Why Chinese Mothers are Superior

[dag12]

Re: Why Chinese Mothers are Superior

If this is true, then explain why this isn't a stereotype among Hispanics, who usually perform worse than the average American?

Well, simply put, because the asians who come to the country have to come over a whole ocean to reestablish their lives. You have to have some degree of pre-established resources to do that. Also, they tend to be well-educated and have professional jobs, so they want their childrens to be as likewise.
On the other hand, hispancs simply have to cross the border. They have nothing to lose, since they're often poor from the beginning. As such, they want their children to work right after high school, so their children also are unable to obtain a post-secondary education.
This is what creates the gap between immigrants from different countries, and the dichotomy in performance between Asian-Americans and Latin-Americans - there's already an inherent gap in resources and familial values from the start.

[Xx{Midnight}xX]

Re: Why Chinese Mothers are Superior

"Western parents try to respect their children's individuality, encouraging them to pursue their true passions, supporting their choices, and providing positive reinforcement and a nurturing environment.

This made me laugh.

[DossarLX ODI]

Re: Why Chinese Mothers are Superior

"You wanna know how you can help your children?
Leave them the fuck alone!"
-George Carlin

http://www.snipeme.com/archive.php?year=2008&rant=no_selfdefense

http://www.snipeme.com/archive.php?year=2004&rant=victimization

http://www.snipeme.com/archive.php?year=2005&rant=older

http://www.snipeme.com/archive.php?year=2006&rant=question_authority

http://www.snipeme.com/archive.php?year=2007&rant=ageist_fallacies

My parents "leave me the fuck alone" (for the most part) and I can say that's the best thing they've ever done for me AT ALL, and also the reason why I've been able to get the highest grades I can possible and actually value my efforts

[dag12]

Re: Why Chinese Mothers are Superior

"You wanna know how you can help your children?
Leave them the fuck alone!"
-George Carlin

http://www.snipeme.com/archive.php?year=2008&rant=no_selfdefense

http://www.snipeme.com/archive.php?year=2004&rant=victimization

http://www.snipeme.com/archive.php?year=2005&rant=older

http://www.snipeme.com/archive.php?year=2006&rant=question_authority

http://www.snipeme.com/archive.php?year=2007&rant=ageist_fallacies

My parents "leave me the fuck alone" (for the most part) and I can say that's the best thing they've ever done for me AT ALL, and also the reason why I've been able to get the highest grades I can possible and actually value my efforts

Excerpted from http://www.snipeme.com/archive.php?y...no_selfdefense:
"I, for one, hope this starts a trend. I hope more young people will respond to violence with violence. Many will say that I'm encouraging the destruction of the "traditional family" and to that I say you're goddamn right I am! When the vast majority of child abusers are parents, it is starkly clear that the traditional family is exactly the sort of place where bad things happen. "

No, but really. The concept of inter-generational equality, as the website calls it, is ridiculous.

[Minati]

Re: Why Chinese Mothers are Superior

"You wanna know how you can help your children?
Leave them the fuck alone!"
-George Carlin

http://www.snipeme.com/archive.php?year=2008&rant=no_selfdefense

http://www.snipeme.com/archive.php?year=2004&rant=victimization

http://www.snipeme.com/archive.php?year=2005&rant=older

http://www.snipeme.com/archive.php?year=2006&rant=question_authority

http://www.snipeme.com/archive.php?year=2007&rant=ageist_fallacies

My parents "leave me the fuck alone" (for the most part) and I can say that's the best thing they've ever done for me AT ALL, and also the reason why I've been able to get the highest grades I can possible and actually value my efforts

Your parents "left you the fuck alone" and so you ended up playing Stepmania for all these years when you could've done something else like learning a sport or learning an instrument. Congratulations. Your parents "left you the fuck alone" and that's why you use George Carlin (who is an excellent comedian, I'll agree with that), and this.. "snipeme.com" as some sort of reliable source for supporting the fact that parents should leave their kids "the fuck alone."

Sorry to say, but leaving kids "the fuck alone" has never been a good parenting choice, if not the worst. That has been tested by time and time again.

[dag12]

Re: Why Chinese Mothers are Superior

From

http://www.snipeme.com/archive.php?year=2006&rant=question_authority

"One of the biggest bullshit lines that I hear from people all the time is that you shouldn't question authority, not even when authority is obviously wrong."

The problem is, more often than not, parents are right - after all, they do have much more experience. They may not be infallible, but I'm almost certain that they're more capable of making a rational, intelligent decision than their child. I consult my parents all the time, and I respect them because they know what they're doing.

Now, I'm not saying that children should always act obsequiously; I'm just saying that I don't think this article is particularly relevant to the parent-child relationship. I just don't think a parent-child relationship is one that can be entirely relegated to a authority figure-follower relationship.

[DossarLX ODI]

Re: Why Chinese Mothers are Superior

Main reason why I posted those is because interestingly enough, it seems like most of the child abuse actually occurs at the home according to statistical data.

There have been many cases where my parents simply just don't listen to me and they just yell at me to do something. And I have to lie to them, and I don't feel safe talking to them at all. They pretty much forced me to break any close ties whatsoever. So if any of you are willing to, elaborate more on why you think it is "ridiculous" please.

[Minati]

Re: Why Chinese Mothers are Superior

Main reason why I posted those is because interestingly enough, it seems like most of the child abuse actually occurs at the home according to statistical data.

There have been many cases where my parents simply just don't listen to me and they just yell at me to do something. And I have to lie to them, and I don't feel safe talking to them at all. They pretty much forced me to break any close ties whatsoever. So if any of you are willing to, elaborate more on why you think it is "ridiculous" please.

You see, the "yelling at your children" part wouldn't have happened had they raised you in a more strict manner beginning from your kindergarten years.

They're not "leaving you alone" - they just don't really care anymore because it's hopeless now. Especially not when you're off in the corner playing Stepmania (not saying you play it 24/7, but just stating some of your interests over other things, such as family matters, schoolwork, etcetera).

I say this because I (think) I saw you post a thread when I didn't have an account about your schoolwork ethics and how you had no motivation.. or something along those lines. Assuming what I think is true, then maybe your parents do have a legitimate reason to yell at you, and maybe you don't have a legitimate reason to be ignoring them.

It's not they who cut off close ties with you - it is you, the child. A parent would not do so, especially not if they're still sending you to school and "leaving you the fuck alone". Cutting off ties means divorces, non parental guardians, and much more. So I just think your parents gave up on you.

That's my speculation, take my opinions with a grain of salt - they are not personal attacks but rather observations that I've made in my few days here on the forums.

[rushyrulz]

Re: Why Chinese Mothers are Superior

I rolled up my sleeves and went back to Lulu. I used every weapon and tactic I could think of. We worked right through dinner into the night, and I wouldn't let Lulu get up, not for water, not even to go to the bathroom. The house became a war zone, and I lost my voice yelling, but still there seemed to be only negative progress, and even I began to have doubts.

Then, out of the blue, Lulu did it. Her hands suddenly came together—her right and left hands each doing their own imperturbable thing—just like that.

And what if it didn't suddenly click for her? Then she would feel "lazy, cowardly, self-indulgent and pathetic." As well as not getting the next n amount of meals or having a birthday party for the next n amount of years.

This parenting is just FANTASTIC, when the parent's expectations are greater than the child's ability, you'll get some seriously fucked up kids because cussing them out, insulting them, and threatening them will ensue a fear of their 'Chinese mother' because they're not perfect.

It's also a sticky situation when you barrage your children 5 hours a day for 10 years on the piano and it turns out that they don't like the piano. Now you have a kid who extremely good at piano, but not very good at anything else. Also, last time I checked, you have to be really damn good at music to make a decent living off of it, book smarts aren't a good backup without any 'street skills' to pair them with.

Bottom line for me is to at least allow your kids to show some kind of genuine interest in something before you start unleashing hell on a warpath of fury to get your kid to be perfect at one specific skill. Not allowing your children to have a mind makes for a cookie cutter world. If all parents had piano prodigies, nobody would be a piano prodigy thus fucking up their future. I love how Amy Chua totally dismissed her husband's input on the matter at hand and continued to be a raging bitch.

tl;dr: There are too many problems with this parenting style that will lead your child to have either a fucked up life or an unhappy one. Kids need to have a mind of their own and pursue what they excel at.

/endrant

EDIT @ Minati: Quit attacking Dossar for being good at Stepmania. You're making him sound like a punk who fails all his classes and is an ass to his parents, but as he stated before he gets good grades and is self-motivated. Just because he's good at SM and FFR doesn't mean he's completely shut out from the world.

[Minati]

Re: Why Chinese Mothers are Superior

EDIT @ Minati: Quit attacking Dossar for being good at Stepmania. You're making him sound like a punk who fails all his classes and is an ass to his parents, but as he stated before he gets good grades and is self-motivated. Just because he's good at SM and FFR doesn't mean he's completely shut out from the world.

I'm not attacking DossarLX ODI - I was just saying why he shouldn't advocate the "leave the kids the fuck alone" style of parenting. If you read the previous pages, you would know. I've read a few of his threads and nowhere in my response did I say he fails his classes, gets bad grades, or being shut out from the world. Maybe being "left the fuck alone" worked for him, but it sure does not work the other 99.9% of teenagers who end up being worse off than they could have been.

[rushyrulz]

Re: Why Chinese Mothers are Superior

I read the whole thread before I posted. I just didn't find it necessary to say:

Your parents "left you the fuck alone" and so you ended up playing Stepmania for all these years when you could've done something else like learning a sport or learning an instrument. Congratulations.

and:

Especially not when you're off in the corner playing Stepmania (not saying you play it 24/7, but just stating some of your interests over other things, such as family matters, schoolwork, etcetera).

without it being a 'personal attack'. It is a personal attack, you're blaming Dossar's alleged lack of discipline on his skill in a game on the internet. A person's skill in a game doesn't say anything about how they were raised, so I don't see why it's necessary to bring it up twice.

In fact, there are a few asians with 'Chinese mothers' who are quite good at this game as well as excelling in their math and music. The difference between Dossar and them is that Dossar doesn't have a parent forcing him to do anything.

So since both sides are represented, it's probably safe to say that skill in Stepmania has absolutely nothing to do with this topic and it can only be taken as a personal attack, even if you didn't think it was.

Like I previously stated, I don't support the chinese mother parenting style nor the "leave them the fuck alone" parenting style, but something in between is perfect.

[spartanumaw]

Re: Why Chinese Mothers are Superior

I really don't think that is a good way of parenting. Think about it your children hate you thats not how a parent is suppose to treat there child. Give them love and attention and allow them to be whatever they want to be.

I'm not choosing one side or the other(my parents found that balance inbetween..white dad, chinese mom) but this idea is what led america to be (in my opinion) obese, intellectually inferior, and all around less successful.

[Minati]

Re: Why Chinese Mothers are Superior

I read the whole thread before I posted. I just didn't find it necessary to say:



and:



without it being a 'personal attack'. It is a personal attack, you're blaming Dossar's alleged lack of discipline on his skill in a game on the internet. A person's skill in a game doesn't say anything about how they were raised, so I don't see why it's necessary to bring it up twice.

In fact, there are a few asians with 'Chinese mothers' who are quite good at this game as well as excelling in their math and music. The difference between Dossar and them is that Dossar doesn't have a parent forcing him to do anything.

So since both sides are represented, it's probably safe to say that skill in Stepmania has absolutely nothing to do with this topic and it can only be taken as a personal attack, even if you didn't think it was.

Like I previously stated, I don't support the chinese mother parenting style nor the "leave them the fuck alone" parenting style, but something in between is perfect.

Actually, it's not a "personal attack", but rather an attack on the entirety of this community in general.. You'll find that people who excel in such things mentioned by Amy Chua (ex. violin, piano, academics) will most likely NEVER spend time on such trivial things such as Stepmania, FFR, or video games in general. Of course, "video games" could be replaced with getting wasted on a Tuesday afternoon, ignoring schoolwork, and much more.

What I was saying is, had DossarLX ODI's parents (or mine) brought him up in a strict manner instead of the "leave him the fuck alone" beginning from his younger years, he probably would have never began Stepmania, and would probably be a 4.0 future valedictorian student with interests in swimming, the french horn, or whatever.

All of which are infinitely more useful than knowing how to smash arrow keys. That I regret myself - spending time on Stepmania. I mean, look at yourself. 25 billion points, 4800 posts. You could've spent that time smashing all those arrows, lurking the forums, typing up lengthy responses such as these - on something else. Something... more meaningful, more useful, and more respectable.

That is what the Asian parent tries to enforce. Doing something worthwhile your time. They try to teach theirs kids what's worth their time from the start. Taking part in a school play when you're not planning on doing theatrics in college is not worth [their] time. Doing sleepovers and playing doll wasn't worth Amy Chua's time.

Sure, it may differ for everyone, but I'm sure that we'll all regret spending so much time on FFR and Stepmania at some point in our lives. Because.. you should all ask yourself this question. Will you be playing FFR in 15 years? Or will you still know how to play that violin in 15 years? Will you swim and play tennis in 15 years? Of course.

But will you still be out partying with people in their 20s in 15 years? Will you be gossiping with your friends about who broke up with who and who started going out with who in say.. 10 years?

Or will you be regretting those few years you spent so carelessly, thinking of all the things that you could have done and could have learned?

By that time however, there will be nobody to blame but yourself. Not even your parents.

[ddrxero64]

Re: Why Chinese Mothers are Superior

Oh, I am so going to tear this thread apart.

I took the time to read every post here, especially the ones that mattered. So don't pull of one of those "You obviously didn't read the previous pages" comments with me.

To start off, the article itself has way too many weak arguments that aren't backed up in order to be taken seriously. She says she bases her argument on her parenting and the result of it. She claims to have friends that have benefited from the same style of parenting, and she knows people who have suffered from a "Western Style" of parenting. Yet she never provides evidence or proof of either of these, and we're stuck with one story a girl who played one piano song, which even wasn't confirmed as well. But let's just take her word for it. Take this excerpt for example:

I told her to stop being lazy, cowardly, self-indulgent and pathetic.

Jed took me aside. He told me to stop insulting Lulu—which I wasn't even doing...

She says she never insulted Lulu, which is obviously apparent in the sentence before. For you people who really want to get nitty gritty, here are 6 examples of the definition of insult.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/insult
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/insult

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/insult

http://www.yourdictionary.com/insult

http://www.brainyquote.com/words/in/insult179381.html

http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Insult

Last time I checked, lazy, cowardly, self-indulgent and pathetic were all examples of demeaning words. If you don't believe me, feel free to search up a definition of a credible source and prove me wrong. She does in fact insult Lulu, yet denies it in her proof. This definitely decreases the reliability of this article as fact, and creates a lot of bias.

Her philosophy is also based on one factor, which is the parenting style of course. She doesn't take into mind the educational system that she places her daughters in. They could be prestigious private schools that teach children with highly qualified teachers. She never said she home schooled, but it's implied she didn't when says she never let her daughter go to a school play.
She never references the fact that the chinese educational laws and system is very highly rated, and instead takes all credit for her child's success, as if she taught everything herself. She says chinese mothers never worry about their children's self esteem. Yet in places like Japan where parenting may be similar there is a high suicide rate that is directly caused by the difficulty of Japanese education. I can put my money on the idea that it's not the education system killing children, but on the parenting from the strict mothers and fathers. Also if you want to challenge me on that suicide death rate, then you better have some proof. It isn't really my job to have to back up every little thing I say. If I have to I will, but don't challenge me with words and no proof, it's just plain unprofessional.

DossarLX ODI - I don't completely agree with your theory, but for a child to self motivate themselves is completely possible. They can also be motivated through the support of friends and teachers as well, so it's not entirely impossible for a child to have no kind of parenting and still grow up to be talented, though I may not agree that it exactly fits your situation.

Minati -Ignorance is bliss isn't it? You may as well be Amy Chua herself, creating arguments with holes, contradictions and weak.

Excellent parenting. Although, Amy Chua is a bit on the extreme side. After all, she did attend Yale Law School - can't expect any less from such a hard working parent.

Work hard now - play later.

Most of you would be better off had your parents raised you in a more strict manner, such as this woman.

Although, she does take two EXTREMES and puts them in an almost satirical way.. she has a valid point. Westerners are more prone to parenting with "love" and "care", but really it's just an excuse. The more parents try to keep you happy from the start, the more parents try to make you feel loved, the less you'll start working or studying on your own. Unless children have that external force (motivation, punishments, prizes), they will NEVER do things on their own, simply because they have no reason to.

Giving children a reason to hone a skill whether it be musical instruments or academics or sports will be beneficial to not only the child later on, but to the parents as well.

Think about it. Children and teenagers may get their 5-10 years of relaxation and fun, but once they're thrown out into the real world - how will they cope? With the 5-10 years spent not studying hard, not honing some sort of skill, not doing anything really, other people who were motivated since their childhood will have already learned how to play the guitar, piano and will also have gotten ahead of you in terms of academics.

So while you work at a low income retail store (a rather hurtful stereotype, but true for the most part regardless), the people who were raised by strict parents (maybe not as strict as Amy Chua, but still strict in terms of Westerns) will have attended a more prestigious college and will have a more prestigious job.

White collar, blue collar.

The difference exists for a reason - parenting.

PS) Read about this a few days ago.. my friend showed it to me. I have to say - I was quite pleased with this article. Maybe it's because I was raised by someone like Amy Chua.

PSS) Most replies in this agreeing with the article will probably be made by Asians and non-Westerners while most replies disagreeing with the article will consist of (surprise!) Westerners. It's because we were raised in such different environments - I guess the "model minority" stereotype is confirmed with this rather unorthodox yet valid article.

Let us analyze this post. First thing is that Yale Law School doesn't certify you as a good and hard working parent, it gives you a degree in Law. You mention that children will NEVER (hasn't been proven) do things on their own without motvation and prizes. Love and providing your child with happiness via material objects and moral support are forms of motivation. Prizes don't always have to be physical things you can touch, so it could be the opportunity to play an instrument of choice. Anything can be a prize really, as long as the child is willing to work for it. As for the children excelling at a guitar, piano, and academics, those are not the only qualities to succeed in life. There are rappers who have none of those qualities, and yet they're out living their dream. By the way, stereotypes aren't true, or they wouldn't be called stereotypes, they would be called a fact. So you might want to fix that retail store comment. Also, a prestigious college has little to do with your job, because your job doesn't like at how you were taught, but how you apply it. Also, good job guessing who will agree with and who won't based on region. It's not racist at all.

Next quote:

Your parents "left you the fuck alone" and so you ended up playing Stepmania for all these years when you could've done something else like learning a sport or learning an instrument. Congratulations. Your parents "left you the fuck alone" and that's why you use George Carlin (who is an excellent comedian, I'll agree with that), and this.. "snipeme.com" as some sort of reliable source for supporting the fact that parents should leave their kids "the fuck alone."

Sorry to say, but leaving kids "the fuck alone" has never been a good parenting choice, if not the worst. That has been tested by time and time again.

So tell me, learning a sport or playing an instrument would have furthered his opportunities in the future huh? The sports industry is very risky, and so is the music industry. You are almost never guaranteed a stable job with a steady pay in either field, so that was horrible choices instead of stepmania. You're sarcasm doesn't effectively improve your argument at all either. Especially since you have no references or sources to support any of your statements, but you are quick to judge Dossar LX ODI's reference. And as for the last sentence, please provide a link where it has been tested by time and time again. I couldn't find it.

Next Quote:

All in all, pushy parents create prodigies and the 4.0 students that most of us have envied at one point in our lives. We even wish we had their grades, their skills, and that's where the difference comes in. The parents.

There have been prodigies by parents who aren't pushy as well, and you failed to mention that. Also, you need to speak for yourself when you say people have envied 4.0 averages. The valedictorian at my school was definitely a 4.0 if not higher chinese student, but the depressed look on his face is something I felt sorry for, not envied. It seems that most of these words are coming from personal experience, not from people who have told you this.

Next Quote:

Actually, it's not a "personal attack", but rather an attack on the entirety of this community in general.. You'll find that people who excel in such things mentioned by Amy Chua (ex. violin, piano, academics) will most likely NEVER spend time on such trivial things such as Stepmania, FFR, or video games in general. Of course, "video games" could be replaced with getting wasted on a Tuesday afternoon, ignoring schoolwork, and much more.

What I was saying is, had DossarLX ODI's parents (or mine) brought him up in a strict manner instead of the "leave him the fuck alone" beginning from his younger years, he probably would have never began Stepmania, and would probably be a 4.0 future valedictorian student with interests in swimming, the french horn, or whatever.

All of which are infinitely more useful than knowing how to smash arrow keys. That I regret myself - spending time on Stepmania. I mean, look at yourself. 25 billion points, 4800 posts. You could've spent that time smashing all those arrows, lurking the forums, typing up lengthy responses such as these - on something else. Something... more meaningful, more useful, and more respectable.

That is what the Asian parent tries to enforce. Doing something worthwhile your time. They try to teach theirs kids what's worth their time from the start. Taking part in a school play when you're not planning on doing theatrics in college is not worth [their] time. Doing sleepovers and playing doll wasn't worth Amy Chua's time.

Sure, it may differ for everyone, but I'm sure that we'll all regret spending so much time on FFR and Stepmania at some point in our lives. Because.. you should all ask yourself this question. Will you be playing FFR in 15 years? Or will you still know how to play that violin in 15 years? Will you swim and play tennis in 15 years? Of course.

But will you still be out partying with people in their 20s in 15 years? Will you be gossiping with your friends about who broke up with who and who started going out with who in say.. 10 years?

Or will you be regretting those few years you spent so carelessly, thinking of all the things that you could have done and could have learned?

By that time however, there will be nobody to blame but yourself. Not even your parents.

I love this quote the most, with such a big contradiction to start. So if DossarLX ODI was raised by strict parents, even yours, he would have never even began stepmania. Then what are you doing here? You try to argue that you regret playing stepmania. But you're still here. My favorite quote was when you told him he could be doing something more productive than typing "lengthy responses like these." Yet you typed it. According to your logic, you're parents weren't strict with you at all, lacking techniques such as teaching you respect, how to use your time wisely, and most importantly, the definition of hypocrisy. I love the self implying questions you ask yourself as well. Will I play FFR in 15 years? Probably not. Will I love to remember the good times I had? Definitely. Will I know how to play violin in 15 years if I know now? Of course. Will it be useful in my career? Most likely not. Will I be playing tennis and swimming in 15 years? Sure. For recreational and healthy purposes, not for academic success. Will I still be partying with people in their 20s in 15 years? No, because they'll be in their 30s. Will I be gossiping with my friends about break ups and relationships in 10 years? No, I will have my own to maintain. Will I regret the things I could have learned and done when I'm older? Only if they were things I dreamed of doing. Try sky diving when you're 60. It may not be as easy as when you're 20. Learning a useless violin at 60 years old may be more possible.

Next Quote:

You see, the "yelling at your children" part wouldn't have happened had they raised you in a more strict manner beginning from your kindergarten years.

They're not "leaving you alone" - they just don't really care anymore because it's hopeless now. Especially not when you're off in the corner playing Stepmania (not saying you play it 24/7, but just stating some of your interests over other things, such as family matters, schoolwork, etcetera).

I say this because I (think) I saw you post a thread when I didn't have an account about your schoolwork ethics and how you had no motivation.. or something along those lines. Assuming what I think is true, then maybe your parents do have a legitimate reason to yell at you, and maybe you don't have a legitimate reason to be ignoring them.

It's not they who cut off close ties with you - it is you, the child. A parent would not do so, especially not if they're still sending you to school and "leaving you the fuck alone". Cutting off ties means divorces, non parental guardians, and much more. So I just think your parents gave up on you.

That's my speculation, take my opinions with a grain of salt - they are not personal attacks but rather observations that I've made in my few days here on the forums.

You're saying DossarLX ODI's parents don't care about him, yet you infer this from text written by him. Try meeting his parents before you judge them through someone else's eyes. You are assuming which is correct, you are able to admit that. Just to let you know, assuming how things are won't get you far in life. Also, westerners are forced to send their children to school. It is national law. So don't assume that a parent sending their children to school is voluntary and means they care. You're observations are very primitive, and include assumptions, incorrect facts, and irrelevant sources.

Next Quote:

I'm not attacking DossarLX ODI - I was just saying why he shouldn't advocate the "leave the kids the fuck alone" style of parenting. If you read the previous pages, you would know. I've read a few of his threads and nowhere in my response did I say he fails his classes, gets bad grades, or being shut out from the world. Maybe being "left the fuck alone" worked for him, but it sure does not work the other 99.9% of teenagers who end up being worse off than they could have been.

Please, entertain me with one statistic from a credible source that claims 99.9% of teenagers are worse off having their parents leaving them alone.

All in all Minati, it isn't worth defending such a poorly written argument in the first place. Backing up your arguments with factual information and low biased statistics are most effective when trying to argue though. Feel free to argue with this post, just try to back it up so you don't look like a hypocrite who didn't read my post. Since you are used to providing assumptions that are irrelevant as well, feel free to attack me rather than my argument. It will very mature.

-ddrXero64

[Reach]

Re: Why Chinese Mothers are Superior

You'll find that people who excel in such things mentioned by Amy Chua (ex. violin, piano, academics) will most likely NEVER spend time on such trivial things such as Stepmania, FFR, or video games in general.

For the record, while this is true in some cases, I have friends that are incredibly astute at music and academia and still find time for leisure activities. I too have played the piano for years now, have performed in concerts and play at a level sufficient to pass teaching exams. I also graduated university with a BS.c with a GPA equivalent to summa cum laude in the USA. I also play a plethora of video games and played stepmania for years.


Now, the point of that wasn't to gasconade, but to point out the fact that people can perform well in standard measures of achievement without going through slave labor as a child.


It's not as if this topic hasn't been studied in the past. It is well known that strong parenting will increase the achievement of a child.

With that said, what is the ultimate outcome of children that are pushed to the extreme? When we look at the data in psychology from super high achievers to child prodigies, several things stand out. Many of these children burn out when they reach college; they become tired and frustrated and daunted by the fact that their torture still isn't over, and many of them fail to achieve anything near what they achieved as a child in what could be considered the major turning point in their life. They simply lack the independent drive necessary to make it through these tumultuous times.

Essentially, often times this style of parenting backfires. Pushing a child too hard can break a child down. These children are incredibly prone to depression and failure later in life.


This type of parenting style can also stymie creativity. There are benefits to leisure time. When kept in check, play time can foster intellectual growth through exploring curiosity and building a sense of self.


A superior parenting style is one that is both tough but nurturing as well. I think that pushing your children is good for them, but on the same point, you can only push so hard. You should always allow your children time for themselves, because this allows them to understand their own desires and passions.

If someone is passionate about something and has a burning desire to do something, suddenly you don't need to push them anymore. Suddenly, they're perfectly capable of doing everything and more independently.

If you look at prodigies that didn't burn out as adults, the ones that go on to achieve great things with their lives, they are the ones with the burning desire. They're the ones stringing the parents along, not the other way around. If someone is going to grow to be all that they can be, they need to find this drive within themselves. Simply pushing someone along as hard as you can is never going to force this into them; they have to find it.


Asians in North America have been highly successful, nobody is denying that. I think this result is convoluted though; it's not strictly because of parenting. There's a sort of immigrant effect where the people that leave a country for another tend to be above average intelligence, meaning their progeny will be above average as well. As such, the sample is a bit biased, and we're talking about training children that are already quite intelligent, so of course they're going to do well.


It's another thing to take a child of mediocre or less than average ability and expect them to do great things through parenting alone. It will never happen. Ne Plus Ultra only ever happens in combination of an exceptional person and an exceptional parent, never one or the other.