Religion is government

[Dinglesberry]

Re: Religion is government

Religion to me is the RULES, RITUALS, and ROUTINES, you attach your BELIEFs to to help you to believe in FREEDOM, LIBERATION, and also in the pursuit of happiness. The energy that moves is power.

nothing is wrong with having something to motivate you, some people need something to do that and some don't, like believe what you want

the only issue that ever arises from religion is when religion tries to force other people to change their ways or how they are

edit: I don't know that much about American stuff but isn't there literally a part of the bill of rights that says there should be "a separation of church and state"

[MixMasterLar]

Re: Religion is government

edit: I don't know that much about American stuff but isn't there literally a part of the bill of rights that says there should be "a separation of church and state"

No, but most Americans believe that too. The First Amendment --

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

-- is more protecting religions from the government persecuting or even embracing/abusing the church; then the amendment follows it up with "Also while you're at it just don't fuck with what people say and do if it doesn't involve violence". The "Separation of Church and State" bit is credited to Thomas Jefferson who reportedly used the catch phrase to hype it's inclusion.

People argue that it should go both ways but considering that most of the Founding Fathers where religious to some degree I think it's fairly obvious it was never intended to prevent religious principles from making it's way to Congress, although I would personally support that reading.

[Dinglesberry]

Re: Religion is government

is more protecting religions from the government persecuting or even embracing/abusing the church; then the amendment follows it up with "Also while you're at it just don't fuck with what people say and do if it doesn't involve violence". The "Separation of Church and State" bit is credited to Thomas Jefferson who reportedly used the catch phrase to hype it's inclusion.

That makes sense, as a canuck my impression has always been thinking that it meant "we shouldn't factor in religious things when we make rules and changes to the government etc", but I guess it makes sense that its that the government shouldn't mess with religion... idk that seems pretty wonky to me not gonna lie

Even so though, if that is the case, then the converse should also be true, like if state → religion, then religion → state should also be the case (→ meaning affecting or influencing them)

[Tarlis]

Re: Religion is government

Well the thing is for me is that Religion should be more like a belief system for your own energy of being more than just something collectively handled.

[Dinglesberry]

Re: Religion is government

Well the thing is for me is that Religion should be more like a belief system for your own energy of being more than just something collectively handled.

"just something collectively handled."

thats literally what it is...

[Tarlis]

Re: Religion is government

I was coming from a metaphysical perception.

[Dinglesberry]

Re: Religion is government

I was coming from a metaphysical perception.

what

[V-Ormix]

Re: Religion is government

It's wild to think how much of what's "believed" has or will manifest simply out of our perceptions being morphed from subliminal means - so weather some thing is true or not doesn't mean it won't become true in another sense :v

[flashflash account]

Re: Religion is government

Baba is You

[Tarlis]

Re: Religion is government

basically, the way they use religion is a form of personal desecration, or grouping kind.

[AdamDX]

Re: Religion is government

Finally someone else said it! If you look at a bunch of religions, it basically gives guidelines on how to create a basic society, you have rules that create social cohesion like "Don't steal or kill" type of stuff. The reason why Religion looks like Government, is because it probably is a primitive form of government before we had global / instantaneous communication over long distances. It was a way to control the masses and get them to submit to a higher power (the government or nation through God).

[DaBackpack]

Re: Religion is government

While trying to imagine what a form of governance/social system that's not geographically based but value based would look like, I realized it would look exactly like religion.

"Governance" and "social system" are not the same.

Religion forms the basis of many (arguably, most) value systems across space and time. That's just true. In fact, religion can be the most effective and efficient way to codify rules and traditions, and historically can be said to aid in the survival of the human race. You don't need to to justify rules with logic, reasoning, or the scientific method, which allows the formation of stable societal formations fairly quickly.

"Hey guys, new rules just dropped. Dont kill, don't cheat, don't steal."
"Why?"
"Jimmy- you know, the fishmonger- knows a guy named Moses. Anyway, Jimmy told me that Moses climbed Mount Sinai and God spoke to him and handed down some rules that we gotta follow. Something about a covenant, or Commandments, or something. Oh yeah, also, no golden cows. That REALLY pissed off God."
"Oh, okay. I WAS gonna cheat on my bitch wife but if God says not to, then..."

----‐--------------------------------

Now, let's look at "governance."

A value system can, theoretically, form the basis of a self-governing social formation. This is one of the bases behind many Anarchist schools of thought, e.g. Anarcho-communism ("ancom"). The problem is that the rules have to be ENFORCED somehow. In the Abrahamic religions, that role was filled by God. "If you don't follow these rules, you will be punished." This, naturally, leads to Theocratic regimes, which are necessarily hierarchically organized. After all, SOMEBODY has to interpret and act upon God's words.

"Government" is the organization by which "governance" is carried out. Principles of "governance" can be motivated by, or even directly informed by, social value systems. "Religion" can form the basis of a social value system. However, these things are not the same. You can have a mode of governance that is inspired by religion or superstition, but isn't rigidly hierarchical or theocratic (e.g. early human civilization). You can have a social value system that forms the basis of a country's Constitution, but isn't derived explicitly from religious doctrine (e.g. the USA... sort of).

Hell, a fascist military regime provides governance and has no NEED for consent from the people. Power is concentrated at the top, and the State has a monopoly on violence. If you don't like the social contracts I force upon you, what the fuck are YOU gonna do about it?

[aperson]

Re: Religion is government

critical thinking

[DaBackpack]

Re: Religion is government

critical stinking

[ositzxz369]

Re: Religion is government