Hasn't been a day since the new pope was elected and we already have to witness this.

[Reincarnate]

Why is anyone surprised? Being a bigot is practically a prerequisite.

[devonin]

I guess it's just sad to see what passes for "This one is exceptionally humble, caring and compassionate" with the papacy these days.

Oh for John XXIII to come back again.

[popsicle_3000]

Why is it always thought that not agreeing w/ homosexuality = homophobe??
just an fyi, it =/= homophobia...

Originally Posted by devonin

If the goal of the Devil was to destroy the church and turn people away, the best thing he could do would be to be responsible for the church backlash AGAINST gay marriage etc, not the movement FOR it.

sorry, nope. God made it clear that homosexuality is wrong. The devil's purpose is to separate people from God, thus, homosexuality does that.

Originally Posted by C.I.A.

People who are disgusted by any type of sexual behavior whether it be homo or hetero are usually disgusted with themselves too. It's called being repressed.

lol what?

Originally Posted by Mollocephalus

I don't really buy the theory that church is unchanging and will fade into oblivion like that; it's a documented fact that church clings on its values as long as it can, however, when they are not realistically usable anymore in the society, it will just move on like nothing happened.

thing is the values come from something greater than the physical organization called the church. so the right/wrong doesn't come from the church, but from God. and those don't change with time

[Nullifidian]

Why do I feel this is all one massive troll

[Mollocephalus]

Originally Posted by popsicle_3000

Thing is the values come from something greater than the physical organization called the church. So the right/wrong doesn't come from the church, but from God. And those don't change with time

They definitely do change, as the bible has been revised and changed countless times during the centuries. Even if it was truly the word of an hypotetical god, it has been compromised. It has been proved wrong in many aspects. Anyone who can read it critically can understand that there is nothing to learn from the demented dissertions of theologists from millenniums ago that we cannot achieve through critical thinking.

Another thing to consider is, if an ideology has been brought through the centuries by an organization which has supported some of the most vicious crimes against humanity, i would be rather surprised if the ideology they have been promoting has ever been any good.

Concluding this: values don't come from God. Religious organizations decide which values to enforce and which to leave alone, depending on what they think is more convenient for the organization. And when a value becomes grossly outdated, they just dismiss it. Don't forget that slavery is considered perfectly fine in the bible.

[devonin]

Originally Posted by popsicle_3000

sorry, nope. God made it clear that homosexuality is wrong. The devil's purpose is to separate people from God, thus, homosexuality does that.

The church backlash against gay rights has lost the church WAY more followers than the movement for gay rights existing has. There being gays in the world doesn't make people stop being catholics. Seeing the church stomp all over human rights and basic dignity in the name of morality stops people being catholics.

If the devil's goal is to drive people away from the church, the aspect that has been MOST effective at doing so would be the one the devil was responsible for. Unless you think God is better at driving Catholics away from the church than Satan is.

[Choofers]

Originally Posted by popsicle_3000

Why is it always thought that not agreeing w/ homosexuality = homophobe??
just an fyi, it =/= homophobia...



sorry, nope. God made it clear that homosexuality is wrong. The devil's purpose is to separate people from God, thus, homosexuality does that.



lol what?



thing is the values come from something greater than the physical organization called the church. so the right/wrong doesn't come from the church, but from God. and those don't change with time

are you.... dumb?

[popsicle_3000]

Originally Posted by Mollocephalus

It has been proved wrong in many aspects.

such as?

Originally Posted by devonin

The church backlash against gay rights has lost the church WAY more followers than the movement for gay rights existing has.

but why should the church compromise on something that is clearly labelled as wrong in the bible?
sure, many people forget the part about how God loves EVERYONE, gays included, and so should we. pity is that humans suck in many ways, and those failings drive people away from God. that's a result of the fallibility of the human race.

edit: choofers, care to explain?

[devonin]

but why should the church compromise on something that is clearly labelled as wrong in the bible?

So just so we're clear. You're upset that the church compromised on slavery? On women being property? On stoning people in the street? On wearing mixed fabrics?

[Izzy]

Originally Posted by popsicle_3000

but why should the church compromise on something that is clearly labelled as wrong in the bible?

Picking and choosing beliefs to fit the specific moment is the basis of the religion.

[popsicle_3000]

Originally Posted by devonin

So just so we're clear. You're upset that the church compromised on slavery? On women being property? On stoning people in the street? On wearing mixed fabrics?

not sure how that's related...
those things either refer to the old law in the bible, or about middle-eastern culture at the time

[devonin]

They refer to things clearly stated in the bible that were changed.

Slavery is right there in the new testament too. Jesus even addressed slaves directly to tell them to serve their masters on earth as loyally as they serve God in heaven.

So yeah.

[Nullifidian]

Originally Posted by popsicle_3000

Why is it always thought that not agreeing w/ homosexuality = homophobe??
just an fyi, it =/= homophobia...

Homophobia encompasses a range of negative attitudes and feelings toward homosexuality or people who are identified or perceived as being lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender (LGBT). It can be expressed as antipathy, contempt, prejudice, aversion, or hatred, and may be based on irrational fear.
Homophobia is observable in critical and hostile behavior such as discrimination and violence on the basis of sexual orientations that are non-heterosexual.

And you mean to tell me that discriminating homosexuality is not homophobia? Because that's what they're doing. Discriminating homosexuality.

Originally Posted by popsicle_3000

sorry, nope. God made it clear that homosexuality is wrong. The devil's purpose is to separate people from God, thus, homosexuality does that.

thing is the values come from something greater than the physical organization called the church. so the right/wrong doesn't come from the church, but from God. and those don't change with time

How.. what.. why.. I don't even..
What even makes you think there is a god? What even makes you think that those words of "homosexuality is wrong" aren't actually someone's ignorance and distaste towards homosexuality, not god's words? How do you know these (completely bigoted) values came from god, and not from stubborn old men in attires? You make such gigantic logic leaps there is no way you can actually believe this.

[DarknessXoXLight]

Originally Posted by popsicle_3000

sorry, nope. God made it clear that homosexuality is wrong. The devil's purpose is to separate people from God, thus, homosexuality does that.

I... what? Like what?

[Garquillex]

Originally Posted by devonin

Your posts were to try and invoke discussion, but you had no will to enter such a discussion? Why would you try to invoke discussion when you weren't intending to actually discuss?

Hey, this is totally valid on its own. I've done it myself and it can work out fine.

I did it because I wanted to see it discussed, but lacked the energy, motivation, or had too many conflicting thoughts to attempt to write them out coherently.

[bmah]

As much as I might disagree with popsicle's statement, there's no need to be insulting about it, ty very much.

[kommisar]

knew this would turn into religion debatez


though if there's one thing medieval beliefs are good at doing is convincing people never to change their minds

[adlp]

good thing the pope doesnt speak for all of religion right guys

[kommisar]

he makes 1.2 billion people look bad though

[Reincarnate]

Originally Posted by popsicle_3000

Why is it always thought that not agreeing w/ homosexuality = homophobe??
just an fyi, it =/= homophobia...

Because it is...
There's no (strong) rational argument for denying homosexual people equal civil rights. There are rational arguments but they're extraordinarily weak.

Originally Posted by popsicle_3000

sorry, nope. God made it clear that homosexuality is wrong. The devil's purpose is to separate people from God, thus, homosexuality does that.

I am going to assume you misspoke, because no human should be able to say this without immediately recoiling with the words, "Wow, that was absurdly stupid and that came out wrong. What I really meant was..."

Originally Posted by popsicle_3000

thing is the values come from something greater than the physical organization called the church. so the right/wrong doesn't come from the church, but from God. and those don't change with time

People do not get their values from the Bible/God/etc. There's no way you can make a rational/consistent argument for this, btw. It's a losing position no matter how far you take it.