So let's talk about QED stepfiles. (Let's talk about StepMania actually.)

[TC_Cyrenics]

Re: So let's talk about QED stepfiles. (Let's talk about StepMania actually.)

I'll hold you like a DJ_Ossa simfile (see if anyone remember this)

Nothing you say can ever be taken seriously with an avatar of a Kermit puppet goatse'ing.

But no, seriously, it's subjectivity at its finest points. All files have their merit to someone, whether it's the creator or someone else around them.

Opinion: many simfiles that get rejected from packs, get done so because they appear unpolished and/or incomplete due to technical/stylistic reasons.

[Mrjonesw]

Re: So let's talk about QED stepfiles. (Let's talk about StepMania actually.)

http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/profile/Dj_Ossa/

holy shit there's no way the other profile could possibly be dj ossa now especially since he couldn't possibly have an alt. well played.

[DJMAYYYNE]

Re: So let's talk about QED stepfiles. (Let's talk about StepMania actually.)

I love my laptop and I have sex with it everyday. Also, I love my girfriend, who's really hot btw roflowned.

[DossarLX ODI]

Re: So let's talk about QED stepfiles. (Let's talk about StepMania actually.)

Why would he do that

In fact, I could say what you're saying for everything else. "There's no way DossarLX ODI on omgdidinsane.com could be Dossar now especially since he couldn't possibly have an alt!" - And that was an imposter, by the way

[Lain_Iwakura]

Re: So let's talk about QED stepfiles. (Let's talk about StepMania actually.)

-when I say QED is taking away from established simfile authors, I mean taking away what they should think a good stepfile is. by being exposed to QED's simfiles first, combined with his manipulations of how his simfiles are really good, it creates a person that sees established, legitimately good simfile author files and thinks they are somehow bad in comparison. they should be playing other simfiles, really, nearly any other simfile besides things that QED makes because it sets them off on the wrong foot from step one.

-people that restep and release files for the attention. releasing files is fine, restepping files that have already been stepped to the satisfaction of the community and releasing them is being an attention whore in my opinion. example 1) over the ocean by Malice. it's been stepped here on FFR, by Puppet, and by dondon151. Malice's version was the first, and probably the best one (opinion). Yet, it was stepped on three different occasions with little true success. example 2) shind bad by pfx. besides the countless nobodies that have restepped this on bemanistyle and the ffr simfile database, Dew was the only other person to have restepped this with any sort of true replay value, and only by making it nine billion times harder and making it strictly a scoring file to be played for difficulty only with little emphasis (if any) on fun.
Typically, most files that are stepped don't get resteps. There are exceptions where the resteps are a welcome change, case in point Cross Time (originally stepped by Laggy) was restepped again later by chodasaibaka in the Dark Chancellors Pack and was looked on with generally favorable reviews, citing the difficulty change and new stepping style was refreshing.
Stepmania most definitely has a 'this is the level for this song', its called the foot rating/groove radar/number rating. There are quite a few established systems I still know of, including the DDR rating system both before 10 footers were released, after true 10 footers were released (MAX300 and the like), and the current DDR rating system which goes into the 20s I believe? There also is the ITG rating system which typically goes up to 15-16? There is also the legacy Stepmania difficulty rating system which more or less was decided roughly by the community (anything 10+ was typically for keyboard with some exceptions, 9 and below was for pad), and the newer Dark Chancellors difficulty rating system which went up to 10 I believe and was only for keyboard files. Also Stepmania came before FFR, its hard to say it didn't have structure before the game that it was based off of.

-defining good is defined by the community at large. if I was to take a poll of the entire active stepmania community, most would agree that in the very least, QED's files are either bad, misled, need improvement, are not keyboard files, etc. You really should go download his simfiles and test them out for yourself. Because you've been exposed to good files already, it should be okay to expose you to QED files. Regardless, the opinion you form of them is your own and even if you like them, it (while angering me) will not make me care too much in the long run, as the majority are steadfast in opposing the kind of ideals QED stands for when he speaks and makes simfiles.

[Jousway]

Re: So let's talk about QED stepfiles. (Let's talk about StepMania actually.)

Ah, you are correct. The problem is Jousway purposely leaves out details (such as what he initially PM'd QED) to make points that are very biased. I do apologize for that, but I'm glad that question got answered. Which gives the notion that Jousway may have influenced an opinion upon QED before the thread was even read, which I believe he did.

The problem is, and I will stand by it, he was incapable of answering some questions, even the ones I didn't ask. I would have a been a lot more considerate if he would have addressed that he is one of many steppers, and that no style is correct. But he made a point that you don't need to be technical, and it only makes sense that criticism will come along. Just like any argument, you need to address the counter arguments that may come at you.

I don't appreciate the representation he made of SM, as if he was the only one that knew what to do. I asked him specifically what other communities may help me, and he said something along the lines of "there are some out there, not really sure." You, QED, and I are well aware of what we say and what intentions we have in phrasing certain answers. For him to continuously present his email and youtube was a bit narcissistic. Even simple things like the program should have been credited. He didn't create the program, so what's the fault in saying "go to stepmania.com if you want to know more about the program" or something similar? I have a lot of issues in the way he conducted, all excluding the approach and organization (which I could go on for hours about). But plagiarism is never a good thing, whether intentional or unintentional. It's something you learn when you create your first history report in middle school (not meant to belittle yours or QED's intelligence, just a general statement). It's not accepted in music, literature, art, or any other expressive outlet of creativity. It's based on the ethics that taking credit for someone else's work is immoral. Whether or not it's right, we could debate for years. But the fact is if he wouldn't like someone taking credit for his work, then the same should apply. I don't mean simfiles, I mean programs, progress over the years in simfile creation, leaving out important information about communities, disregarding questions about pads because they don't interest you, etc.

This is where I have issues, and I'm going to stand by them.

dude stop that its like you are trying to kick me in the balls on purpose
the reason I didnt show the QED PM's is because it wouldnt be nice right, like you already were mad at me one time about what happened on SMO and now I should show them I dunno.
only you might see it as arrogant or whatever, but I'm just saying the way I saw things for the last year and an half, and look at my posts and what I said, its not like I'm trying to destroy ffr, I want it to improve for newer players because the join rate is really small, like srsly stop countering everything I say, its just my opinion.

[DossarLX ODI]

Re: So let's talk about QED stepfiles. (Let's talk about StepMania actually.)

Sorry - I misread that post, it was talking about the possibility.

It's just that happening to have the person's name in your username isn't really a firm reason to confirm someone as an alt. The join date could also have been a coincidence - but that wasn't what his post was about

[Lain_Iwakura]

Re: So let's talk about QED stepfiles. (Let's talk about StepMania actually.)

To counter your point on the restepped files are made merely for attention, I'll bring up this statement you made. You have the right to your opinion, but in no way can it be made fact. Just like mine. But if you don't like the resteps, you don't have to play them. You don't have to play FFR/SM either.

Inconsistency in an argument can create broken points, so do you believe restepped files are made for attention or do you abide by your statement that if one doesn't like the way a file is made, then he/she doesn't have to play it?

I'd also add that the point to making that statement was to support the idea that there is no wrong way to step. Because of that, resteps are in no way wrong, and can have all kinds of reasons to be stepped. You're making two points here that contradict each other.

yep, I typically don't say something is my opinion because it is usually pretty obvious it is but apparently this was not the case here

my opinion is that restepped files are made for attention

my opinion is that if people don't like the way files are made, they don't have to play them

my opinion is that there is no wrong way to step; regardless if a file is restepped it is for attention

people do not have to play these resteps but people do, this is a fact

a lot of the time resteps make new, more interesting files, but a lot of the times people just ask why the file was restepped

resteps are not wrong, but they can be made for any number of reasons including attention.

i honestly do not see how these points conflict, people step files, people restep files, people play restep files, people don't play restep files, sometimes the resteps are bad, sometimes they are good, i personally think resteps are made for attention

[ddrxero64]

Re: So let's talk about QED stepfiles. (Let's talk about StepMania actually.)

Message was deleted due to the length of time it took to edit a part in versus how much traffic this thread receives. I don't do this often, so I apologize if it bothered you. Thanks in advance.

If you don't like how the simfiles in FFR are made today, don't play them and don't play FFR. The standards of FFR (and stepmania really) exist because the majority of the community abides by these standards.

To counter your point on the restepped files are made merely for attention, I'll bring up this statement you made. You have the right to your opinion, but in no way can it be made fact. Just like mine. But if you don't like the resteps, you don't have to play them. You don't have to play FFR/SM either.

Inconsistency in an argument can create broken points, so do you believe restepped files are made for attention or do you abide by your statement that if one doesn't like the way a file is made, then he/she doesn't have to play it?

I'd also add that the point to making that statement was to support the idea that there is no wrong way to step. Because of that, resteps are in no way wrong, and can have all kinds of reasons to be stepped. You're making two points here that contradict each other.

holy shit there's no way the other profile could possibly be dj ossa now especially since he couldn't possibly have an alt. well played.

Well he could have made both back in the day. They have the same length membership, and it was used to post at the same time he posted on SMO. He could have his reasons for using that account, and it's no mere coincidence that his name happens to match the account from the same time his DJ Ossa account was made. Reasons it could have been used:

1) He has access to both, and had an alt for whatever reason. He has now decided to use this account for his own personal reasons, whatever they may be.

2) He has decided to stop using his old account for whatever reasons. Being last logged in April 21st and coming back to post 8 days later is signficant. Especially when his post on SMO was made hours ago, and he had the time to log back in to his FFR account and update his activity. There is a reason he has chosen not to use his other account, and it may be personal or beneficial. I could go deeper, but no need to.

At this point, I could name more. All speculations, but analyzing a situation is crucial before making a clear argument. Why would it be impossible for him to have an alt? I know I have one here as well, before ddrXero64 became my username. What it is, I will never know, it was probably used with an old email from a friend in middle school before I had one. It's lost in the sea of abandoned accounts. But yes, this is an example of analyzing all perspectives on an argument before making your statement.

the reason I didnt show the QED PM's is because it wouldnt be nice right, like you already were mad at me one time about what happened on SMO and now I should show them

You had no right to post information from a moderator's thread, and you had no permission. This can apply to QED as well, but you felt it was right to tell us he PM'd you, which that too is private, Only you would know if he PM'd you or not. You chose to say he did but you didn't release what he said to protect him for whatever reason. But of course, by asking permission, you could have been granted the permission to release it. Why you didn't ask, I'm not sure. You could have simply not thought about that, which doesn't change the fact you still should've. Or you could have opted not to on purpose, which is possible part of the way you styled your argument. I was mad yes. Do I hold grudges? No.

its not like I'm trying to destroy ffr, I want it to improve for newer players because the join rate is really small, like srsly stop countering everything I say, its just my opinion.

You aren't trying to destroy FFR, but you've been quote at least 3 times from my own view to want SMO to die out. Seeing that FFR isn't the only community that consists of "players," as used in this statement, it doesn't support the fact that you truly want to improve the join rate.

You have countered just about everything I've said, and I stand firm by my decisions. Yet your tone has shifted from repeatedly pessimistic, considerate, insulting, passive, and so on. And opinions aren't facts, so they will never be treated as so. They can be countered. Why would I counter a fact? Unless I could prove it wrong. But opinions are used to make informed decisions that will affect the future of what the results are of that decision.

If you want me to stop countering, I can't guarantee I will. But it's safe to say you'd have an easier time explaining why you want me to counter. You can't expect to tell someone "stop countering" and it magically happens, especially on a thread built on debate. If you truly want to avoid getting an opinion countered, don't post it. If you can't sacrifice that, then your argument has shifted from the original topic to why you don't want me to counter you.

[Jousway]

Re: So let's talk about QED stepfiles. (Let's talk about StepMania actually.)

You have countered just about everything I've said, and I stand firm by my decisions. Yet your tone has shifted from repeatedly pessimistic, considerate, insulting, passive, and so on. And opinions aren't facts, so they will never be treated as so. They can be countered. Why would I counter a fact? Unless I could prove it wrong. But opinions are used to make informed decisions that will affect the future of what the results are of that decision.

If you want me to stop countering, I can't guarantee I will. But it's safe to say you'd have an easier time explaining why you want me to counter. You can't expect to tell someone "stop countering" and it magically happens, especially on a thread built on debate. If you truly want to avoid getting an opinion countered, don't post it. If you can't sacrifice that, then your argument has shifted from the original topic to why you don't want me to counter you.

you tied to counter like EVERYTHING I said in my posts, every time I make an post you counter it, other people just read it an are like okey, but its like you try to counter my posts as a living in this thread, like srsly wth

[Chariot]

Re: So let's talk about QED stepfiles. (Let's talk about StepMania actually.)

Stepmania most definitely has a 'this is the level for this song', its called the foot rating/groove radar/number rating.

Sorry about this, I meant level as in stepfile, aka a level in a game. But, you see, Stepmania is so unconventional compared to other games in that it has no "levels" that it was easy for you to make this mistake, and that's my point: Stepmania has no "levels". A person is not chosen to make an "official" level (that is, stepfile) for any song. So, it's not like anything can only be "stepped once". Something can be stepped an infinite amount of times, and it's anyone's right to step whatever they want.

they should be playing other simfiles, really

I gathered from this thread that this is the mentality we're trying to avoid. Trying to tell people what they should think is fun is what got us where we are now in terms of technical nightmares, elitism, and everything else about the "correct" way to experience Stepmania. People need to make that decision on their own, and they ultimately have to anyway. I am also extremely confused about this statement because earlier you said

this is how i feel about QED at this point in time

1) his style of stepping isn't wrong

so I don't quite know what to think. Look, I can argue that people should be listening to better music than _____ or watching better movies than _____ or watching better anime than _____ or _______________ but at the end of the day, people will like what they like. Lots of people like files like QED's for whatever reasons, first and foremost probably being that they like the music because it's anime music, and then perhaps they think the easy nature of the files is enjoyable and the patterns are perhaps fun to them. Who knows. I also don't know why people like half of the music that's out there today, but it doesn't do any good to wish they would like actual "good" music because the music they like is popular, and they're in a majority, and it's never going to go away. I really think that many, many people will like "bad" files, across all the time Stepmania is around; it's what makes finding the people who like the "good" files much more worthwhile.

[Mrjonesw]

Re: So let's talk about QED stepfiles. (Let's talk about StepMania actually.)

wall of text debating my very obviously sarcastic comment to dossar which he seems to have understood very well

ok

[ddrxero64]

Re: So let's talk about QED stepfiles. (Let's talk about StepMania actually.)

ok

You know, I don't catch sarcasm sometimes lol.. I have a friend who can't catch it to save her life lmao

deja vu, I swear I made this post before.

Edit: Oh I see, I made my post before Dossar posted that. Then I edited it because I forgot something, and I deleted it and reposted it because of the amount of time it took me to edit it (read top of post). That's why I didn't see that post.

[Mrjonesw]

Re: So let's talk about QED stepfiles. (Let's talk about StepMania actually.)

lmao gotcha. yeah i realize internet sarcasm kinda doesn't work but i figured no one would take me seriously.

[Lain_Iwakura]

Re: So let's talk about QED stepfiles. (Let's talk about StepMania actually.)

QED's style of stepping isn't wrong in the sense that you can do anything in stepmania and no one can stop you but

it's what makes finding the people who like the "good" files much more worthwhile.

and finding those people who like the "good" files definitely become harder to find if exposed to the wrong element from the very beginning, which is why I have problems with QED simfiles in general

its hard not to be biased in Stepmania because everything is opinions and subjectivemanias but I do kind of understand how QED operates and while it's pretty much against everything I stand for, Stepmania passed the 'golden age' a long time ago where the 'age of Stepmania innocence' reigned and the only drama we really had were people getting called BS on and OMG USING CMODS IS CHEATING. This game will never return to that time.


in summation: i don't like QED or his 'stepmania values' or the way he steps, but I deal with it and voice my opinions as a result.