TWG CLXIV: Classics Man - Game Thread

[Witch of Certainty]

Originally Posted by thesunfan

witch, its fine (well not "fine" but you'll know what I mean) that you appear to be townreading Shado

what I think everyone in the game needs from you are reasons why you're townreading him, as well as who we should kill instead

"someone else" is not helping people understand where you're at in the game. If you don't like the way that town is headed, its your job to try and direct the flow towards where you want it to go

1. I'm town reading him because the major case against him as far as I understand, that he was tunneling Mellon and not really doing anything else, is overblown and flat out wrong, respectively, and he has good content and a good visible mindset in his posts.
As for who instead, I'd pick Jade, or wine since his not being here yet doesn't change that roundbox never delivered what he promised.

2. I'd hope you know "where my head is at" after I posted that list I think we should lynch from.
And I'm not trying to direct the flow? I've outright stated that town should only lynch from a group of five and asked that people drop their suspicions of someone I think is town with specific reasoning. Let me state that reasoning again for good measure: Even if you really think Shado is a wolf, leave him for now. If this was Xel, okay. If it was Proph, okay. But Shado's post rate, forcefulness, and presence will push wolves to kill him if he's town.
But then you could point out that they specifically won't kill him now? Doesn't matter. We'll lynch other wolves from my list, I'm sure of it. Then we can lynch Shado if you must, once we have more than enough room for error. And yes, my reads are fallible, I could be wrong about Shado just as much as anyone in my "do not lynch" group. But I believe in my reads just as much as you do in yours. And that list is not saying those people are lock town for the rest of the game. It's saying that they're bad lynches at this point.
I haven't worried about not finding wolves because instead I worked on finding people who I didn't want lynched. People I thought were town, who i thought were clearly not wolves, or people whose level of activity and thought made them self-resolving.
I've been taking people out of my lynch pool and called for town to not lynch them as well. I've been pushing what I think regardless of how it would go over, or do you think I post half of what I have? So how the hell do you say I haven't tried to direct things? Because I haven't been taking blind leaps and pushing thoughts and suspicions I don't have and/or believe? Because I have therefore mainly pushed against things I think are wrong/bad decisions? I think this is beneath you.
Does this help you finally understand my position?

[Hakulyte]

Originally Posted by Witch of Certainty

1. I'm town reading him because the major case against him as far as I understand, that he was tunneling Mellon and not really doing anything else, is overblown and flat out wrong, respectively, and he has good content and a good visible mindset in his posts.
As for who instead, I'd pick Jade, or wine since his not being here yet doesn't change that roundbox never delivered what he promised.

2. I'd hope you know "where my head is at" after I posted that list I think we should lynch from.
And I'm not trying to direct the flow? I've outright stated that town should only lynch from a group of five and asked that people drop their suspicions of someone I think is town with specific reasoning. Let me state that reasoning again for good measure: Even if you really think Shado is a wolf, leave him for now. If this was Xel, okay. If it was Proph, okay. But Shado's post rate, forcefulness, and presence will push wolves to kill him if he's town.
But then you could point out that they specifically won't kill him now? Doesn't matter. We'll lynch other wolves from my list, I'm sure of it. Then we can lynch Shado if you must, once we have more than enough room for error. And yes, my reads are fallible, I could be wrong about Shado just as much as anyone in my "do not lynch" group. But I believe in my reads just as much as you do in yours. And that list is not saying those people are lock town for the rest of the game. It's saying that they're bad lynches at this point.
I haven't worried about not finding wolves because instead I worked on finding people who I didn't want lynched. People I thought were town, who i thought were clearly not wolves, or people whose level of activity and thought made them self-resolving.
I've been taking people out of my lynch pool and called for town to not lynch them as well. I've been pushing what I think regardless of how it would go over, or do you think I post half of what I have? So how the hell do you say I haven't tried to direct things? Because I haven't been taking blind leaps and pushing thoughts and suspicions I don't have and/or believe? Because I have therefore mainly pushed against things I think are wrong/bad decisions? I think this is beneath you.
Does this help you finally understand my position?

I'm mind melding with this atm because the other option is to be in a tunnel and cry when the result is not what I hoped for.

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by Witch of Certainty

1. I'm town reading him because the major case against him as far as I understand, that he was tunneling Mellon and not really doing anything else, is overblown and flat out wrong, respectively, and he has good content and a good visible mindset in his posts.

Thank you. Being consistently "misunderstood" was driving me crazy. I'm glad to see my mindset and posts are visible to someone.

Originally Posted by Witch of Certainty

As for who instead, I'd pick Jade, or wine since his not being here yet doesn't change that roundbox never delivered what he promised.

What did roundbox promise?

Originally Posted by Witch of Certainty

2. I'd hope you know "where my head is at" after I posted that list I think we should lynch from.
And I'm not trying to direct the flow? I've outright stated that town should only lynch from a group of five and asked that people drop their suspicions of someone I think is town with specific reasoning. Let me state that reasoning again for good measure: Even if you really think Shado is a wolf, leave him for now. If this was Xel, okay. If it was Proph, okay. But Shado's post rate, forcefulness, and presence will push wolves to kill him if he's town.
But then you could point out that they specifically won't kill him now? Doesn't matter. We'll lynch other wolves from my list, I'm sure of it. Then we can lynch Shado if you must, once we have more than enough room for error.

The parts before bold are iffy, because I've accumulated enough general suspicion at this point to make me look like an easy scapegoat any time the wolves start to feel pressured.
The bold part itself causes me to lean Witch town, though. Specifically, "once we have more than enough room for error". She's thinking critically, analyzing possibilities and different worlds here, and coming to the conclusion that it's too risky to lynch me here. She's open to the idea of killing me "if you must", but only after town's in a better spot.
A mislynch at this stage is really bad, and the person pushing me is tunneling/pushing for it so hard he was willing to openly declare that town should only lynch between us. Regardless of anything else, the possibility that he's a wolf pushing hard for the finish line alone should deter votes on me/AA. Find someone else this phase, and vigikill/lynch me as you please once we're a little more comfortable in wolf numbers.

Originally Posted by Witch of Certainty

And yes, my reads are fallible, I could be wrong about Shado just as much as anyone in my "do not lynch" group. But I believe in my reads just as much as you do in yours. And that list is not saying those people are lock town for the rest of the game. It's saying that they're bad lynches at this point.
I haven't worried about not finding wolves because instead I worked on finding people who I didn't want lynched. People I thought were town, who i thought were clearly not wolves, or people whose level of activity and thought made them self-resolving.

This is subtle, but it pretty clearly outlines the difference in playstyle that myself and others have noted. Also explains why she refused to give "scumreads" so to speak, and instead gave a list of five people she thought were scum.
I'm trying to be cautious not to be pocketed so I'm only giving her a townlean, but I do like the approach this post takes to the game, her PoE, and her tone.

Originally Posted by Witch of Certainty

I've been taking people out of my lynch pool and called for town to not lynch them as well. I've been pushing what I think regardless of how it would go over, or do you think I post half of what I have? So how the hell do you say I haven't tried to direct things? Because I haven't been taking blind leaps and pushing thoughts and suspicions I don't have and/or believe? Because I have therefore mainly pushed against things I think are wrong/bad decisions? I think this is beneath you.
Does this help you finally understand my position?

[Witch of Certainty]

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Thank you. Being consistently "misunderstood" was driving me crazy. I'm glad to see my mindset and posts are visible to someone.


What did roundbox promise?


The parts before bold are iffy, because I've accumulated enough general suspicion at this point to make me look like an easy scapegoat any time the wolves start to feel pressured.
The bold part itself causes me to lean Witch town, though. Specifically, "once we have more than enough room for error". She's thinking critically, analyzing possibilities and different worlds here, and coming to the conclusion that it's too risky to lynch me here. She's open to the idea of killing me "if you must", but only after town's in a better spot.
A mislynch at this stage is really bad, and the person pushing me is tunneling/pushing for it so hard he was willing to openly declare that town should only lynch between us. Regardless of anything else, the possibility that he's a wolf pushing hard for the finish line alone should deter votes on me/AA. Find someone else this phase, and vigikill/lynch me as you please once we're a little more comfortable in wolf numbers.
[/b]
This is subtle, but it pretty clearly outlines the difference in playstyle that myself and others have noted. Also explains why she refused to give "scumreads" so to speak, and instead gave a list of five people she thought were scum.
I'm trying to be cautious not to be pocketed so I'm only giving her a townlean, but I do like the approach this post takes to the game, her PoE, and her tone.

Quoting the whole post to say thank you as well.

roundbox promised an interesting and thoughtful wallpost and all he did give was resoundingly unimpressive.

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by Witch of Certainty

Quoting the whole post to say thank you as well.

For what?

Originally Posted by Witch of Certainty

roundbox promised an interesting and thoughtful wallpost and all he did give was resoundingly unimpressive.

oh, that's what you were talking about. Yeah, definitely resoundingly unimpressive, especially compared to other roundbox games.

[Witch of Certainty]

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

For what?



oh, that's what you were talking about. Yeah, definitely resoundingly unimpressive, especially compared to other roundbox games.

For understanding what I meant and was trying to do?

A thought: wab isn't looking like he'll be that impressive either so far. What do you say?

[ShadoWolfe]

Running out of time. I'm cooking for the extended fam today and wanna start soon. Day ends at 9pm PST (11pm server time) (T-3hrs7mins) so I wanna see AA's Witch progression. Also really want to check Xel's progression on me specifically, his vote seemed extremely opportunistic and the worst of everyone who scumread me as a result of The Thunderdome. Jade also raised some flags for making a wallpost on why s/he was scumreading me, but the wallpost was almost all stuff AA had beaten to death already. I got the impression s/he was trying to make it look like s/he had put in a lot of work to get to that conclusion independently. Red flags for both Xel/Jade as a result. I need to re-examine sunfan, but I don't think he's ever getting lynched today so I'll leave that for tomorrow to make the rest of this humanly possible from a time perspective.

Also, Proph did give a reason for not being as active today, right? I think I remember it, and his absence would be questionable otherwise.

[TWG Jade Harley]

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Running out of time. I'm cooking for the extended fam today and wanna start soon. Day ends at 9pm PST (11pm server time) (T-3hrs7mins) so I wanna see AA's Witch progression. Also really want to check Xel's progression on me specifically, his vote seemed extremely opportunistic and the worst of everyone who scumread me as a result of The Thunderdome. Jade also raised some flags for making a wallpost on why s/he was scumreading me, but the wallpost was almost all stuff AA had beaten to death already. I got the impression s/he was trying to make it look like s/he had put in a lot of work to get to that conclusion independently. Red flags for both Xel/Jade as a result. I need to re-examine sunfan, but I don't think he's ever getting lynched today so I'll leave that for tomorrow to make the rest of this humanly possible from a time perspective.

Also, Proph did give a reason for not being as active today, right? I think I remember it, and his absence would be questionable otherwise.

are you being serious right now??

you kept asking everyone to go back and check posting time on the early interactions and votes. i did so, found several inconsistencies with your progression, and suddenly its just me sheeping aa???

no, get back here and respond im annoyed that you think my arguments are somehow invalid, how about you point out whats so bad about them???

[TWG Jade Harley]

alright my reads list is almost done pending a few interactions, but imo its kind of a mess!!

strong town:

haku - haku acting like an agent of chaos this entire game makes him stand out!! but in a good way! hes kind of doing his own thing and has been consistently doing so this entire game, so hes really the only person im really confident about reading alignmentwise!

mml - i just read his tone as pure and his line of thought i can easily read and identify with!

weak town:

proph - proph is trending down because hes not here enough! i cant really get a sense of where he stands on a lot of issues and id really like him to come and weigh in on todays posts beyond just make a single post and leave!!

sunfan - out of the people i asked about the dbp wagon yesterday, your response felt the least genuine! i mean its better than what i got from xel (nothing...) but still your reaction was not what i expected considering you started dbp wagon!! your tone and thoughts today are fine, but that one point is dragging you down in my mind and making me paranoid about you...

wineandbread - i feel so frustrated because i feel like when roundbox left i got cheated out of getting his thoughts about dbp wagon because he made 2 posts then peaced out, leaving me with almost nothing to go on for the day!! your first content post i really like, but its going to take a lot more than that to clear this slot in my mind.

null:

xel - i cannot read your slot!! your interactions with people are strange. you never answer any question i ask you. you come in, weigh in on stuff for like 2 or 3 posts, then inexplicably leave!! i really want to have a decent real time interaction with you. also i want you to tell me what your thought are about dbp wagon and your role in it with 2 or 3 sentences! although im not even sure how much this will help read you at this point...

witch - your posts today were fine but your hard defending of shado makes me suspicious of you again, downgrading you to null. i cant help but tinfoil that you have alignment information and your using it to gain favor subtly. ugh witch has caused me so many headaches this game...

THUNDERDOME:

aa - aa is really hard for me to read at the best of times, and this is not the best of times. my previous post showed why i think town aa could do what hes done and obviously as a wolf he could do it too. the thing thats balancing it out in his favor is he has been unrelenting in his questioning and scumhunting and seems to have towns best interests at heart, although a voice in my head is telling me that even that could come from a wolf mindset.

shado - i know your done talking about raeko, but that is a microcosm of a larger problem in that i cant i cannot understand where alot of your posts come from a town mindset. when i read posts from other people i can put myself in their shoes and think "yeah i would totally do that". i cannot do that in very many cases with you. ironically the only time im seeing where your coming from is recently when your campaigning against your lynch, and i agree that finding and investigating other people today is a wise use of time and i will be doing that, but my thoughts now are between aa/shado is our best chance to find a wolf.

=======

now that the reads list is posted, i think examining player interactions is the logical next step! and thats what im going to be doing~~

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by TWG Jade Harley

weak town:

proph - proph is trending down because hes not here enough! i cant really get a sense of where he stands on a lot of issues and id really like him to come and weigh in on todays posts beyond just make a single post and leave!!

sunfan - out of the people i asked about the dbp wagon yesterday, your response felt the least genuine! i mean its better than what i got from xel (nothing...) but still your reaction was not what i expected considering you started dbp wagon!! your tone and thoughts today are fine, but that one point is dragging you down in my mind and making me paranoid about you...

wineandbread - i feel so frustrated because i feel like when roundbox left i got cheated out of getting his thoughts about dbp wagon because he made 2 posts then peaced out, leaving me with almost nothing to go on for the day!! your first content post i really like, but its going to take a lot more than that to clear this slot in my mind.

Why do I feel like all of these weak townleans are pointing out more negatives than positives? Why are you townleaning them? Specifically sunfan and proph. If sunfan's post was the least genuine and his reaction was not what you expected and his tone and thoughts today are just "fine", why is he a townlean?
If you don't know where Proph stands and feel he's been making single posts and leaving, what's causing you to townlean him?

Originally Posted by TWG Jade Harley

THUNDERDOME:

aa - aa is really hard for me to read at the best of times, and this is not the best of times. my previous post showed why i think town aa could do what hes done and obviously as a wolf he could do it too. the thing thats balancing it out in his favor is he has been unrelenting in his questioning and scumhunting and seems to have towns best interests at heart, although a voice in my head is telling me that even that could come from a wolf mindset.

shado - i know your done talking about raeko, but that is a microcosm of a larger problem in that i cant i cannot understand where alot of your posts come from a town mindset. when i read posts from other people i can put myself in their shoes and think "yeah i would totally do that". i cannot do that in very many cases with you. ironically the only time im seeing where your coming from is recently when your campaigning against your lynch, and i agree that finding and investigating other people today is a wise use of time and i will be doing that, but my thoughts now are between aa/shado is our best chance to find a wolf.

Haha, funny that we're all just calling it The Thunderdome!
Do you have any specific posts that you were having trouble seeing from a town mindset? You say "the only time" you see where I'm coming from is when I campaign against my lynch, but I've made a lot of posts this game and it's hard for me to believe that you can't see a town perspective in any of them.

Also, I'd agree that it's quite likely there's a wolf in The Thunderdome (AA), but that's not a good enough reason to lynch "between AA/Shado". Actually, when you say "between AA/Shado", it seems pretty fake to me given that you're pretty much exclusively referring to voting me. Point is, even if you believe there's always a wolf in AA/Shado, that's a 50% chance from your perspective (really 0% since you mean me). If you lynch outside of The thunderdome, there's two wolves that you should have some reads on. --nvm, I just realized you don't have a scumleans section, just nulls and then the thunderdome.-- Well, what I mean is that there's two wolves at minimum outside the thunderdome, and you'd do pretty well to develop some reads on possibilities outside of me and AA.

[TWG Jade Harley]

im freaking suspicious of everyone besides haku and mml so i guess i should merge null and weak townleans into one section called Beyond Thunderdome

[TWG Jade Harley]

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Haha, funny that we're all just calling it The Thunderdome!
Do you have any specific posts that you were having trouble seeing from a town mindset? You say "the only time" you see where I'm coming from is when I campaign against my lynch, but I've made a lot of posts this game and it's hard for me to believe that you can't see a town perspective in any of them.

Also, I'd agree that it's quite likely there's a wolf in The Thunderdome (AA), but that's not a good enough reason to lynch "between AA/Shado". Actually, when you say "between AA/Shado", it seems pretty fake to me given that you're pretty much exclusively referring to voting me. Point is, even if you believe there's always a wolf in AA/Shado, that's a 50% chance from your perspective (really 0% since you mean me). If you lynch outside of The thunderdome, there's two wolves that you should have some reads on. --nvm, I just realized you don't have a scumleans section, just nulls and then the thunderdome.-- Well, what I mean is that there's two wolves at minimum outside the thunderdome, and you'd do pretty well to develop some reads on possibilities outside of me and AA.

everyone in weak town is pretty much cruising on my previous reads of them, but i agree i said i would reset but i wasnt mentally doing it. ill put them all in Beyond Thunderdome and try to see what i can to picking away at solving them before eod.

secondly, that post was hyperbole. i didnt say that i couldnt see town perspective from any of your posts, i said those posts are infrequent though. im even tinfoiling about your best hour (campaigning against dbp lynch when it started) because if you were a wolf that would be something you could easily bet on and have it pay out. iono maybe im tunneling and tinfoiling too much but i really mean it when i say its aa/shado. aa is only getting a pass based on previous stuff outweighing the dbp vote and the POSSIBLITY that they could vote dbp realistically as town. if you read my aa post youll see my points i have against aa. aa railroading and tunneling is something thats more wolfy than not because i feel like aa would be cognizant of the fact that he tends to do that and try to put more effort into solving other people like he did day 0 when he mentioned that very fact. ugh i just dont know atm

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by TWG Jade Harley

secondly, that post was hyperbole. i didnt say that i couldnt see town perspective from any of your posts, i said those posts are infrequent though. im even tinfoiling about your best hour (campaigning against dbp lynch when it started) because if you were a wolf that would be something you could easily bet on and have it pay out.

There were wagons on four people, do you really think none of them were a wolf? What I mean is, if I were wolf, that EoD was way too chaotic to be defending DBP in if there was a wolf in literally any of the other wagons. I could only see wolfShado trying to pull people off DBP "for towncred" in the event that there were 0 wolves in the other wagons.

[TWG Jade Harley]

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

There were wagons on four people, do you really think none of them were a wolf? What I mean is, if I were wolf, that EoD was way too chaotic to be defending DBP in if there was a wolf in literally any of the other wagons. I could only see wolfShado trying to pull people off DBP "for towncred" in the event that there were 0 wolves in the other wagons.

who was the 4th person? because at 17 mins left when a lead wagon emerged there was only 3 wagons (i dont consider a single vote a "wagon" >.>)

dbp, me, proph

afterwards, for exactly 3 mins theres 4 wagons.

then it goes back down to 3 and stays that way the rest of the day

i dont see whats so hard about understanding it. you call for people to get off dbp constantly, nobody listens to you and afterwards you try to cash in on it. the fact that if its true or not doesnt take away from the fact that its definitely possible...and im im not seeing how its impossible maybe im not understanding you correctly???

[AragakiAyase]

Originally Posted by TWG Jade Harley

everyone in weak town is pretty much cruising on my previous reads of them, but i agree i said i would reset but i wasnt mentally doing it. ill put them all in Beyond Thunderdome and try to see what i can to picking away at solving them before eod.

secondly, that post was hyperbole. i didnt say that i couldnt see town perspective from any of your posts, i said those posts are infrequent though. im even tinfoiling about your best hour (campaigning against dbp lynch when it started) because if you were a wolf that would be something you could easily bet on and have it pay out. iono maybe im tunneling and tinfoiling too much but i really mean it when i say its aa/shado. aa is only getting a pass based on previous stuff outweighing the dbp vote and the POSSIBLITY that they could vote dbp realistically as town. if you read my aa post youll see my points i have against aa. aa railroading and tunneling is something thats more wolfy than not because i feel like aa would be cognizant of the fact that he tends to do that and try to put more effort into solving other people like he did day 0 when he mentioned that very fact. ugh i just dont know atm

I have put other effort into solving other players

I've had a progression on witch today, from being heavily suspicious to thinking town lean back to heavily suspicious

I've had a progression on proph today, from suspicious yesterday to thinking he's town today

I've called out roundbox's suspicious posts; I don't feel wnb has given anything super alignment indicative atm

I've been thinking about xel and think his reads post was not bad, even though it did feel like it got lazier

I'm sorry if my reads don't massively swing on everyone and if I suddenly come up with three different wolfreads every time

not sorry

[Wineandbread]

Originally Posted by Witch of Certainty

1. I'm town reading him because the major case against him as far as I understand, that he was tunneling Mellon and not really doing anything else, is overblown and flat out wrong, respectively, and he has good content and a good visible mindset in his posts.
As for who instead, I'd pick Jade, or wine since his not being here yet doesn't change that roundbox never delivered what he promised.

2. I'd hope you know "where my head is at" after I posted that list I think we should lynch from.
And I'm not trying to direct the flow? I've outright stated that town should only lynch from a group of five and asked that people drop their suspicions of someone I think is town with specific reasoning. Let me state that reasoning again for good measure: Even if you really think Shado is a wolf, leave him for now. If this was Xel, okay. If it was Proph, okay. But Shado's post rate, forcefulness, and presence will push wolves to kill him if he's town.
But then you could point out that they specifically won't kill him now? Doesn't matter. We'll lynch other wolves from my list, I'm sure of it. Then we can lynch Shado if you must, once we have more than enough room for error. And yes, my reads are fallible, I could be wrong about Shado just as much as anyone in my "do not lynch" group. But I believe in my reads just as much as you do in yours. And that list is not saying those people are lock town for the rest of the game. It's saying that they're bad lynches at this point.
I haven't worried about not finding wolves because instead I worked on finding people who I didn't want lynched. People I thought were town, who i thought were clearly not wolves, or people whose level of activity and thought made them self-resolving.
I've been taking people out of my lynch pool and called for town to not lynch them as well. I've been pushing what I think regardless of how it would go over, or do you think I post half of what I have? So how the hell do you say I haven't tried to direct things? Because I haven't been taking blind leaps and pushing thoughts and suspicions I don't have and/or believe? Because I have therefore mainly pushed against things I think are wrong/bad decisions? I think this is beneath you.
Does this help you finally understand my position?

I don't agree with the bolded because he is too controversial to kill off right now. But I do think a lynch grants us a lot of information on the people that bussed him (myself included? idk lol)
However I like the rest of this post and agree we should be looking for other awoo-ers

[AragakiAyase]

Originally Posted by Wineandbread

I don't agree with the bolded because he is too controversial to kill off right now. But I do think a lynch grants us a lot of information on the people that bussed him (myself included? idk lol)
However I like the rest of this post and agree we should be looking for other awoo-ers

if shado is a wolf this may be a slip

note for later