just realized 6PM is eastern time and not pacific so we have 4 fuckin' hours to kill someone

[Vendetta21]

gun can you see my frustration with you continuing to focus solely on attacks on yourself and simultaneously not contributing towards coming to a conclusion?

i appreciate your offering up who you believe to be human, that's something at least, but can you see the problem i have with you from the perspective of the other person voting for you

I'm not saying it isn't possible for anyone to be a wolf, but it seems like you're really pushing for everyone to keep that mindset. And if you were a wolf, obviously you would, probability favors you when everyone shares that mentality. Wouldn't it be more beneficial to try and set aside the least likely wolf players and work on the others?

you are a good kill, even if you are not a kill everyone can get passionate about, because after being targeted repeatedly you have become a calm and centered diplomat, and you currently aren't the sort of kill that wolves can hop in with a lynch mob on.

why should we kill someone besides you, when as you have said, everyone is behaving in ways that don't indicate any wolfiness? why should i give you an exception when you have been behaving wolfy?

currently your answer is that i shouldn't cut you a break, so okay i won't.

[Vendetta21]

actually gun, i really want you to comment on krauthammer's posts and behavior, that would satisfy me. try to be detailed.

[Gun92]

Give me a minute to read the thread again.

[Krauthammer]

Originally Posted by Vendetta21

how is that anything but readily apparent? why do you need to get more clarification from him?

also, how is that exact behavior you described that he is undertaking anything but extremely wolfy?

James May is currently on the chopping block, and you aren't voting for him, and you aren't applying significant pressure elsewhere. do you personally feel that 7 hours before deadline is a good time to dip your toes into the water?

these are questions i am personally directing towards you mr. krauthammer, because i want to know your answers to them.

Sorry for the tone, but if it were readily apparent, Vendy, I wouldn't have asked it directly. Isn't that readily apparent to you?

Okay, now your other questions. I said that Gun is not focusing on the game, and that needs to be corrected. And looks like it is on its way to being corrected! He has made much many posts now than before. Yes, they are answers to your own posts, but it also means that he is now paying attention to the game. But if not focusing on the game is "extremely wolfy behavior", then I'm afraid that there are too many wolves in the game, and sometimes even you and me would fit that very same behavior.

Yes, James isn't on the chopping block anymore, at least in the last voting chart. I'll admit I'm a bit lazy right now and I'm not going back. And it is my very own opinion, but I feel that I have applied pressure on the right points. After all, I can say that I pressured Zoshi to give at least more reasoning before voting, which he ended doing. Yes, it was almost clearly a way to give me satisfaction, as his "is it better now, Kraut?" (paraphrasing) line indicates, but he still did it. And I also pressured James, although the fact that he is busy kinda makes it less impressive, as he wasn't even here.

As I see it, you and me have different concept of "pressuring". Maaaaaybe you're right and I didn't apply significant pressure, but I am pressuring. Maybe your concept of significant pressure is what you're doing to Gun right now, and in that case, you're right! I'm not doing significant pressure. But that is your play style, and this is mine. Scolding for not applying whatever is your concept if significant pressure is, in lack of another word, pointless.

Yes, there are six and half hours before Day ends. I reckon that. However, you criticize me for just "dipping my toes in water". So tell me, Vendetta, if that is what you have against me, then what about other players that have done equal or less things that I have done? (in my concept). I mean TPS, meno, Syhto, Viccica, freskysnots, JRodd and Manti? We're in the same situation.

But I reckon that right now I feel somewhat nervous about my own actions. I have no decisive stuff, the two players I had voted countered my question, Gun just confirmed my doubts, and the actual vote I have is, at best, a safety.

Any other question, Vendetta?

Also people, it is better if one uses red bold votes, just to make life easier for the host. Just a suggestion!

[Gun92]

Ok, from the half dozen or so posts Kraut has made, he has only made two of substance but neither contained much info in the way of being productive. His first post was merely echoing sentiments about the roles possible in the game that others had already gone over in their posts, offering nothing new or beneficial to the thread. His next few posts were all votes, none of which had anything really solid on and half of them were poking at someone to talk more in the thread (Zoshi and James). He as switched votes with as much frequency as anyone in this game which tells me he has no real idea who to vote for or what to go off of. If I am correct and I was really just reading fast, he has voted for James, Sytho and Freaky...I may be missing one there, not sure.

I initially figured that the vote on James was a probing vote in order to get people to talk or get James to talk. When he switched his vote to Sytho, it seemed like he almost had an idea of something because of what James had said but he also claimed to be unsure of his choice due to whether or not this was how she played the game. In his last vote switch to freaky, I don't remember the exact reason as to why he switched but that was also his second post of substance once again asking for James to speak and asking me that question.

All of this is indicative to how he as played previous games and the simple fact that he has bounced around votes so often and mainly without reason strikes me as his normal play style. He could be a confused ass human who has no idea who to side with at the time or he could be a wolf who is looking for a simple way to jump on board with a vote but who he has voted for outside of James doesn't make sense in that regard. Why vote for two people who have had one or two votes for them in the game thus far and not offer any insight as to the reason why?

I think he is a human who is just flailing about right now trying to sound smart and make it seem like he knows what he is doing. If he is a wolf, I think he is doing a terrible job.

[Vendetta21]

What about them? I am trying to be narrow and refining I do not have time to comment and obsess over everything, only the most suspicious persons. Currently you and gun. I know your opinion of gun, now I want to know his opinion of you.

You go ahead and play whack-a-mole while I sit on the hill trying to stop my heartbeat from moving the reticle.

[Krauthammer]

Originally Posted by Vendetta21

You go ahead and play whack-a-mole while I sit on the hill trying to stop my heartbeat from moving the reticle.

Hmmmmmm...the following post can be considered both "game related" and "not related". It is up to every player. Just warning.

Okay, as I see it, what this conversation (and Gun's latest post) has taught me, is that we have two flaws in our play styles, which needs to be corrected. I, on one side, am obsessed on trying to sound like I know what I'm doing, something that I do subconsciously on every game I have played recently. And...I'll have to admit...I don't know what I'm doing right now. The lack of the usual style of the game has made this much harder. This thread has replaced my method of talking...normally this conversation you and I would happen on PM, as you don't get on AIM. So I'm going around, trying to orientate myself. I admit it. I'm playing around, in a similar way to playing Whac-a-Mole. Thank you for your criticism.

And you...your flaw seems to be that you build a metaphorical wall on the game, to force yourself to focus on concrete players. I understand your suspicion on Gun and on me. I do. But focusing on two trees won't allow you to see the forest. Go ahead, focus on us, but don't let it forget that the very same reasoning you apply to me, or to him, can also be applied to other people. And if that happens...then that reasoning needs to be refined, until it is something specific, something that nobody can see and point "but that other player does the same thing!".

You're a great player, Vendetta, and I'm average at best, but you and I seem to trust too much on our own abilities...too often. And not just on this game. It has happened in almost every game we have played together. This isn't the best place to say it, but...it is the only place one can. After all...outside communication is not allowed. And if I waited to the end of the game, it is possible I'll have forgotten what I wanted to say.

Sorry for the...post. It is something I felt that I thought was something that would be...important for you and me. I mean it to try to be...eh...a critique, and I hope you don't get offended by it, or you take it personally. If you do, then I'm sorry. Offending you wasn't my intention.

[freakysnots]

Since day is ending in 3 hours, it is the best option to lynch the person with the most votes effective immediately.

[freakysnots]

Only wolves do not want someone lynched this phase, and that is exactly what would happen if more confusion and indecisiveness continues. We all need to agree that if an insta is not imminent prior to the day phase ending, the person with the most votes should receive an insta.

[Krauthammer]

Sounds fair, somewhat. I think that gathering opinions the next 45 minutes is a good idea, though.

These is the actual votes. Maybe I'm wrong, though

VOTECOUNT

zoshi (5): freakysnots, OWA, syhto, viccica, Gun
syhto (2): james, Krauthammer
james (1): meno
kraut (1): jrodd
OWA (2): TPS, zoshi
Gun (1): Vendetta
TPS (1): Manti


2 votes from lynch

[DarkManticoreX2]

GJ killing yourself kraut

[freakysnots]

modkill woo

[freakysnots]

too bad this doesnt tell us anything useful. i would have preferred if zoshi died

[freakysnots]

pretty harsh ruling on this one though. since copy paste automatically copies over the font cuz of his browser. he didn't do it on purpose. i hope fojar is reasonable

[DarkManticoreX2]

Originally Posted by freakysnots

pretty harsh ruling on this one though. since copy paste automatically copies over the font cuz of his browser. he didn't do it on purpose. i hope fojar is reasonable

How do you know what his browser does? Copy paste from the actual wording wouldn't copy over formatting, only quoting and not deleting the color tags would have.

[freakysnots]

because im a web developer and knows how browsers work. new versions of firefox does this while chrome doesnt.