TWG CXLIV - The Freeze Wars (Sex Live)

[DaBackpack]

Xiz obviously

where are you getting roundbox being mega-clear right now?

[dLGN]

his post railing tokzic before the day started was phenomenal

[DaBackpack]

Originally Posted by dLGN

uhh that's taken directly from our pm history

here's the entire thing:

are you doing what I think you're doing

​[7:44] 
I remembered that  I can talk to you directly

dlgn [8:10 PM] 
hiya

​[8:10] 
maybe

​[8:11] 
:innocent:

​[8:11] 
what do you think I am doing?

dabackpack [8:19 PM] 
well

​[8:20] 
I thought that you were a homeless guy, and you were trying to find your partner

​[8:20] 
And then you got 2 responses, leading you to doubt one of them: rzr

dlgn [8:20 PM] 
that's what i gathered from the posts I am reading right now

dabackpack [8:21 PM] 
but that doesn't make sense if you thought of the plan far in advance.

dlgn [8:21 PM] 
yup

​[8:21] 
that's not why I suspect rzr

​[8:21] 
i'll detail that shortly

dabackpack [8:21 PM] 
please do

​[8:21] 
I want to know about your use of winky faces

dlgn [8:22 PM] 
they're mostly obnoxious

dabackpack [8:22 PM] 
You said something like "If 2 or 3 people contact me (;) ) then one of them is a wolf"

​[8:22] 
which, to me, sounds like a heavy soft

dlgn [8:22 PM] 
i find it very frustrating to play against town who act cocky and clear for no reason

​[8:22] 
i'm acting in such a way because I find people easier to read from it

​[8:22] 
kind of selfish, sure

​[8:23] 
and while most everybody seems to think my proposal is similarly selfish

​[8:23] 
I don't think it has much to do with myself at all

​[8:23] 
necessarily

dabackpack [8:23 PM] 
I mean, I guess

dlgn [8:23 PM] 
lemme catch up with the thread, respond to rzr, and then see where you're at

dabackpack [8:23 PM] 
alright

dlgn [8:24 PM] 
but yes

​[8:24] 
I am trying to not claim VT in my posts

​[8:24] 
maybe that would help but it's generally anti town imo

​[8:24] 
although

​[8:24] 
tbh, considering wolves don't have the choice of night kills

​[8:24] 
besides the one movie theatre assassination

​[8:24] 
...

dabackpack [8:24 PM] 
might not be a good idea to think like that

dlgn [8:25 PM] 
perhaps I could and quit with the obfuscation

dabackpack [8:25 PM] 
idk

dlgn [8:25 PM] 
for now keep this to yourself?

dabackpack [8:25 PM] 
yes

dlgn [8:25 PM] 
much thanks

​[8:26] 
ah so you found it odd that my plan is premeditated bc you think I could only pull it off, or something off, if I rolled homeless guy?

​[8:27] 
nah, the idea is more about really just matching them up

dabackpack [8:28 PM] 
yes that is what I found strange

​[8:28] 
within the most likely narrative I found, there wasn't much room for premeditation, since you would have needed to know that you were a homeless guy

​[8:29] 
I'll drop that narrative for now

dlgn [8:30 PM] 
yeah, I am indeed vanilla villager and thought this up as most effective if I rolled vanilla villager

dlgn [9:14 PM] 
posted my reasoning on rzr, will address my proposal next but for now going to see what people are up to tonight etc.

dabackpack [9:29 PM] 
"more than any of those individual points, however, is the simple fact that VIRTUALLY EVERY SINGLE READ CAME WITH A DISCLAIMER OR CONDITIONAL. not a single one was something that wasn't flimsy and easy to flip on. i'd suggest they almost are phrased in a way that makes it seem that he expects to be flipping on them." this is actually a good point

​[9:31] 
that said I don't really remember how he does in other games --- I remember he had some bizarre behavior as town in the last games, so I might revisit that


----- December 4th -----
dabackpack [12:34 AM] 
"so hey @dlgn any spec questions flip them, otherwise I guess we'll just call it a spade"

​[12:34] 
feels like impression management

​[12:34] 
or sucking up, or w/e

dlgn [12:35 AM] 
possibly, but at this point he's being unproductive and kind of annoying me to the point where I am not being too productive, either.  which is bad in case I am wrong.

​[12:35] 
if this gets him posting more about other things it can only help me get a better read.  i am not unvoting for now but hopefully he interacts with others.

dabackpack [12:36 AM] 
right

​[12:36] 
will be more effective to get him off the defensive

dlgn [12:36 AM] 
aye


----- December 5th -----
dabackpack [10:49 PM] 
backpedal harder lmao

​[10:50] 
regarding https://twig.slack.com/archives/freezewars/p1449373780005661

dlgn [10:50 PM] 
yeah

​[10:50] 
99.9% sure you are town

​[10:50] 
99% sure he is mafia with xiz

dabackpack [10:50 PM] 
that's where I'm at

dlgn [10:50 PM] 
i had both of them in my poe earlier

​[10:50] 
i hate myself

​[10:51] 
they literally both reached out to me today

​[10:51] 
argggg

dabackpack [10:51 PM] 
oh?

​[10:51] 
reached out to you how?

dlgn [10:51 PM] 
yeah i posted my logs with xiz at least

dabackpack [10:51 PM] 
right

dlgn [10:51 PM] 
talked with me about reads for a long time

dabackpack [10:51 PM] 
oh I see

dlgn [10:51 PM] 
said they kind of townread me

​[10:51] 
blah blah

​[10:51] 
what a waste of time lmao

​[10:53] 
actually we talked about you a lot

​[10:53] 
so you'd be interested in it

​[10:53] 
here

dabackpack [10:53 PM] 
I think

​[10:53] 
the way in which people have held conversations with me is pretty telling

dlgn [10:53 PM] 
http://pastebin.com/AihWbS2q
enjoy, make of it what you will
Pastebin
dlgn AA - Pastebin.com (8KB)


dabackpack [10:54 PM] 
rzr is 100% town because whenever I would ask him questions, he would ask me questions in return

​[10:54] 
he wanted information from me

​[10:54] 
just like I wanted information from him

dlgn [10:54 PM] 
yep

dabackpack [10:54 PM] 
(rzr as an example)

​[10:54] 
AA and Xiz both answered my questions

​[10:54] 
and then dropped off

dlgn [10:54 PM] 
well so xiz pushed rzr, you, and then gradiant in that order

​[10:54] 
i think that is 3 town

​[10:55] 
xiz was sheeping my rzr read

dabackpack [10:55 PM] 
how recent is that convo

dlgn [10:55 PM] 
from today

​[10:55] 
after I defended you

dabackpack [10:55 PM] 
ok

dlgn [10:55 PM] 
when they moved to vote you

dabackpack [10:55 PM] 
wondering  why he would "lol you killed gradiant" if he had a gradiant scumread

dlgn [10:55 PM] 
hm?

dabackpack [10:55 PM] 
oh wait

​[10:56] 
this is AA lol

​[10:56] 
ok

dlgn [10:56 PM] 
yeah

dabackpack [10:57 PM] 
I see

​[11:00] 
I'm inclined to believe the last comment of his is self-damage control

​[11:00] 
but won't get too attached

​[11:00] 
I fall into that trap every game

dlgn [11:00 PM] 
oh almost certainly

​[11:01] 
it's reasonable to think here

dabackpack [11:01 PM] 
getting attached to a certain narrative

dlgn [11:01 PM] 
he didn't know xiz gave up

​[11:01] 
so he was defending him

dabackpack [11:01 PM] 
right

dlgn [11:01 PM] 
yeah, im gonna sleep on it

​[11:01] 
i'm in an exhibit

​[11:01] 
you're the only one who knows

​[11:02] 
idk if that is useful at all

dabackpack [11:02 PM] 
an exhibit?

​[11:02] 
oh

dlgn [11:02 PM] 
but idk in the case someone fakes a seer check or something dumb

​[11:02] 
yeah, i'll say I am in either room 1 2 or 3

dabackpack [11:02 PM] 
I'm going somewhere harmless

dlgn [11:02 PM] 
cool

dabackpack [11:02 PM] 
yup

​[11:02] 
aight nighty

dlgn [11:02 PM] 
gn


----- December 6th -----
dabackpack [6:52 PM] 
I think V might be the third wolf in this universe

dlgn [7:34 PM] 
maybe, idk

​[7:34] 
that was my initial thought


----- December 7th -----
dabackpack [10:05 PM] 
Nevermind, roundbox is third wolf

dlgn [11:15 PM] 
rly?

​[11:16] 
i kept getting weird vibes from him off and on

​[11:16] 
like he didn't like the general direction of the game but had taken a different side

​[11:16] 
i just wasn't looking there first since he has townread me most of the game >_<

​[11:16] 
why?  i haven't read too much of the game today tbh


----- Yesterday December 8th, 2015 -----
dabackpack [2:26 AM] 
he got defensive whenever he thought someone was calling him a wolf

​[2:26] 
or suggesting it

​[2:26] 
it's happened three times this game so far

dlgn [2:26 AM] 
hm, same with storn and even rzr, though

​[2:26] 
that's not a completely unreasonable reaction

dabackpack [2:26 AM] 
fair enough

dlgn [2:26 AM] 
even I have lashed out when I got frustrated enough

​[2:27] 
yeah idk if that is enough for me to think so, but I did give you a few things that I thought about him, he's not completely off my radar

dabackpack [2:27 AM] 
and lately he's warmed up to the xiz lynch, which looks good for him

dlgn [2:28 AM] 
who, roundbox?

​[2:28] 
i mean at this point it seems like activity is low

​[2:28] 
and there are like what, 5 votes on xiz?

​[2:28] 
he may think he's beyond saving

dabackpack [3:21 AM] 
oh, I remember now

​[3:21] 
roundbox called my argument with AA town/town

​[3:22] 
and then didn't elaborate, which seemed like he was trying to "cover" for AA in a sense

dlgn [3:22 AM] 
yeah

dabackpack [3:22 AM] 
that's what got it in my head
not important but before I forgot again

dabackpack [6:52 PM]
I think V might be the third wolf in this universe


dabackpack [10:05 PM]
Nevermind, roundbox is third wolf

yeah, you look VERY BAD right now...

answer my question

why do you think CURRENTLY that I think you're a wolf?

[DaBackpack]

Originally Posted by dLGN

his post railing tokzic before the day started was phenomenal

Yeah don't you think that Tokzic kamikazed, and it's possible a wolf Roundbox would take the opportunity to nail his partner who he knew was going to die?

[dLGN]

dabackpack [10:54 PM]
rzr is 100% town because whenever I would ask him questions, he would ask me questions in return

​[10:54]
AA and Xiz both answered my questions

​[10:54]
and then dropped off

^^interesting lines

[DaBackpack]

the list I provided, that one of those people at least is a wolf, is 100% undeniable

[dLGN]

Originally Posted by DaBackpack

Yeah don't you think that Tokzic kamikazed, and it's possible a wolf Roundbox would take the opportunity to nail his partner who he knew was going to die?

what the fuck? the wolves don't get that information before the rest of us, which is why you or whoever actually is a wolf didn't do the same

what the fuck is your logic right now?

[DaBackpack]

Originally Posted by dLGN

dabackpack [10:54 PM]
rzr is 100% town because whenever I would ask him questions, he would ask me questions in return

​[10:54]
AA and Xiz both answered my questions

​[10:54]
and then dropped off

^^interesting lines

grats you found a read from days ago

[dLGN]

Originally Posted by DaBackpack

answer my question

why do you think CURRENTLY that I think you're a wolf?

that's the dumbest fucking question ever. rzr caliber.

i'm not a wolf. i don't really care what reason you just made up.

[Charu]

Hiya, I'm dead and here is my gosh darn death post.

[dLGN]

cheers charu ^_^

[DaBackpack]

Originally Posted by dLGN

what the fuck? the wolves don't get that information before the rest of us, which is why you or whoever actually is a wolf didn't do the same

what the fuck is your logic right now?

ok look

Tokzic died
Tokzic could NOT have possibly died in the space room.
Tokzic could ONLY have died in the Kidz Room.

V ANNOUNCED THAT HE WAS GOING IN THE KIDZ ROOM.

TOKZIC GOING IN THAT ROOM MEANT HE KNEW FULL WELL WHAT WAS HAPPENING.

THE WOLVES KNEW.

That post doesn't clear roundbox because, if he's a wolf, HE KNEW THAT TOKZIC WAS GOING TO DIE.

[AragakiAyase]

Originally Posted by DaBackpack

Yeah don't you think that Tokzic kamikazed, and it's possible a wolf Roundbox would take the opportunity to nail his partner who he knew was going to die?

popping in to say that I didn't consider this scenario where tokzic kamikazes. I'm almost sure tokzic did kamikaze because I see no reason why charu would have taken the kids zone, so my guess is what happened last night is:
V goes into kids zone
tokzic goes into kids zone
tokzic/V die, kids zone seals
charu goes into space space, dies when it is frozen and sealed

also now that charu has flipped town I think xel is looking really bad, his posts this game have been more excuses than actual scumhunting

I think I also forgot to post my conversation with xel, here it is

aragakiayase [7:19 PM] 
Hi


----- December 7th -----
xelnya [2:52 AM] 
you suck

​[2:52] 
hai

aragakiayase [11:25 AM] 
so why have you been playing the way you have this game

​[11:26] 
you seemed interested at first but you've completely dropped off

​[11:26] 
and you backpacked onto the gradiant wagon???

xelnya [3:21 PM] 
It seems like I dropped off because 1 it's OOT and you probably don't know if I've been talking to more people yet because I haven't told you and then you have to account that at the beginning of the game I was on some days off. I'm now working.

​[3:23] 
If you think I'm a literal hindrance 100% I appreciate the honesty, let me know and I'll see if yoshl can get me replaced

​[3:28] 
And before you like think I'm taking it personally, I'm not. Don't worry about that.

aragakiayase [3:56 PM] 
I don't think you're a hindrance

​[3:56] 
and work is fair and so is OOT

​[3:56] 
so have you been PMing other people

xelnya [3:56 PM] 
I've been sparing about it because that's usually my gameplay style anyways. I don't really interact much so I've kept it about where I think it should be.

aragakiayase [3:57 PM] 
why are you trying to maintain a certain amount of interaction???

xelnya [3:57 PM] 
Because a lot of it feels out of place to me

​[3:57] 
Like AA, how often do I directly interact with a lot of people other than in game questions and stuff

​[3:58] 
usually it's a bunch of gifs

aragakiayase [3:58 PM] 
you don't

xelnya [3:58 PM] 
more than straight talking

aragakiayase [3:58 PM] 
but I haven't really seen you ask questions either

​[3:58] 
you've posted a lot

​[3:58] 
but when I look most of it is short and filler

xelnya [3:59 PM] 
the thing with this game is

​[3:59] 
you can't say that as anyone else

​[3:59] 
with solid fact behind it

​[3:59] 
like rzr couldn't say that

​[3:59] 
they have no idea how I am being in pms and stuff

​[4:01] 
It would take a town discussion full throttle to get that cleared and we'd see that coming I think

​[4:02] 
At least, that's how it comes off to me.

aragakiayase [5:24 PM] 
I don't understand

​[5:25] 
basically you're saying there's no way for anyone to know how much work you're putting in unless everyone talks about it?


----- Yesterday December 8th, 2015 -----
xelnya [2:47 AM] 
The tldr is this

​[2:47] 
if someone in game said

​[2:47] 
"oi xel is playing his wolf meta"

​[2:47] 
They couldn't fucking back it up

​[2:47] 
Not with any degree promise anyways

​[2:48] 
It would literally take the whole goddamned town

​[2:48] 
saying hey who talked to xel

​[2:48] 
which atm would only happen

​[2:48] 
at one of you fucking promting it

aragakiayase [11:44 AM] 
Convince me you're town because right now I think you're a wolf

aragakiayase [12:02 PM] 
Any reads? Any thoughts?

​[12:02] 
Which of the PR claims do you buy and why

xelnya [3:21 PM] 
Best town is V hands down picking up where he did to say we shouldn't lynch the hobo claims

​[3:21] 
Starting to kinda doubt tokzic because

​[3:22] 
of what V and DBP posted last night

​[3:23] 
I wanna see xiz go because he's playing sloppy and I wanna see him punished for it

​[3:24] 
Like who the fuck clears someone because they're new, that's just horrible reasoning and is full of assumptions xiz as a plyer should be smart enough to not be making'

​[3:26] 
Scummiest people in a row are probably xizu and storn third one I'm not sure of yet

​[3:26] 
dbp is prob town due to the convo with v last night

aragakiayase [3:27 PM] 
So you doubt toxzic but want xiz to die more because of his scummy play?

​[3:27] 
Or sloppy play?

xelnya [3:27 PM] 
Sloppy play because it's not characteristic of him

​[3:27] 
xizu is a gimmicky player not a sloppy one

​[3:28] 
But thing with doubting tokzic is

​[3:28] 
we can make a move on him should be wrong about xiz, or we COULD do Botchi but no one would ever think that was a good idea so might as well go between those two because that'd get more down I think

​[3:30] 
Also realizing how much I meld with v and that's not good now that I actually type my thoughts out

aragakiayase [3:32 PM] 
why is melding with V not good if you townread him?

xelnya [3:34 PM] 
Because mindmelding in general is fine if it's on some things but when it's a lot of them... It just feels bad

aragakiayase [3:34 PM] 
does it? if I mindmeld with someone a lot that makes me feel better about them

xelnya [3:35 PM] 
Sure I can see that, but it feels less like thinking for myself and more like just sitting back, agreeing, and doing nothing

​[3:35] 
That is

aragakiayase [3:35 PM] 
ok I can see that

xelnya [3:35 PM] 
if you're like super doing it

aragakiayase [3:35 PM] 
that was what I was going to ask, is it because it feels like you're just backpacking

​[3:35] 
so why do you think storn is scum now

​[3:35] 
because some things he did struck me as very town

xelnya [3:38 PM] 
Sotrn's been utr whole game to me

​[3:38] 
is that read super adjustable yes

​[3:39] 
but is there someone better suited to fill that spot atm, to me no.

​[3:39] 
But I can concede that one COULD be wrong.

aragakiayase [3:39 PM] 
so you think xiz play is sloppy

​[3:39] 
do you think he's scum because of that or that he's just sloppy?

xelnya [3:40 PM] 
Inching it towards because he's being sloppy which isn't characteristic of xiz

aragakiayase [3:40 PM] 
ok but lynching someone because of sloppy play doesn't seem right

xelnya [3:41 PM] 
We do it with RB and Zenith all the time

aragakiayase [3:41 PM] 
unless you think that sloppy play is indicative of them being scum and uncomfortable

xelnya [3:41 PM] 
"which isn't characteristic of xiz"

​[3:41] 
That's kinda why I added that

aragakiayase [3:41 PM] 
ok I didn't interpret exactly that way but fine

​[3:41] 
if xiz flips town then you think it's tokzic?

​[3:42] 
with maybe botchi?

xelnya [3:43 PM] 
I think if Xiz flips town we don't have a choice but to figure out between the two is full of it

​[3:43] 
Would start with Tokzic tho because there's already some doubt

​[3:43] 
And like I said earlier I think even messing with Botchi is a waste of time

​[3:45] 
So in terms of lynch order I think it'll probably be

Xizu, Tokzic / Botchi / Maybe storn? something in that ballpark

​[3:46] 
Based on the progression of things and what I think I'd do

​[3:46] 
But I has a question for you tho

​[3:46] 
What are your thoughts exactly on the convo dbp posted

aragakiayase [3:46 PM] 
with tokzic or v

xelnya [3:46 PM] 
Tokzic

​[3:46] 
V is pretty much sold town

​[3:46] 
he could tell me to jump, I'd probably ask how high

aragakiayase [3:46 PM] 
it strikes me as weird

​[3:47] 
let me look at it again

xelnya [3:47 PM] 
I mean when you say it's weird like out of place, or just " a little conveniant?"

aragakiayase [3:47 PM] 
I mean tokzic has said his motive was to test dbp

​[3:47] 
and that he didn't think about whether or not that would actually produce results

​[3:47] 
given the timing of when tokzic actually knew he'd be going into the booth

​[3:48] 
he may not have had time to think it over carefully

​[3:48] 
but it smells

​[3:48] 
bad

​[3:48] 
tokzic [10:07 PM] 
alright i have a really hard time imagining red just chilling in an exhibit

​[10:08] 
so i'm going to go ahead and say you're 90% town

​[3:48] 
like those lines don't sound natural

xelnya [3:49 PM] 
Is that directed at you, or a convo with another person

​[3:49] 
by tokzic

aragakiayase [3:49 PM] 
that was directed at dbp

​[3:49] 
taken from convo withh tokzic

​[3:52] 
so when did you come up with these reads

​[3:52] 
like V town, xiz scum tokzic fishy storn scummy

xelnya [3:52 PM] 
Come up with them? One does not just come up with reads. One obtains them over time :smile:

aragakiayase [3:52 PM] 
yes

xelnya [3:52 PM] 
lulz

aragakiayase [3:52 PM] 
so at what point in the game did you have these reads

xelnya [3:53 PM] 
The V one has been since he said the thing day 0 about not going through the hobos

​[3:53] 
WHICH everyone is kind of ignoring

​[3:54] 
But that was literally a "guys let's not sink time into this yetbecause more data later would be better for this so we're not mislynching"

​[3:54] 
is sorta the approach he has

​[3:54] 
I think

​[3:54] 
Storn I haven't really liked all game

​[3:55] 
Xiz I started to really dislike where noted in the thread with the head slap gif

​[3:55] 
Because that line of thought

​[3:55] 
is just awful

​[3:55] 
clearing people because they're new

​[3:55] 
It's like

​[3:56] 
would you clear me in a game for busing a partner to death because it's the first time I'd done it

​[3:56] 
No you wouldn't

​[3:56] 
you'd be suspect as hell about that yes?

aragakiayase [3:56 PM] 
yeah

xelnya [3:57 PM] 
kay so I have to get ready for work now but yeh leave some stuff if you want and I'll get back to you when I get home

​[3:57] 
I will HOPEFULLY be there for EoD

​[3:57] 
Because phones but I won't be in slack

aragakiayase [3:58 PM] 
ok

xelnya [3:58 PM] 
So if you see anything super important paste it to me on skype plz

aragakiayase [3:58 PM] 
one more question to leave you with

​[3:58] 
if you've had these reads building why don't you say anything

xelnya [3:58 PM] 
Canada is the answer

​[3:59] 
Because saying something is not important unless I immensely disagree at this point in time. If I feel a need to stop us from going the wrong way then I'll say something

​[4:00] 
Plus it's not like I can hard back these up without some of the peoples from OOT talking to me a little. Which I should start bugging them since they won't come to me

​[4:00] 
I must be scary or something

aragakiayase [4:00 PM] 
ok well it has the side effect of making you seem like you're trying to stay UTR

xelnya [4:00 PM] 
Can't say that's wrong

​[4:01] 
Off to get ready now tho

aragakiayase [4:01 PM] 
ok


----- Today December 9th, 2015 -----
aragakiayase [4:42 PM] 
tokzic or botchi

[DaBackpack]

Originally Posted by dLGN

that's the dumbest fucking question ever. rzr caliber.

i'm not a wolf. i don't really care what reason you just made up.

Reading comprehension

you said "Dabackpack is wrong about dlgn"

I'm asking for what this means

[DaBackpack]

Originally Posted by dLGN

here, i'll do some scumhunting. you have awful reads this game, backpack. i hard cleared you but it looks like you were wrong on AA, you're wrong on me, you (and I) were wrong on xiz, and roundbox looks VERY good right now. you were also checked by the wolf, and I now won't put much stock into that check.

I think you could easily be a wolf.

for your reference

[dLGN]

oh i didn't see you bolded a part of my post

[dLGN]

that trade is interesting.. idk, like did tokzic never see him not getting lynched over botchi so a trade is always best there?

hmph. it is very limiting for the wolf team, though. the movie stalker can't move. the other has to go to the AC room to freeze someone.

we need to send 1 unconfirmed into the sec booth each night. it's 1kp for wolves max, that they have to take, basically, and it removes a question mark from the game

[dLGN]

and backpack despite my hard defenses of you you've continued to throw my name out there in weird places. you shouldn't be so unsure about me, imo. combined with all of the above that doesn't look so hot for you, i'm just no longer sure you're town.

[DaBackpack]

Originally Posted by dLGN

and backpack despite my hard defenses of you you've continued to throw my name out there in weird places. you shouldn't be so unsure about me, imo. combined with all of the above that doesn't look so hot for you, i'm just no longer sure you're town.

why??

[DaBackpack]

for the audience, why don't you point out exactly where I suspect you
with dates

if you are going to continue to use that as an argument