TWG CXLIV - The Freeze Wars (Sex Live)

[Vendetta21]

Tokzic claimed hobo
I told him he couldn't have it
Later when he appeared offline on slack (for whatever reason) he showed as being offline for only a few minutes on steam and I messaged him there saying he could have the kidz room
He came back on slack and I didn't message him there
Later, before the night phase was over, he came on steam but also never asked me for the kidz room
He even sent me another message on steam apologizing that his game was too long, meaning he looked at his messages

That is the course of events

[Vendetta21]

Originally Posted by dLGN

like you're pushing a couple different odd lines here:

1. tokzic seemed to think his check was confirming and tested backpack with it. this isn't true (but it's likely true) so backpack isn't clear guys!

2. also tokzic is probably a wolf for being wrong about the first point

you seem to want both parts of this to be known but are more interested in the lynch part, by being emphatic about the check situation.

You're not following

[AragakiAyase]

Originally Posted by Vendetta21

Anyways, so the absolute first thought that went through your mind, before posting the results, was that you wanted to test DBP? Like irregardless of how good of an idea that was, your first thought and motivation for messaging him was testing him?

tokzic can you answer this question

[dLGN]

also how on earth is this setup balanced btw?

we have 2 homeless guys who can keep going in the security booth every day and the only way mafia have of stopping them is freezing the booth, which at best just gets rid of their "vest" while leaving the rest of town alive and the number of rooms to hide in too high to narrow down.

like our best strategy right now is to no lynch and let... probably botchi since the two of you think he is real, get another check to try and find the movie stalker or catch someone in the AC control room. rinse and repeat, mafia will have to try and freeze the booth to stop botchi, but the rest of us survive. do it again with tokzic until he gets frozen and loses his "vest". do it again with xiz until he loses his "vest" (if he has one).

we would find the movie stalker eventually and then have a free night in the movie theatre where nobody would die... like, how can town lose this...?

[Vendetta21]

I am trying to figure out who among tokzic or xiz is a wolf, dLGN, because I don't share your confidence.

If tokzic is a wolf, he could have used his advantaged situation having reclaimed the security booth from xiz to sabotage a bathroom slot (potential extra kill in a subsequent phase) and not use the seering booth even though he said he was going to, because he knew no one else would use it. This is potential.

If he did that, he would need to create a fake seering in the morning. He could do this by reading what people stated in slack but that might be risky because they might have been lying. Instead the safest bet is to ask someone and then pretend you already knew that to cover up your seering.

[dLGN]

Originally Posted by Vendetta21

Tokzic claimed hobo
I told him he couldn't have it
Later when he appeared offline on slack (for whatever reason) he showed as being offline for only a few minutes on steam and I messaged him there saying he could have the kidz room
He came back on slack and I didn't message him there
Later, before the night phase was over, he came on steam but also never asked me for the kidz room
He even sent me another message on steam apologizing that his game was too long, meaning he looked at his messages

That is the course of events

ok even if I believe you this is beyond silly. i get that oott is allowed and we're all using it but this means nothing to me. any conclusion you draw from it is going to be purely speculative / interpretation.

what's less up for debate is how xiz claimed wolf after the EOD and laughed about getting gradiant lynched. he's yet to explain that reaction and I find it nearly impossible to have come from a townie.

[dLGN]

Originally Posted by Vendetta21

I am trying to figure out who among tokzic or xiz is a wolf, dLGN, because I don't share your confidence.

If tokzic is a wolf, he could have used his advantaged situation having reclaimed the security booth from xiz to sabotage a bathroom slot (potential extra kill in a subsequent phase) and not use the seering booth even though he said he was going to, because he knew no one else would use it. This is potential.

If he did that, he would need to create a fake seering in the morning. He could do this by reading what people stated in slack but that might be risky because they might have been lying. Instead the safest bet is to ask someone and then pretend you already knew that to cover up your seering.

the easiest thing to do is just fake a red check and get a PR lynched, honestly. that's pretty worth because if we lynch xiz today and are wrong tokzic dies 99% of the time next over botchi anyway since they both think he's town, as do most others, it seems.

[Vendetta21]

This calls into question the log, because he asked DBP where he was that night rather than posting it in the thread first or telling DBP to prove he seered him. It signals that there is a possibility of foul play.

I am asking tokzic for his reasoning, specifically if his first thought truly was the idea of testing and that was his sole motivation. I want him to talk sincerely about what was going through his mind when he did that, which he should be able to remember, because I want to understand his perspective more clearly.

I currently cannot imagine a scenario where testing someone would ever give me new information because I can't imagine a scenario where someone would have a motivation to lie about what room they were in when they were in a room that indicates they are likely human. I can't find a reason why a wolf would lie about that fact. If you can come up with a scenario that I've overlooked where a wolf would lie about being in the Dino room when that is where they were, I would be really interested to hear it.

As it stands, I don't understand the impulse to test DBP, and I much more clearly understand the impulse to develop a fake seering to cover your tracks.

[Vendetta21]

Originally Posted by dLGN

ok even if I believe you this is beyond silly. i get that oott is allowed and we're all using it but this means nothing to me. any conclusion you draw from it is going to be purely speculative / interpretation.

what's less up for debate is how xiz claimed wolf after the EOD and laughed about getting gradiant lynched. he's yet to explain that reaction and I find it nearly impossible to have come from a townie.

Tokzic is the one continuing to focus on it

[dLGN]

Originally Posted by Vendetta21

This calls into question the log, because he asked DBP where he was that night rather than posting it in the thread first or telling DBP to prove he seered him. It signals that there is a possibility of foul play.

I am asking tokzic for his reasoning, specifically if his first thought truly was the idea of testing and that was his sole motivation. I want him to talk sincerely about what was going through his mind when he did that, which he should be able to remember, because I want to understand his perspective more clearly.

I currently cannot imagine a scenario where testing someone would ever give me new information because I can't imagine a scenario where someone would have a motivation to lie about what room they were in when they were in a room that indicates they are likely human. I can't find a reason why a wolf would lie about that fact. If you can come up with a scenario that I've overlooked where a wolf would lie about being in the Dino room when that is where they were, I would be really interested to hear it.

As it stands, I don't understand the impulse to test DBP, and I much more clearly understand the impulse to develop a fake seering to cover your tracks.

have you asked backpack to post HIS log from his perspective to crosscheck the two and confirm they are (very likely) real? because the only world where the logs are both tampered with is where they are both wolves and that's... so silly for so many reasons right now but whatever.

[Vendetta21]

Da backpack posted his log and tokzic confirmed it

[dLGN]

Originally Posted by dLGN

also how on earth is this setup balanced btw?

we have 2 homeless guys who can keep going in the security booth every day and the only way mafia have of stopping them is freezing the booth, which at best just gets rid of their "vest" while leaving the rest of town alive and the number of rooms to hide in too high to narrow down.

like our best strategy right now is to no lynch and let... probably botchi since the two of you think he is real, get another check to try and find the movie stalker or catch someone in the AC control room. rinse and repeat, mafia will have to try and freeze the booth to stop botchi, but the rest of us survive. do it again with tokzic until he gets frozen and loses his "vest". do it again with xiz until he loses his "vest" (if he has one).

we would find the movie stalker eventually and then have a free night in the movie theatre where nobody would die... like, how can town lose this...?

also isn't this true? if so I think we'd need to be smarter about where people go at night to ensure we don't lose like 5 in a night but other than that it's kind of unstoppable.

[Vendetta21]

It's irrelevant if it is people will undoubtedly bitch about it in post game tho

[dLGN]

so you still contend that the log is suspect? in what way?

like tampered with or just odd? i've read what you've said but you need to be specific here because this all seems unlikely to me. I would have done the same thing tokzic did.

[dLGN]

Originally Posted by Vendetta21

It's irrelevant if it is people will undoubtedly bitch about it in post game tho

why is it irrelevant? if it's a good strategy why don't we do it?

[Vendetta21]

Oh I thought you meant the comments about balance. I'm in favor of letting botchi dictate the allocation of night phase slots he seems extremely pure at this point, beyond that the "night phase planning" discussions are just intellectually stimulating white noise compared to the other discussions that should happen today.

[Vendetta21]

Originally Posted by dLGN

so you still contend that the log is suspect? in what way?

like tampered with or just odd? i've read what you've said but you need to be specific here because this all seems unlikely to me. I would have done the same thing tokzic did.

The log is not suspect with regards to the topics being discussed

[dLGN]

look I hope I am not making a mistake here and if you are town you are doing the right thing and being prudent and i'm sorry for slighting that. but xiz has yet to explain his reaction and there's no reason to suspect he is real right now whatsoever. and I don't want your explanation for his reaction, I'd like his, which I've asked about like 4 times now with no response, so...

[Vendetta21]

That's fine, I'm still not sure who I would like to see die today so carry on

[roundbox]

I have the pleasure of participating this phase via mobile, just an fyi