Queue/Batch Discussion Thread

[Arch0wl]

Also, any judge exam would essentially cement a kind of aristocracy where there is one "judge style" that's passed down from judge to judge. This is precisely what happened with pad simfile tournaments in 2003 and 2004. Almost no song could win which wasn't some type of 8-footer happy house garbage, and this pretty much stayed the same until ITG came out.

[TC_Halogen]

Originally Posted by MrPopadopalis25

It would be impossible to account for everybody's sort of taste as far as judging goes. Some people like technical piano files, some people like bursty IDM files, some people like files with just straight 16th stream, and some people like straight 8th note anime openings. A good judge should be able to make sure the file passes the bare minimums (proper BPM and offsync, basic notes actual follow something, layering isn't all over the place, etc) and then go from there as to whether or not the file would be fun and appealing for the majority of players.

It's the precise reason why a person needs to be able to differentiate between their likes and preferences, to things that are noted inconsistencies within the files (goes back to objective errors).

EDIT: also, for anyone using the reason that they have files on DF, I want to personally let you know that, while I'm lenient there:

Originally Posted by bmah

strictness rating:

green = I'm easy
yellow = I'm easy-moderate
orange = I'm moderate-strict
red = I'm strict

[Team 3] (26 files)
TC_Halogen
buizel8888
who_cares973
i love you

I'm not over here. My way of helping out over there is being lighter on judging when a person is trying to build a foundation toward stepping, rather than giving them harsh ratings. Over here, I'm assuming that a person has all of the fundamentals down, and my definitions of the fundamentals happens to stretch slightly past layering and consistency.

[ichliebekase]

Originally Posted by Arch0wl

Second to that, you should have (1) the ability to provide constructive feedback: "here's what I liked, here's what I think would make your file better", and (2) a tendency to get the judging done right away, because no one wants to wait forever to have their file judged.

I like what you said here. Providing good feedback is what is more necessary than anything when judging files [because I thought that's what we were doing here >.>]

I liked the Judging Exam except for the speed round too, mainly because there are some step artists that take their time and don't usually finish a file within 3 days.

[TC_Halogen]

random unrelated note: three of our judges (and one ex-judge) all share the same birthday today

Happy birthday to Patashu, Silvuh, and Kory (and Rebirth, but he won't see this for another year).

[woker-X]

Really??.. wow...

Happy birthday to all of them :3

[krunkykai22]

Guys, listen. What good is it to go around saying "you shouldn't be a judge or back-up judge, or whatever it is you guys are saying?" The teamwork and cooperation on this community has gone straight out of the window guys.

I thought to keep a business or site or community going you have to have some sportsmanship with trial and error in the running as well. If the same people are constantly judging files after we saw what happened last time, there is going to be anarchy out of the ass. Having different people come and judge, I understand, may in fact be bad, but what's the difference? There was a crap ton of "subjective" drama before? Lol.

How about we get some new taste of what other people in the COMMUNITY think? Personally, what DF has on their site was a pretty good, and could be bad idea. Putting the songs up in a genre and letting the people pick, with ultimately, AJ and Kayla having authority to overturn if they feel it really is wacked out. I thought that was amazing.

However, here, who would be the ultimate decision makers?

How about Jimerax? I'm pretty sure this guy knows what he's doing. And their could be a thread to discuss each file on what EVERYONE thinks, not just a select few?

Yes this idea could turn really bad. But, if people, like Carlos (<3) don't come around and call a completely crappy file good, then we should all be fine. Just be honest and truthful. :/

Basically, even if that idea doesn't pass, which idc if it does or doesn't, cooperation and teamwork need to be fulfilled to be successful. Stop whining and present good suggestions like Byron did in his post. THAT was sportsmanship. Take a page from him.

Good day people,
Krunky

[Xayphon]

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

random unrelated note: three of our judges (and one ex-judge) all share the same birthday today

Happy birthday to Patashu, Silvuh, and Kory (and Rebirth, but he won't see this for another year).

Patashu, Kory and Rebirth got 20 years old. FUN FACT HURR HURR

[TC_Halogen]

Originally Posted by MrPopadopalis25

Psst, do you guys have like a list of what name goes with what user? You keep referring to each other by first names and I have no idea who is being referred to.

Luxury of everyone knowing one another in a close-knit community; isn't it fun when you don't know who you're talking to?

I've always been a fan of community-driven decisions with an oversight by staff, but when the amount of submissions is relatively high as it is on FFR, it's pretty hard to maintain something like that.

[psychoangel691]

A lot of the stuff being said about judging is just a circle of the same stuff over and over again being said. At least now with the judging we don't have a single person at the end saying that a song wont go into game even after it was accepted by all judges. Do I think the system could still use some improvement? Yea, but it's getting there.

Originally Posted by krunkykai22

How about we get some new taste of what other people in the COMMUNITY think? Personally, what DF has on their site was a pretty good, and could be bad, idea. Putting the songs up in a genre and letting the people pick, with ultimately, AJ and Kayla having authority to overturn if they feel it really is wacked out. I thought that was amazing.

Yes we're trying this on DF but frankly already it doesn't seem like it's going to work because not enough people are getting involved. Also you don't have it quite correct. We have the songs up for community vote but there's also 4 judges still rating the files. Then we will take into consideration both community votes and judges ratings before deciding if something stays in game. Also it's easy for us to do it there because we don't have a database and such to work with there. We just upload the levels and put info on an xml it would be way more complicated to do it here unless someone coded something to preview files that aren't in game yet (like on Kbo)

[TC_Halogen]

Originally Posted by Patashu

can we integrate kbo's autoplay plugin into the forum? then I don't have to load stepmania to look at someone's fiel. post -> instant feedback -> everyone's happy

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ <3

[ichliebekase]

I just thought of this idea, thought I'd throw it out there.

For new-time judges that people are questionable about, have them ghost-judge. It's almost like the Judge Exam like MrPopadop mentioned. If judging is done the same way it was last time, put the new judges into a group with experienced judges and have them judge the same files, although the "new judges" scores wouldn't necessarily count for whether or not the song got accepted or not [hence, ghosting]. If their judging looks relatively similar [i.e. finding the same mistakes, giving similar suggestions, pointing out different parts] then it'll show that they can recognize what others do. Also, it gives everyone a glimpse into what kind of judging style we have.

I dunno, it was just a random idea I thought of while playing. Thought I'd mention it.

[qqwref]

Originally Posted by krunkykai22

Guys, listen. What good is it to go around saying "you shouldn't be a judge or back-up judge, or whatever it is you guys are saying?" The teamwork and cooperation on this community has gone straight out of the window guys.

I don't agree, because choosing judges isn't about "cooperation on this community". It's about getting the best people to do the job, so we get the best set of files in the game. Nobody is saying that certain people will never ever be judges, we're just talking about who are the best candidates right now. All the borderline people know that if too few good people can judge they have a chance, and if too many good people can judge they don't.

Originally Posted by krunkykai22

How about we get some new taste of what other people in the COMMUNITY think? Personally, what DF has on their site was a pretty good, and could be bad idea. Putting the songs up in a genre and letting the people pick, with ultimately, AJ and Kayla having authority to overturn if they feel it really is wacked out. I thought that was amazing.

This could be an interesting idea (for veterans only, I'd imagine), although we'd need to make sure that (a) files that are good but either easy ("boring") or hard to score on don't get auto-rejected, and (b) small obvious errors can be found and fixed by some kind of judging system before the files actually get in-game.

[ichliebekase]

Originally Posted by qqwref

All the borderline people know that if too few good people can judge they have a chance, and if too many good people can judge they don't.

This could be an interesting idea (for veterans only, I'd imagine), although we'd need to make sure that (a) files that are good but either easy ("boring") or hard to score on don't get auto-rejected, and (b) small obvious errors can be found and fixed by some kind of judging system before the files actually get in-game.

First part, obviously, because Jimerax said we're backup, which is what we really should be. Didn't expect to just be "OHEY, TOP OF THE JUDGES LIST" :P

But the veterans idea would be cool, and obviously all of the mentioned conditions would need to be considered. It'd probably be a difficult process to fully finish but if it was ever done it's be awesome.

[Gundam-Dude]

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ <3

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ <3

[i love you]

1+ support for Patashu's idea <3

[Vanilla Mnm]

I think the problem with that krunky is that there will be very, very few files that even a huge majority agrees on it one way or another. Unless it's completely terrible. If it's borderline, or if it's even a good file, or anything, people are going to disagree with each other and it's going to turn out a bad idea. It sounds like a great idea, but I really don't think it'd workout because there would be way too much disagreeing.

[TC_Halogen]

Originally Posted by jimerax

I'm not against having multiple difficulties for a song in the game at all, just don't want a .dwi/.sm that has multiple difficulties (except for resubmissions). Submitting them as separated files with [Light] or [Heavy] is ok.

Current Judges List

[Previous judges]
Silvuh, JX, ily, qqwref, psychoangel, Patashu, wc, G-Dude, Halogen, bmah, dore

[Non-previous judges]
Arch0wl, Niala, ichliebekase

In previous judges, Kommi, V4N, samurai haven't responded yet (buizel said he won't do this time). and I'll be a backup if there're enough judges.

Originally Posted by ichliebekase

First part, obviously, because Jimerax said we're backup, which is what we really should be. Didn't expect to just be "OHEY, TOP OF THE JUDGES LIST" :P

But the veterans idea would be cool, and obviously all of the mentioned conditions would need to be considered. It'd probably be a difficult process to fully finish but if it was ever done it's be awesome.

I don't think JX said you guys were backups - he only mentioned that you guys are people who weren't judging previously. Not too sure how JX is going to handle that, but if he feels that you all lack the experience, you guys probably won't be sitting as a backup.

Originally Posted by bmah

I'll be frank, but I don't know what ap (plus a bunch of other people listed here) would offer in regards to file judging.

AP is a good stepartist, he's got a few (older) files in game, but iirc, he also stepped Psicicite (sp?) and it's a pretty solid file. Somewhat abstract in pattern choices, but it's hella fun and really technical. He's got an understanding of how newer files work and shows that he understood some of the techniques usually found in newer files through his older ones (like Uber Rave v2 with the intricately PR'd runs). He told me about a song that he's stepping called 12 Bit Bloops; pretty complex song with a lot of percussion clashing with some good melodies - he might as well use that as his audition file for judging (not that he needs it).

As far as the other people, they probably should showcase some of their better files and prove their understanding of rhetorics, sync, objectivity, etc.

[ichliebekase]

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

I don't think JX said you guys were backups - he only mentioned that you guys are people who weren't judging previously. Not too sure how JX is going to handle that, but if he feels that you all lack the experience, you guys probably won't be sitting as a backup

He PM'd me that Jeff and I were backups. That's why I keep saying it and it wasn't mentioned in here.

[Arch0wl]

QUALIFICATIONS: I was offered to step for In The Groove, stepped for DanceTraX and also was paid to make charts for iDance. welp.

[TC_Halogen]

Originally Posted by Arch0wl

QUALIFICATIONS: I was offered to step for In The Groove, stepped for DanceTraX and also was paid to make charts for iDance. welp.

name? - I beta-tested iDance.

EDIT: sorry, beta-tested, and demoed in 2009 at McCormick center in Chicago