TWG Turbo 39: Timing Error [POSTGAME]

[FreezinIce]

TWG Turbo 39: Timing Error

9 to 12 Players (New roles will be added if more than 11 people sign up)
Open Setup (Semi-Open with 11+ players)

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The theme of this game is "Delay." Town roles are offensive in nature and work based on delayed effects. Wolf roles are delayed as well as potentially attack town public information.

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24 hour days/24 hour nights: Days and nights start at 11PM Server time and end at 11pm Server time the next day.
Phantoms OFF
Cardflips VARIABLE [Normally Full Role Flip but exceptions can occur]
KitB ON
Insta ON
Nighttalk OFF
OoTC OFF
Wolfchat is ON ALL THE TIME
Sleep vote is ON (Town can vote to sleep. Sleep must be greater than 50% of the total cast votes. If sleep ties with any player, the sleep vote will always lose)

Wolves must kill every night, failure to do so randomizes the kill. All other night actions are not randomized.

ATTENTION: 5 Post minimum per phase, failure to meet this post count risks modkill by the host

SPECIAL RULES INVOLVING WOLF WINS BY PARITY, READ ROLE INFORMATION CAREFULLY.

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Town roles:

1 Motion Sensitive Seer
1 Almost-Oneshot Poisonous Vigilante

5 Vanilla Town

Wolf Roles:

1 Malice Wolf
1 Poison Fruit Vendor Wolf

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Motion Sensitive Seer: Can choose one player to color seer each night. If the target has a night action that will produce a result that night phase, then you will receive a color seer result at the end of that night. Otherwise, you will receive a result at the end of the next night.



Almost-Oneshot Poisonous Vigilante:During the night, you can send a oneshot poisonous kill (Poison kills at the end of the following night. If the initial action is successful, it will always kill even if you die or are roleblocked later). If this poison vigi results in a wolf death, the next night you may send another poison kill.


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Malice Wolf: If you make the factional night kill, you can choose for it to be delayed. If you do, you will seer green that night and the night kill will execute at the end of the following night instead (This does not affect the kill you would normally get the following night). When this happens, the next day role information of the killed player will be shared privately with the wolf team but hidden from the players in the thread.


Poison Fruit Vendor Wolf: Once each night, you may send a player a poisoned fruit. (The player is informed when they receive it). As long as a living town player has a fruit you have given them, the wolf team can win by parity even with a pending poison kill targeting one of their members. Otherwise, the poison kill would resolve first and play would continue. The first time a player receives a poisoned fruit, they will be roleblocked the following night.

If a single player receives 3 poisoned fruits, the host will post a picture of the most disgusting fruit (personal opinion) in the thread at the start of the following day.

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Player Roles

1. Mellonxcollie - Poison Fruit Vendor Wolf
2. Roundbox
3. Zenith
4. leetic - Motion Sensitive Seer
5. Botchi246
6. MixMasterLar - Malice Wolf
7. SubaruPoptart
8. Arp!
9. thesunfan - poison vigi
—----

Replacements:

1. star-crossed
2. Botchi246

TOWN WINS!

[FreezinIce]

Night 1 actions:

Leetic seered Nakah and got no result (He will get a green result at the end of N2)

Sunfan sent a poison kill on Arp

Mello sent a poison blueberry to Sunfan which will roleblock him next phase

MML sent the kill for Subaru

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Night 2 actions:

Leetic seers Raeko

Raeko gives a poison plum to Sunfan which will do nothing since he's already been roleblocked.

MML queues a delayed kill on Roundbox

At the end of the night, leetic receives 2 seering results (Botchi green and instant Raeko red due to her sending a fruit)

======

Night 3 actions:

leetic seers Roundbox

MML kills Botchi

[FreezinIce]

Chats:

Deadchat: https://discord.gg/EFGRuRADD

Wolf chat: https://discord.gg/5QKTSmsHR

MVP: SubaruPoptart

Host Eternal Gratitude Award: Botchi

Host thoughts:

Very quick thoughts since I'm about to start driving somewhere. Game was kind of a rollercoaster. Wolves started in a very strong position after the first day. Miscommunication during Night 2 however contributed to some absolutely disasterous night action choices that made it almost impossible for them to win. At the same time town was pretty weak early on but circled the wagons later on and didn't let the game slip away, which is something I've definitely seen before so it wasn't out of the question, despite the game seeming open and shut near the end.

I don't think anyone gets MVP this game. From my point of view everyone made mistakes and nobody was clearly playing better than anyone else. My personal MVP (not game related) was Botchi for replacing in at a great time and saving me from having to modkill in a 9 player game where everyone confirmed they could play beforehand.


Thank you botchi!

[the sun fan]

THANK YOU BOTCHI

honestly like
hopecaster for MVP
got universally townread and took a fat PR bullet
that ended up being huge

I think I could play werewolf for 100 years and not see a 9 player setup where sleeping at 7 is mechanically correct

if this setup gets run again, it should probably have the possibility of wolves blocking the town poisoner's poison if it is used on n1

WHY DID I GET GIVEN A FRUIT ON n2 SOMEONE PLEASE HELP ME WHAT THE HECK WAS THAT

[the sun fan]

I'll forever remember this as the game that
BOTCHI subbed in
BOTCHI decompressed
town won the game
ezclap

[FreezinIce]

The decompression talk lead to some of the hardest laughing I've done in a while.

[FreezinIce]

And I guess I could get behind Subaru for MVP, to be honest I wasn't paying that much attention to him near the end

[leetic]

Originally Posted by mellon_collie

emphasis mine

she/her are not dirty words

Just going to deal with this quickly because I don't want to make a big deal about this. The reason I got upset with this post is, regardless of what your intentions were here, this was argued in bad faith. You cherrypicked one example of me using "he", when if you actually bothered to ctrl+f through my ISO you would easily find examples of me calling you she and the guys they. I do not appreciate the insinuation that I am somehow being sexist, especially when as an enby I've been called far worse things and have dealt with harassment over my gender identity from several different people (not in mafia spaces fortunately but in other parts of the internet).

With that out of the way, I know some people are definitely upset with the way I played this but you can't argue with the results. Obviously, I didn't play the same way I would've if I was VT because if I got myself too townread I would be likely to be killed, so staying in the middle of the PoE was too my benefit. I was perhaps a bit loose with some of my early game reads, and I would have played around Zenith differently at EoD if I was VT (though nobody pushed me for that surprisingly enough). I don't think my seer targets were too far outside seer meta, though people seemed to be unable to predict my actions. Arp was not a good choice to seer because one as the CW they were likely to be poisoned, two they obviously weren't blue else they would have claimed and I would be more likely to get results N1 on someone who could be blue, and three as a general rule of thumb you want to seer in the middle of the PoE rather than the bottom and as an inactive Nakah was null to everyone. Raeko was also the obvious choice N2 based on that principle, theoretically I wanted to comb the thread over to see which pairing of Raeko/MML/Roundbox was most unlikely and seer the remainder, though I figured that Raeko would still be the best pick regardless. The choice between MML/roundbox D3 was just arbitrary as I was fully expecting to be dead by then, but unknown to me the game was already locked.

Yeah, it was a messy game for town, half the town slots weren't really pushing anywhere or doing any analysis and I don't even blame people for that given that it was difficult to predict when the game would start due to how long games take to fill and then the fact that everyone has to be confirmed after that (I myself had issues with my laptop as I stated). But I still think this is an example of the wolfteam getting too complacent. Besides the mechanical fuckups if you aren't prepared for the person you intend to push digging themselves out of the PoE then you don't have a reliable strategy and wolves should have been aware that the seer had the potential to completely flip the game around. Still, I did appreciate the effort from the wolves and MML did a solid job of replicating their town meta from what I can remember.

As for town, Subaru was definitely solid, botchi deserves some credit for catching on to MML before anyone else took it seriously, and despite a few hiccups sunfan did pull through in the end. There were a couple of times where I did get upset but overall I do think this was a solid game from me. And I don't usually OMGUS but maybe I should, considering that wolves seem to have a tendency to go after me for spurious reasons (pretty much the entire wolfteam from my last game basically outed themselves in this manner).

[mellon_collie]

Originally Posted by leetic

Just going to deal with this quickly because I don't want to make a big deal about this. The reason I got upset with this post is, regardless of what your intentions were here, this was argued in bad faith. You cherrypicked one example of me using "he", when if you actually bothered to ctrl+f through my ISO you would easily find examples of me calling you she and the guys they. I do not appreciate the insinuation that I am somehow being sexist, especially when as an enby I've been called far worse things and have dealt with harassment over my gender identity from several different people (not in mafia spaces fortunately but in other parts of the internet).

it wasn't supposed to be an argument!!! jesus christ. Just because it happened in a werewolf game does not mean it needs to turn into an argument. Just say "sorry, I'll try to remember not to do it again" and move on

The reason why I only said that and not anything else is because I was a wolf with a red seer check on me and I wasn't about to say anything about the actual game. but I was still alive to speak for myself about the pronoun thing.

I really don't care how many times you did it, one example is enough, I don't like being called they once twice or any amount of times so I don't even know why you STILL just can't say sorry won't do it again

Please examine your response to this situation.... telling a woman who asked not to be misgendered that you haven't experienced any sexism in mafia spaces while also not apologizing at all

[botchi246]

Dang! What a game. That was super fun. Im sorry for my lack of serious activity, but id like to believe I helped town!
Leetic you were in the captains chair from the beginning I feel like.
Im sorry Arp for focusing you, but I think I should have been focusing mml a hair more.

Thanks for letting me replace. I had a great time!
Any time I play with the suntan, I feel like I get nice and comfy in his pocket

[botchi246]

Sunfan dammit

[T-Force]

Well that was fun.

[star-crossed]

The timing didn't work out for me to actually play this one which is sad because I am nostalgic for TWG. Can't believe my profile says it's been 8 years. I did read most of this game. RNG loves making raeko a wolf fruit vendor I guess. My new look is T-Force's fault.

I get that it must have been baffling for Zenith to be accused in the way that Zenith was on D0 but also think he might not have gotten voted off if he spent more time talking about things other than defending himself from that, if that makes sense? Maybe he just had to pay the price in this one for getting off the hook too many times as a wolf though.

I was also not really agreeing when reading along with the narrative that the Subaru kill primarily was to maintain the status quo, because in my mind the wolves should be trying to take out special roles first and foremost, but the actual wolf chat suggests that that narrative was basically right. Uhh...I wonder if the wolves regret not focusing more on suspected special roles or not though?

I tend to argue against defaulting to inactive kills D0 on the basis that I feel it makes the pro-inactive killers harder to read. This happens to be my first time seeing Lar be a wolf and I think Lar did a particularly good job D0 of emulating his town style in general. But between that aspect and the fact that both wolves were active here on D0, from a results-oriented standpoint, it kind of confirms my concerns on this issue. A more situational approach is ideal, in my opinion. I am sure this debate will continue forever.

TWG 210 when? Don't know if raeko or roundbox would want to maybe host one if they are not playing together currently, even though raeko hosted 209? Turbos always make me hate myself due to time zones and my style.

[mellon_collie]

Originally Posted by the sun fan

THANK YOU BOTCHI

honestly like
hopecaster for MVP
got universally townread and took a fat PR bullet
that ended up being huge

I think I could play werewolf for 100 years and not see a 9 player setup where sleeping at 7 is mechanically correct

if this setup gets run again, it should probably have the possibility of wolves blocking the town poisoner's poison if it is used on n1

WHY DID I GET GIVEN A FRUIT ON n2 SOMEONE PLEASE HELP ME WHAT THE HECK WAS THAT

I THOUGHT LAR WAS GOING TO KILL LEETIC

I WAS GOING FOR THE HATTRICK FRUITS TO GET THE PICTURE

I legit sent that fruit from an aisle at Walmart while I was out without roundbox for like 30 minutes, buying beer before we watched Survivor which we had been planning to watch on Friday night

I'd had a chance to talk a bit with Lar earlier and we had made a plan to kill leetic and fruit you, we'd spitballed a bunch of other crazy plans but that was the most sensical one and the one we landed on so I sent my fruit before Lar sent the kill cause it was convenient for me to do it at Walmart

then when I checked the wolf chat in the like 3 minutes I had Survivor paused and roundbox was taking the dog for a pee, I was extremely distracted and had been drinking (but I can't even blame the alcohol, it was maybe 10% that) it was 90% feeling flustered and rushed because roundbox was around

tbh it was really not fun trying to manage playing around roundbox, when he was at work it was fine but whenever we were both home it was not fine lol

It's just really hard to get into the wolf mindset when a townie is in the same freaking room as you all the time and you're trying not to let him know. And he's also your husband and knows how you play werewolf so if you're playing too much or looking at the thread too much that's a tell to him. I'm also not the type of person who is always on my phone so being on my phone all the time instead of my PC would have also been a tell to him. And we live in an apartment where my PC is in the living room lol. So it's a whole other game of "hide what you're doing IRL" and that game sucks

Originally Posted by star-crossed

TWG 210 when? Don't know if raeko or roundbox would want to maybe host one if they are not playing together currently, even though raeko hosted 209? Turbos always make me hate myself due to time zones and my style.

Roundbox has said he will host the next one

[_Zenith_]

Originally Posted by star-crossed

I get that it must have been baffling for Zenith to be accused in the way that Zenith was on D0 but also think he might not have gotten voted off if he spent more time talking about things other than defending himself from that, if that makes sense? Maybe he just had to pay the price in this one for getting off the hook too many times as a wolf though.

It wasn't baffling it was straight up nonsensical to angleshoot like that. It was a master class in becoming comfbiased. Thankfully everyone else that voted for me there didn't believe it (Leetic and I were crossed, MML made the opportunistic vote, and who tf knows why Arp/Round decided to vote me.

You're not wrong though, it probably was karma catching up for surviving similar situations as a wolf which happens frequently to me. I'm definitely not mad or upset about actually getting mislynched there as I felt it's something that helped the game move forward.

[mellon_collie]

also I mean, Lar killed botchi instead of either of the 2 confirmed blues at the end, what does that say??

BOTCHI MVP

[MixMasterLar]

To The Players:

Thoughts on the game in wolfhat, which I'm sure when I check will be littered with mockery but maybe I deserve that. Knew Leetic was the PR but was so confident that he would Seer me I was going to keep him alive, kill Round later and then just Bully Leetic the whole phase until he outed himself. That would have made Sun Fan and Round (at least) tinfoil the whole "with the delayed kill we can only trust the N1 check etc etc" but it isn't TownLar without some sort of drama and I was sure I could get out of it. Leetic seering Raeko fucked it all the hell.

The final kill was between SunFan or Botchi and the logic was thus: Could I get a game where Botchi just never checks in and force a KITB with the added fantasy of watching Leetic curse and swear for 24 hours about inactives or could I have a game where SunFan drinks both the win glasses in front of him and just idk forgets math. I truly didn't think I could get either and deadass spent yesterday on the bridge holding a sign and contemplating which one to do. I decided to kill Botchi not really believing SunFan would drop the ball that bad but figuring it would be the most fun of two losing strats. Of course, being an hour late fucked that over as well.

Leetic was never in question because his flip results would be too much and honestly I would not put SunFan through a possible 24 hours of inactive torture like that. I also do not like Leetic's attitude this game at all; regardless of alignment I really, truly mean everything I said that your play is abysmal and your role is what carried you. Well, that and being slightly less predictable then I thought, to give credit where it's due.

Originally Posted by the sun fan

THANK YOU BOTCHI
WHY DID I GET GIVEN A FRUIT ON n2 SOMEONE PLEASE HELP ME WHAT THE HECK WAS THAT

See Wolfchat, but I was going to have her send it to me or send you a mangosteen. I think that would have allowed you to see it was a gas since mechanically it was sort of already serving it's purpose (I wanted Leetic to check me, see above) and it didn't matter.

Originally Posted by star-crossed

My new look is T-Force's fault.

No joke I thought "Oh T Force was reading" when I saw your post

Originally Posted by mellon_collie

also I mean, Lar killed botchi instead of either of the 2 confirmed blues at the end, what does that say??

BOTCHI MVP

I agree

[botchi246]

Oh Lar! I was ready to get something going on you, but there was just so much excitement everywhere else. Plus, I was having great trouble putting my thoughts together.

Lar you played well.
Raeko, you were hampered by irl play. I understand that. The role assignment really got yall twisted heehee.

Good stuff regardless

[MixMasterLar]

To the host

Nakah should have 100% been NK there and while I did try to angle shoot to our advantage that he wasn't, on principle I do not think an exception should have been made. I do not blame us losing for him staying around (We fucked up. That's why we lost) but I am not going to keep signing up for games on a site with inactivity problems when I can't trust the rules to curb that problem being enforced. If I had a shred of belief that was in the cards I would have told Raeko no

[FreezinIce]

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar

The the host

Nakah should have 100% been NK there and while I did try to angle shoot to our advantage that he wasn't, on principle I do not think an exception should have been made. I do not blame us losing for it staying around (We fucked up. That's why we lost) but I am not going to keep signing up for games on a site with inactivity problems when I can't trust the rules to curb that problem being enforced. If I had a shred of belief that was in the cards I would have told Raeko no

Sorry, I understand the frustration. I felt kind of pressed because modkilling in a 9 player game just throws things out of whack. But I should've known that not doing it would also cause issues, especially since people were counting on me to enforce a minimum post count.

The players should not have to angle shoot around if the host will modkill or not, that should be something that is never in question. Next time I host it will not be ambiguous at all and there will be no bending the rules. Thanks for the criticism on this, truly.