Is it wrong to be gay?

[mhss1992]

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?

+1 to everything Squeek said.

But what I am asking is how you justify supporting one and not the other?

Well, if I didn't make it clear enough, here is what I believe: I am in favor of every relationship that is consensual between the people involved, as long as they have enough maturity to deal with this choice, and it doesn't harm anyone.

I am in fact against it. I believe that a line was drawn and really does not need to be changed. If homosexuals care to live together and do what they want within the bounds of the law, then they are fine. I do not agree with their choices but they are keeping it legal. This push to change the law to suit their lifestyle choices further is not necessary.

Their choices are based on what they like, and they didn't choose to like the same sex. You don't care about the line being changed simply because you're not gay. Why do straight couples deserve more benefits? Just because they are the majority?

And my arguments beyond this comparison include bringing in religion and would lead to a debate over how ethical morality in law is. I am avoiding those so as not to derail the thread any further than it already has gone.

So, in wraps, do I have more arguments? Yes, I do. But I believe this is the strongest argument, outside of bringing in religion/moral controversies/etc., and is fully valid.

I'd like to hear the "moral controversies" you're talking about. I could provide a lot of arguments against religion's view on this, but I will just say this: if people have the right to choose their religion and believe it's right, why do they think they have the right to deny the rights of people who didn't choose their sexual orientation?

[fido123]

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?

Holy **** thank you Squeek so much holy **** thank you I just had to make this post of appreciation for taking the time to read through all of GG's post and actually intelligently respond to it. I wanted to say all of that was just not in the mood nor could I put it in better words.


EDIT: I agree with the end of your post though GG

I've got no problem with the whole 'being gay' aspect fido. Alright? I really don't. You wanna f*ck men in the ass? That is your own business I've got no problem with that, I like ass f*cking as much as the next guy! I just don't think you need to parade it down in the middle of the street telling everybody you're into that sort of thing

I think too many gays do this, I am not one of them along with many others I know. If you do stereotype don't, it's like saying all black people love rap culture.

[MrRubix]

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?

I second absolutely every point Squeek said -- right on target.

[Plan_Bsk81127]

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?

What I love about stuff like this is how when the word "gay" is mentioned, the first thing that comes to most people's mind is the thought or image of a guy having butt secks with another guy. As if that is all being gay is about. Just thought it was kind of funny since I seemed to noticed that out of a few comments in this thread.

But in general, idc if one is gay, sure it wierds me out a bit, especially when they take it a bit too far, but doesnt bother me. They should have every right as any other person in love. Just thought I put my opinion on the topic while I posted here.

[MrRubix]

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?

You know, the fact that so many people focus on the sex in this argument is pretty sad. What people do behind closed doors is their own business. Why do we need to discriminate based on those things? So what if we know how gay people have sex? It doesn't matter and it really needs to be left out of the argument altogether.

When you get right down to it, does anyone have a legitimate reason against gay right equality? Most people say "a marriage is defined as a union between a man and a woman under God," and yet there's nothing preventing, say, atheists from getting married. Why does it matter if two people of the same sex wish to have that bond officialized? Do you feel that it somehow demeans heterosexual bonds?

I just think the whole thing's silly. Someone give me an actual, hardcore reason that is something other than "Whine whine whine."

[MrRubix]

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?

This is the Critical Thinking forum. It's meant to be serious. Don't bring trolling/whatever here.

[MrRubix]

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?

well funmonkey's is that legalizing gay marriage necessitates legalizing bestiality and polygamy and **** so have fun with that one

It doesn't necessitate those things at all. Like Squeek said, bestiality is illegal because an animal cannot consent. So, that argument is void. And, polygamy? Personally, I have nothing against polygamy/polygyny/polyandry, because it doesn't violate any fundamental human rights. Again, someone give me a good reason why this shouldn't be legalized.

[funmonkey54]

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?

I think it is dumb when people try to use biblical to say that God doesn't think gay is ok and their going to hell. And if that is so, then straight people would be going to hell because there are couples who do infidelity ( sin ) rape children ( sin ) and the biggest one ... GOD HATES RELIGION.

What are you talking about?

Also, I am not saying it necessitates those things. I am just saying it would be hypocritical to support one but not the other. Also, I have already (multiple times might I add) disbanded my statement on bestiality as not true nor needed. I was wrong in saying that. Squeek apparently didn't see it or just felt like responding to something I already admitted was out of line. He seems to enjoy the whole attacking personally when he feels strong about something.

[MrRubix]

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?

Anyways, here's the fundamental issue as I see it:

It's been declared that the US is a Christian nation and that marriage is primarily a Christian function. However, many like to keep marriage as a "Christian function between man and woman" as denoted in the bible:

http://www.gotquestions.org/marriage-Bible.html

http://bible.org/article/homosexuali...an-perspective

And, so, many seem to believe that to change "marriage" as it is defined is to be ignorant of its origins and implications. Of course, if this were true, why didn't we see more uprisings against atheists marrying?

But, you know what -- if you want to keep "marriage" as defined as a man-woman pairing, and people absolutely don't want to extend that word to include other forms, then I think that's fine. Calling it something else is fine as long as the rights are equal to those of marriage. I think it's a reasonable compromise that still ensures equal rights.

[Mollocephalus]

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?

marriage is a stupid concept to begin with but it has socially practical applications. many coutries state in their constitutions how their norms are guided by divine teachings and religious boundaries, but it's probably time to move on from that. it's been a good while. christianity, or any other kind of religion for that matter, has ceased to aptly regulate and represent society dozens of years ago.

/religion

[funmonkey54]

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?

You ignored my last answer.

I probably missed it. There were a large number of posts all at once that came in and I really do not have the time nor the will to argue them all again in this thread. It seems that there are no more arguments on either side and to keep repeating the same things is not necessary. If you want to PM me and just kind of explore the topic and each other's opinions further, I would be glad to do so.

Anyways, here's the fundamental issue as I see it:

It's been declared that the US is a Christian nation and that marriage is primarily a Christian function. However, many like to keep marriage as a "Christian function between man and woman" as denoted in the bible:

http://www.gotquestions.org/marriage-Bible.html

http://bible.org/article/homosexuali...an-perspective

And, so, many seem to believe that to change "marriage" as it is defined is to be ignorant of its origins and implications. Of course, if this were true, why didn't we see more uprisings against atheists marrying?

But, you know what -- if you want to keep "marriage" as defined as a man-woman pairing, and people absolutely don't want to extend that word to include other forms, then I think that's fine. Calling it something else is fine as long as the rights are equal to those of marriage. I think it's a reasonable compromise that still ensures equal rights.

I would agree with this.

[mhss1992]

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?

I probably missed it. There were a large number of posts all at once that came in and I really do not have the time nor the will to argue them all again in this thread. It seems that there are no more arguments on either side and to keep repeating the same things is not necessary. If you want to PM me and just kind of explore the topic and each other's opinions further, I would be glad to do so.

No, I want you to answer the question I made in the end of that post. It isn't too hard for you to go back some pages and read it, right?

[MrRubix]

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?

I understand that trying to change a religious function to something that is inherently AGAINST that religion is quite the violation, and so I'm not going to be so presumptuous as to force a non-religious overlay onto a pre-established religious function, despite the fact that I myself am atheist (oh and first amendment lol) -- however, this issue, coupled with the ignorance of the masses regarding homosexuality, is probably why it's been such an arduous and ongoing issue. However, I do think that anyone should be allowed to marry -- whatever you want to call it -- with equal rights of that of anyone else.

The problem I have with "civil unions," besides the fact that the phrase doesn't sound nearly as romantic as "marriage" on a purely aesthetic/emotional level, is that they don't offer the same rights as marriage:

http://lesbianlife.about.com/cs/wedding/a/unionvmarriage.htm

[funmonkey54]

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?

No, I want you to answer the question I made in the end of that post. It isn't too hard for you to go back some pages and read it, right?

Don't be an ass. But yes, I will go back in due time. Just let me finish this paper that is due in 2 hours. I will PM you my answer. Also, can you be more specific as to which question. Assuming it isn't too hard for you to specify which question.

Also, the PM thing is because this thread is coming to a close in case you haven't noticed and once again, no exact right or wrong is going to be found on the subject as long as people are allowed to have their own opinions. I will gladly explore further each others opinions with you, but that is about the limit of how much farther I care to go with this.

[mhss1992]

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?

Don't be an ass. But yes, I will go back in due time. Just let me finish this paper that is due in 2 hours. I will PM you my answer. Also, can you be more specific as to which question. Assuming it isn't too hard for you to specify which question.

Also, the PM thing is because this thread is coming to a close in case you haven't noticed and once again, no exact right or wrong is going to be found on the subject as long as people are allowed to have their own opinions. I will gladly explore further each others opinions with you, but that is about the limit of how much farther I care to go with this.

Sorry, I sometimes act like that when I get ignored.
This is the post: http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...&postcount=118