So let's talk about QED stepfiles. (Let's talk about StepMania actually.)

[sakura080789]

Re: So let's talk about QED stepfiles. (Let's talk about StepMania actually.)

Files have become shittier over the years. I don't care about music theory BS or how well your steps match the crescendo of the seventh key in FU minor. They all suck. One of the reasons I quit playing keyboard rhythm games was (aside from hand damage) that the files have just turned into shit. Too many awkward patterns and overcomplicated crapgluts.

It reminds me a lot of the food industry, actually. If you go to high-end restaurants in NYC or in Europe, the craze now is centered around molecular gastronomy and bringing meals to the next level. Unfortunately, this usually results in things like... flavored foam and liquid nitrogen. Yes, it may be technically cool. Yes, it may be advanced compared to what your grandma made. Yes, it may be the nexus of the pinnacle of the apex of the synergy between the cultural revolutionary BSitudinal dialectic and the social commentary on the progression of technological application all wrapped together and presented in one huge ego-stroking orgasm. But at the end of the day, son of a bitch I just want my ****ing steak and potatoes.

When you get good at something, it can become boring. Eventually you have to make things challenging for yourself by playing like Madmatt, who keeps himself busy by vibrate-raping the pad brackets in order to match the speeds of some 9001 BPM fuckstream because anything slower is a guaranteed 98%+.

But that doesn't mean you have to keep making your files more and more ridiculous. Even an easy file can be fun. It eventually starts to become a community where anything easy is bashed and anything challenging is lauded. It drives people away until the community basically rests on a few elitist assholes, and then when they start leaving too, it's all dead.

In other words, people need to be OK with making easier files. You need to be OK with stepping a file because the song is cool and the steps are fun. We need creativity -- which is what made DDR/Stepmania fun over the years -- and not monotonous, braindead, algorithmic application of steps.

^this oh snap Reincarnate you read my mind. i am not gonna lie there are new style charts i enjoy but alot of my SM time is playing old KBC, F4/F5, even the Long Versions Packs those i enjoyed. but like the LCMP and DCMP i also like there are certain patterns that make the files quite epic im not really gonna dump on the new style of charting but i have grown to like quite a few of the new charts and simfile creators. i think it would be nice to take a step back in time to make a few packs of old school stepcharts though it would be fun for the new players as well as the veterans who enjoy the old charts

[ddrxero64]

Re: So let's talk about QED stepfiles. (Let's talk about StepMania actually.)

/trollpost

Jousway, you really have no logic in your post. I'm not calling his style wrong, he is wrong for thinking his style is superior. You're taking the chance to quote me and try to prove me wrong over personal grudges, stop acting so childish. Even I have a bit more insight on simfile making than you, and I don't even have much experience. But unlike you, I'm willing to play a song I can't pass and enjoy it because it was stepped pretty creatively.

Look over your post, I'm not talking about his style, I'm talking about his attitude. Do you even register the sentences coming out of your mouth (metaphorically speaking, because I can already tell you'll be the person to take that literally and say you're typing not speaking, hole in logic covered, try to find some other petty detail to rant on about) before you open it?

I really think that Reincarnate's idea would be awesome. But guess what? It's going to be tough for a lot of people to lower their standards. People have become so accustomed to judging files with such a technical eye that they can't enjoy a file without pitch relevancy. I feel that people are more focused on how the file is stepped versus how fun it is. Of course everyone just said this, but now imagine you really do start this. Will people be able to lower their standards? If so, to what? Who will be the "credible" judges for it? You still need judges, because some files can be out of sync, which is never a stylistic thing to do. A lot of these questions will seem easier now, but when the time comes no one will be able to agree on certain things.

If it came down to it, I'd strip everyone of their reputation and treat everyone's file submissions equal. Don't expect Person A's file to be better than Person B's. I actually think it would be cool to have:

An anonymous submission pack. Every file is going to be anonymously submitted, no one will know you stepped it. Right before the pack is released, everyone announces the song they stepped and uploads their cdtitle. How the judges will be picked I wouldn't know, I don't plan on arguing over things like that. But I would suggest 3 REALLY different judges. One who's technical on everything (whether keyboard or pad), one who could care less about rules and more about fun, and one who knows nothing about judging and just enjoys the game. This type of experiment could give people insight on how the stepmania community really views styles and songs.

Edit: To be honest, if this did happen I wouldn't mind being the guy to receive all the files and distribute them to the judges. I'm used to organizing lists and thoughts, and I could create some analyses on the trends of reviews as compared to who stepped it, how it was stepped, etc. I don't plan to judge it at all, but I would be thoroughly interested in keeping the validity of an experiment like this.

[AsphyxZero]

Re: So let's talk about QED stepfiles. (Let's talk about StepMania actually.)

I have an idea. Why not try an interesting experiment: A sort of community-created simfile. Everyone decides on a file, and then the song itself is split up into portions and people vote/debate on how the steps should fit for the sake of maximizing fun. Other new ideas can be proposed in terms of background animations, etc.

Actually a couple of us from profile chat are doing this for a FFR file. I would love to try something like this for SM.

[qqwref]

Re: So let's talk about QED stepfiles. (Let's talk about StepMania actually.)

I have an idea. Why not try an interesting experiment: A sort of community-created simfile. Everyone decides on a file, and then the song itself is split up into portions and people vote/debate on how the steps should fit for the sake of maximizing fun. Other new ideas can be proposed in terms of background animations, etc.

A while ago I was thinking of making a little minipack by choosing some interesting and complicated songs, and then having people vote and work together to make the most fun and interesting file possible (while going to the music of course). I ended up not bothering though.

An anonymous submission pack. Every file is going to be anonymously submitted, no one will know you stepped it.

That's an interesting idea too, but then you'd get files from people like me.


I don't really like the current brand of technical file so much either; that's why when I open up SM I spend much more time playing dumps. I think going to the song at some level is an *essential* part of what makes a chart good, but if you try to put too much into a file it just becomes awkward and annoying to play. Look at some of Xandertrax's harder files, where he tried to go to the song as much as possible. Look at most xoon type charts. Minifreezes, hands all over the place, jacks for no obvious reason, stupid bursts, totally overcharted jumpstream sections, all those problems are the same.

If we want more people in the community, we need more good easy files. It's really as simple as that - people like to play files at the difficulties they are comfortable with, so if left to their own devices the good players will make files that most people have no chance of passing. A good easy file should be (a) roughly onbeat and related to the song, and (b) not so easy that it's boring. Other than that, there's really nothing objective you can say. And if the new players want to play files specifically because they like the song, so be it. QED has the right idea, although he totally fails in attitude.

[ddrxero64]

Re: So let's talk about QED stepfiles. (Let's talk about StepMania actually.)

If we want more people in the community, we need more good easy files. It's really as simple as that - people like to play files at the difficulties they are comfortable with

Pretty much. Be careful with that though, there have been packs like that already. Patashu said his Super Meat Boy pack was full of easy charts, and even though I haven't played it I believe it. You also need to promote these easy charts as much as you do the hard ones. It ties in with welcoming new members and encouraging them to play these packs. I think it's awesome when someone who isn't as good can play the same song as you on SMO on an easier chart. Believe it or not this happens a lot with OD, which is why there is a good sized OD fanbase. The technical people love the hard charts while the people who aren't quite good can enjoy their anime openings on easier charts.

All of you that play SMO should know who Eduardo/Eduardo-sama is, the guy who always goes on and plays the same OD songs for hours. He did it a lot more before, especially before the shut down of the original server, now he goes on every so often. But I mean all he plays are the OD packs. What I didn't know is that he plays all the 8-10 footer charts, especially standard. I can enter the room with him and enjoy a song on 12 while he plays it on heavy 10 (Chain, Air Gear, 2nd Anime Mix). It's things like this that can close the gap between new players and pros. That and not treating them like crap when they upload an easy score they're proud of.

[Gundam-Dude]

Re: So let's talk about QED stepfiles. (Let's talk about StepMania actually.)

Good read and covers pretty much my ideals for present day SM.

I'll admit, I was a try-hard and wanted to be recognized as a PoPuLaR simfile author like QED but along the lines of the eLiTiST spectrum with all that Dark and Light Chancellor bullshit. When I finally did get "recognized" as some elitist new school simfile author, I realized that I'm not satisfied at all. On the contrary, I've learned that being elitist about the way simfiles are stepped is absolute bullshit and goes absolutely no where. And in the end, I don't even like more than half of the stuff that's being produced nowadays but I rarely do I ever complain.

Back in 2009/2010 I shared the close-minded ideal that "-this- simfile should be stepped in -this- method" but there are just so many ways to layer and represent a song that it's nearly impossible to choose one, single way to do it without completely re-stepping it as your own file to please -your- ideals. Having judged for several megapacks throughout the years, I learned that almost every single individual that plays SM has their own preference and criteria as to what designates a "good" file, which creates a huge inconsistency and confusion as to how a song "should be stepped". Playing and reviewing countless files from different simfile authors from communities all over the place also helped open up my viewpoint towards simfile making as it has shown me that there really is no -correct- way to step a file because everyone has their own unique preference and criteria. It's also impossible to make a simfile pack everyone will enjoy; there will always be people who dislike files and packs regardless.

Present day, I'm very open minded to different ways to step and represent any song and I'm quite carefree and lenient with judging/reviewing. I see no reason to enforce any sort of elitism onto people because as I mentioned there is no -correct- way to step. I couldn't care less about being 200% technically correct because I myself break -technical- stepping conventions in order to make songs more interesting to play. As long as the file is fun and interesting to play, that's all that really matters to me nowadays. As an example, I can outright say that I like every single file in LCP3 (this is why you didn't see me post a public review when the pack released. I can honestly, wholeheartedly say that I enjoy every single file in the pack, some more than others, but that's already an impressive feat itself). If you thought that there was some sort of elitist criteria used to determine what files were pack-worthy, you're wrong. I judged the pack solely based on fun/interesting factor and what was the result? A large pack that has gotten quite good feedback with tons of variety in song choice and diversity. Sure, the pack name itself still contributes to the so-called elitist spectrum and it only encompassed a select group of people, but the point of it was to give a starting point to break that -set standard- of elitism by appealing to a larger majority as opposed to a small inner circle of elitist circlejerkers. It's also part of the reason as to why I made the decision to disband the LiGHT CHaNCeLLoRS after pack release (I was completely serious. LC is dead for good).

To put it simply, I'm tired of elitist bullshit and don't see a point in dividing up communities even further by isolating a small inner circle of simfile authors when pretty much anyone can make a file that people would enjoy, even appealing to a larger demographic than any elitists (see QED). Step files to appeal to yourself and to match your criteria as to what designates a "fun and interesting" file. If others like your file, that's just an added bonus knowing that you're not the only person that likes it. Also, be aware that it's nearly impossible to appeal to every single person on the planet; there will always be people that will dislike your file so you should learn to cope with that.

On the topic of QED, I couldn't care less about the way in which he chooses to step. The only problem with him is that he's way too passive-aggressive and emotional about his viewpoint towards how simfiles should be stepped.

[ddrxero64]

Re: So let's talk about QED stepfiles. (Let's talk about StepMania actually.)

LCP 3 has gotten some of the best reviews I've seen for a while. All kinds of players said they enjoyed, so I'm glad you shared that. All of this really has to be redefined if this community is to expand again.

[Jousway]

Re: So let's talk about QED stepfiles. (Let's talk about StepMania actually.)

k thanks for proving me again that you are an idiot ddrxero thinking I was trolling, I already putted you on my ignore list age's ago but I thought about just reading your posts in this thread because I was serious in this thread, sorry for thinking one moment that your brains are good enough to even understand what I was saying, oh well I'll never read your posts again, have fun

[ddrxero64]

Re: So let's talk about QED stepfiles. (Let's talk about StepMania actually.)

k thanks for proving me again that you are an idiot ddrxero thinking I was trolling, I already putted you on my ignore list age's ago but I thought about just reading your posts in this thread because I was serious in this thread, sorry for thinking one moment that your brains are good enough to even understand what I was saying, oh well I'll never read your posts again, have fun

I'll create a subforum for you on SMO, where it's all about you. Feeling sorry for you, trying to have sympathy for you, putting a topic that has nothing to do with you based on you, and you can argue with yourself all you want. As a matter of fact, I'll create a special group where only you'll see the forum, so that way it can really be all about you and how you are the center of all threads.

Back on topic.

I plan to start stepping again and forget any other tasks I have for now. I might as well seeing that my retirement might be closer than I thought. Maybe this can add to the files that aren't always technically correct but still fun.

[Jousway]

Re: So let's talk about QED stepfiles. (Let's talk about StepMania actually.)

also you guys are like "dont defend QED" and "QED is an elites whore" or w/e but take a look at some of the posts of QED on ffr we all know he was going around saying he is an elite and everything because according to his logic he was right, most people have this, like 90% of the world is arrogant and thinks every thing they do is best, QED stepped his way and that was good, you guy's disagreed with his stepping and tried to help him but he rejected your offers and said you were wrong, like look at this http://forums.animeboston.com/showpost.php?post/203370/
like I said before QED wasnt wrong, you guys wernt wrong because who can define the right way to step files, there is no right or wrong way, like its an bloody game, but every time I see people going QED is wrong, you know what, believe what you want, believe that every file on here is the best, OD people, believe that you made the best files, but still QED got a giant fan group that support him because they like his files, even if they are wrong acording to ffr standards, I'm not suporting him or anything, I'm just saying, both sides weren't wrong, and in the end QED just gave up and left because you all started to toll the **** out of him

edit: also forgot to say but you guys keep saying QED has an massive ego, well put yourself in his shoes, you want to make files fun in your own way, people try to give you help and you reject them and they all start to troll the shit out of you, how would you react if that happend to you, just think about that

[Lain_Iwakura]

Re: So let's talk about QED stepfiles. (Let's talk about StepMania actually.)

tl;dr qed doesnt take criticism and it was a bad idea for him to do a stepmania panel

nick was legitimately high when he wrote that post by the way

[Kraezymann]

Re: So let's talk about QED stepfiles. (Let's talk about StepMania actually.)

I don't even know who he is

But at least I know I should finally play LCP3

[Patashu]

Re: So let's talk about QED stepfiles. (Let's talk about StepMania actually.)

by the way super meat boy pack is now at over 1600 downloads

[i love you]

Re: So let's talk about QED stepfiles. (Let's talk about StepMania actually.)

Very good read. Been thinking about what nick said for hours and now i think I'm going to try and support the beginner players somehow. (After i finish like 5 more packs or something)

@Patashu: Wow o_o

[xferrarix]

Re: So let's talk about QED stepfiles. (Let's talk about StepMania actually.)

This thread is really deep for something concerning a stepper I've never heard of and Stepmania in general. Very interesting read from most of the posts so far. My opinion really is how we perceive stepping. On FFR we're technical and if your file doesn't completely follow those guidelines then it's not considered good unless it's a "fun" file. I see that QED is a very different person from other people within these communities.

Most opinions are biased within the world today; let's consider art for example. One man may buy the weirdest piece of art imaginable for thousands of dollars because he sees beauty in it. Another may look at it and find it to be worth nothing more than a dollar. The relation to Stepmania and how we see it is obvious at this point: everyone has their own opinions that we can't really change. QED, from what I've read, sounds to have an incredibly huge ego when it comes to his stepfiles. He takes no opinions from anyone from here or really any other Stepmania players. Yes, I just made a relation to the real world to Stepmania. Shoot me some other time

There's positives and negatives to that. The people who enjoy his files now will continue to enjoy them because his style will never change or shift. The negatives are that, on this side of Stepmania, we won't ever like his files. Sorry if I stated a lot of obvious things that were already clarified. I'm only trying to bring a small view to light that not every person who plays this game will see it as people over here do. To be completely honest if I showed my friend who knows nothing about this game he'd even consider QED to be a good step maker. Then if I showed him a file from, let's say any file in the Light Chancellor Pack 3, he'd make a quick comment about the difficulty and won't bother playing it.

I can tell from Stepmania trends lately that people are leaning towards files with many difficulties. In the future I think most files should follow that in order that we can attract more Dance Dance Revolution enthusiasts and other rhythm game fans into Stepmania. It really is a good game for people into that sort of thing, and for most people to not get into it because of "one hard file" is what is dragging this game down.