Help with Casual-Conversational Skills

[devonin]

Re: Help with Casual-Conversational Skills

When you have basically no working concept of empathy

2. Have some empathy.

I....see....

[EzExZeRo7497]

Re: Help with Casual-Conversational Skills

Wasn't directed at you. Even then, trying to show empathy is better than just not showing any empathy at all to begin with.

[drizzleRomanceGirl]

Re: Help with Casual-Conversational Skills

Yup.

I have the same problems as you do in casual conversation, haha. Along with the fact that I always repeat and talk about the same general topic for a very long time.

2 principles that I've kept in mind, though admittedly, I do have a lot of difficulty following some of this:
1. Visual cues or change in tones. There are a couple of cues that are very obvious. If you're not sure what the person is thinking, try looking at their facial expressions to get an idea of what the person is feeling. It'll be difficult to do for the first few times, but you'll get the hang of it after some attempts. Easier said than done though, I still have a lot of problems with this.

2. Have some empathy. Don't have to be overly concerned about what the person has to say, but think of what you're going to say and how it will affect them. I've offended many people because I didn't really think of what others would feel because of what I would say, but although there are some times that people would be oversensitive and would take offense to what you say (unintentionally, a la misinterpretation, etc.), you should avoid being crude in conversations. Instead of using formal words such as "beckon" or "return", use phrases such as "come back" or "call".

Take my advice with a grain of salt, I'm very asocial and introverted myself, but I've been trying to change a bit just to get along. Hope they help though.

Thank you for your help. I think I have a lot of empathy in conversations, so I mostly need to work on reading social cues.

[bmah]

Re: Help with Casual-Conversational Skills

When you have basically no working concept of empathy or any ability to predict how people will react to the things you say other than assuming they will react in the same way other people have reacted to it, this is a little easier said than done.

This is very true. I might also suggest a one-on-one Skype video call, since I suppose such cues and concepts need to be -shown- as opposed to being merely explained.

[Dynam0]

Re: Help with Casual-Conversational Skills

I had a roommate in university who acted very similarly in conversations; he was an incredibly nice guy with a big heart and a good sense of humour. I personally loved talking to him but that wasn't the case with others, simply because he wouldn't hold a conversation the same way some social butterfly would. Finding an end to a convo was difficult for him as well so I would have to give him hints or cues to let him know that we were done talking. I noticed a huge improvement in his ability to engage in social situations throughout the 3 years that I knew him while I was at school though.

I think the biggest help to you would be the understanding social cues point because you can find a way around a conversational barrier regardless of whether or not you have empathy (though empathy helps). I wouldn't beat yourself up over this too much though because as much as my roommate was awkward to chat with sometimes, it's what made him who he was and he was a genuine guy.

[Arch0wl]

Re: Help with Casual-Conversational Skills

conversations are one skill I've learned to get pretty good at so I'll drop a few things

1. question-commentary. there needs to be some kind of alternation. this is perhaps the most fundamental structure of conversation, and the most socially awkward people (like, beyond just "a little awkward") don't ask questions.

2. keep mental time of how long you are talking about shit. time is relative, 10 seconds past 60 seconds of you talking feels like forever, but the first 10 seconds of what you have to say doesn't feel long at all.

3. if there is an awkward silence it's because one of you doesn't know a good transition. think of one. ask something. comment on something. there is never a reason for an awkward silence in conversation.

4. make eye contact.

5. do not make extended direct eye contact unless you want to communicate that you want to fuck them. look at the spot directly above someone's eyebrow; this is the more effective place to look.

6. it's okay to break eye contact. people do this all the time. you just can't be looking down at the floor the whole time. if you have to look somewhere, look eye-level or up.

7. people who are bored with you will look down at something, usually.

8. they will also respond with less enthusiasm (shorter responses, less variation in tone, etc.)

9. they might also tense up (shoulders move toward neck)

honestly though

most of socialization is just pattern recognition. after you do enough of it, you will recognize certain patterns in communication and you will learn how to vary from those.

A lot of socialization is assumed common knowledge base. e.g. you can flirt with people who are 21+ in ways that you could not with people who are 18, because people who are three years younger have not spent that time acquainting themselves with the "metagame" of flirting. the same "metagame" concept exists for non-flirting socialization as well.

if you want to learn how to read body language well, take an acting course. you will feel like a massive idiot but that's normal, and you will learn a lot about body language that you didn't before. I've taken body language analysis courses, and I don't think they are as effective as actually getting in there and performing, then getting feedback on what you did, then analyzing what other people do and giving that same feedback.

empathy has nothing to do with any of this. I could be a complete psychopath and smooth over people socially. it's all pattern recognition.

[A2P]

Re: Help with Casual-Conversational Skills

or you could just give up and not care, like I do.

[rushyrulz]

Re: Help with Casual-Conversational Skills

Have you practised looking for visual cues in a conversation? It's important to decipher people's facial expressions and hand movements to help get a sense of how to go about characterizing your conversation. It's also important for you to make appropriate visual cues for the other person; for instance, if it's casual and friendly, smile a bit.

There's of course more to it than visual cues, but that'll help at least.

This. I've somehow gotten really good at reading people within the first 15 seconds of talking and changing myself to most suit the person I'm talking to. I don't know of anyone in real life that legitimately doesn't like me. On the internet it's a completely different story cuz fuck you people. jkily

Just try to adapt to your surroundings. The better you are at that, the more friends you will make (because you're better socially with the people you talk to.)

[thesunfan]

Re: Help with Casual-Conversational Skills

I feel like what I have to say probably isn't consistent with what everyone else has said so far, but I guess I'll say it anyways.

In high school, I was pretty goddamn awkward. When I got to college, I wasn't. None of it was empathy, or me trying to read other people, though I do think I got better at reading after I started college, it was just getting out and doing stuff like Freshman-only OA stuff at the rec where talking to people is a big part of it. I guess I do owe a lot to some people I met here, cracking me out of my shell, and from what it sounds like, you should probably try and find someone that can do that for you.

My 2c, hope it helps somewhat.

[DossarLX ODI]

Re: Help with Casual-Conversational Skills

What I have the most difficulty with is when someone is finishing what they are saying. Generally it's good to have some "thinking time" for the other person you're talking to so they don't feel rushed; sometimes people will stutter in their train of thought and say something along the lines of "well it, it, it, it's more like" and when that happens I just stay silent and listen rather than try to finish their sentences.

Sometimes there's also that time of silence after someone is talking with me because I'm not sure if they are done speaking or not and sometimes I accidentally speak when someone is still trying to finish their thoughts.

I try showing a light-hearted attitude to indicate that I am easy to approach. This helped me throughout high school and reduced awkward silences by a lot. The context is important as well; I wouldn't be making a million stepmania or FFR jokes to someone that doesn't go on this site, and so on.

[tosh]

Re: Help with Casual-Conversational Skills

Have you practised looking for visual cues in a conversation?

Maybe I'm just weird, but I'm much better at conversing if I can't see the person/people I'm talking with. You could blindfold me and I would have no problems keeping up a conversation. But actually looking at the person destroys my thought process.

[drizzleRomanceGirl]

Re: Help with Casual-Conversational Skills

I had a roommate in university who acted very similarly in conversations; he was an incredibly nice guy with a big heart and a good sense of humour. I personally loved talking to him but that wasn't the case with others, simply because he wouldn't hold a conversation the same way some social butterfly would. Finding an end to a convo was difficult for him as well so I would have to give him hints or cues to let him know that we were done talking. I noticed a huge improvement in his ability to engage in social situations throughout the 3 years that I knew him while I was at school though.

I think the biggest help to you would be the understanding social cues point because you can find a way around a conversational barrier regardless of whether or not you have empathy (though empathy helps). I wouldn't beat yourself up over this too much though because as much as my roommate was awkward to chat with sometimes, it's what made him who he was and he was a genuine guy.

Thank you for the advice. I'm going to try to read and pay attention to how the person I'm talking with is affected by the conversation so I can react naturally. ^.^

conversations are one skill I've learned to get pretty good at so I'll drop a few things

1. question-commentary. there needs to be some kind of alternation. this is perhaps the most fundamental structure of conversation, and the most socially awkward people (like, beyond just "a little awkward") don't ask questions.

2. keep mental time of how long you are talking about shit. time is relative, 10 seconds past 60 seconds of you talking feels like forever, but the first 10 seconds of what you have to say doesn't feel long at all.

3. if there is an awkward silence it's because one of you doesn't know a good transition. think of one. ask something. comment on something. there is never a reason for an awkward silence in conversation.

4. make eye contact.

5. do not make extended direct eye contact unless you want to communicate that you want to fuck them. look at the spot directly above someone's eyebrow; this is the more effective place to look.

6. it's okay to break eye contact. people do this all the time. you just can't be looking down at the floor the whole time. if you have to look somewhere, look eye-level or up.

7. people who are bored with you will look down at something, usually.

8. they will also respond with less enthusiasm (shorter responses, less variation in tone, etc.)

9. they might also tense up (shoulders move toward neck)

honestly though

most of socialization is just pattern recognition. after you do enough of it, you will recognize certain patterns in communication and you will learn how to vary from those.

A lot of socialization is assumed common knowledge base. e.g. you can flirt with people who are 21+ in ways that you could not with people who are 18, because people who are three years younger have not spent that time acquainting themselves with the "metagame" of flirting. the same "metagame" concept exists for non-flirting socialization as well.

if you want to learn how to read body language well, take an acting course. you will feel like a massive idiot but that's normal, and you will learn a lot about body language that you didn't before. I've taken body language analysis courses, and I don't think they are as effective as actually getting in there and performing, then getting feedback on what you did, then analyzing what other people do and giving that same feedback.

empathy has nothing to do with any of this. I could be a complete psychopath and smooth over people socially. it's all pattern recognition.

I understand; I'll try to ask questions and listen to the other person so that it becomes a balanced dialogue and not a monologue. I appreciate that you listed each tip and I'll try to keep these things in mind while speaking.

I feel like what I have to say probably isn't consistent with what everyone else has said so far, but I guess I'll say it anyways.

In high school, I was pretty goddamn awkward. When I got to college, I wasn't. None of it was empathy, or me trying to read other people, though I do think I got better at reading after I started college, it was just getting out and doing stuff like Freshman-only OA stuff at the rec where talking to people is a big part of it. I guess I do owe a lot to some people I met here, cracking me out of my shell, and from what it sounds like, you should probably try and find someone that can do that for you.

My 2c, hope it helps somewhat.

Yeah, that's probably part of the reason I'm not that good with social cues; I am going to try to participate in more college events and interact with more people. ^.^

What I have the most difficulty with is when someone is finishing what they are saying. Generally it's good to have some "thinking time" for the other person you're talking to so they don't feel rushed; sometimes people will stutter in their train of thought and say something along the lines of "well it, it, it, it's more like" and when that happens I just stay silent and listen rather than try to finish their sentences.

Sometimes there's also that time of silence after someone is talking with me because I'm not sure if they are done speaking or not and sometimes I accidentally speak when someone is still trying to finish their thoughts.

I try showing a light-hearted attitude to indicate that I am easy to approach. This helped me throughout high school and reduced awkward silences by a lot. The context is important as well; I wouldn't be making a million stepmania or FFR jokes to someone that doesn't go on this site, and so on.

I see; do you have any specific advice for exactly how to know when someone is finished speaking so there's not a pause at the end of the conversation?

P.S. Thank you for all of your advice, everyone! I'm learning a lot from all your different perspectives.

[SC_coolguy44]

Re: Help with Casual-Conversational Skills

I have some of the exact same conversation problems mentioned in this thread. I also have trouble starting conversations, just walking up to someone and saying hi, and telling someone what's on my mind (mostly this has something to do with the emotional side of things). Also, I feel when I'm in real life conversations that I appear to be very emotionless and expressionless and I don't want to come off that way. When I'm talking on the phone, I guess I could say my conversations are a little better. Also, I don't know if this is because of my awkwardness but my friends that are in my area (locally) or my high school friends have never really invited me to much of any social events/outings (I went to one I was invited to in college and felt left out because I was quiet the whole time and everyone was drinking and I was the only one who didn't drink).

[drizzleRomanceGirl]

Re: Help with Casual-Conversational Skills

I have some of the exact same conversation problems mentioned in this thread. I also have trouble starting conversations, just walking up to someone and saying hi, and telling someone what's on my mind (mostly this has something to do with the emotional side of things). Also, I feel when I'm in real life conversations that I appear to be very emotionless and expressionless and I don't want to come off that way. When I'm talking on the phone, I guess I could say my conversations are a little better. Also, I don't know if this is because of my awkwardness but my friends that are in my area (locally) or my high school friends have never really invited me to much of any social events/outings (I went to one I was invited to in college and felt left out because I was quiet the whole time and everyone was drinking and I was the only one who didn't drink).

Maybe you should ask your friends to invite you to more parties. I hope you will be perceived the way you'd like to be in a conversation! ^.^

[SC_coolguy44]

Re: Help with Casual-Conversational Skills

Maybe you should ask your friends to invite you to more parties. I hope you will be perceived the way you'd like to be in a conversation! ^.^

Well I do, but I still don't get invited. Over half the parties of my college friends are parties where they get drunk from what I heard and that's not my scene.