The New "Religion"

[Specforces]

Right, I've stated that before, I'm just giving arguements for both sides, religion was created by elitist philosophers to control the idiot masses. It evolved into the Church, which controlled the serfs during the middle ages, kept them from uprising, gave them some sort of "hope." That if they were to follow what their masters said, they would reach the eternal paradise.

*EDIT*My posts are now 666. Hmm interesting considering this was the post before it.

[IronMonk]

interesting thing about aquinas. he lived in i believe 1200-1300 somwere in there. but if you read his actual writing it was very very very very overly complex for anyone not highly educated. now how many people would be intelegent enough to understand what he had written? also all of his arguments can be summed up really easily, (as has been done several times in this thread) so why would he make it so complex that no one could argue against it? the reason is, he knew he couldnt possibly argue for it if someone actually took the time to understand it.

[Laharl]

Originally Posted by SephirothFF7

Religion is the ultimate and oldest form of control. By getting followers to your religion you can bend and twist them in any way you want to suit your wants or needs. That's why all religion is bullsh!t

Why do I get the feeling that 95% of the people that have posted in this thread haven't read the first post?

I'm pretty sure this has been covered MULTIPLE times in this thread.

[IronMonk]

because people are by their very nature lazy and more importantly need to feel intelegent.

[jewpinthethird]

You know what. The Bible is really interesting. There are a lot of cool things to quote like: "I am the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending...which is, and which was, and which is to come..." I am going to say that next time right before I do something cool while wearing knee pads.

I hope that the apocolypse takes place during my life time so that I can see it. That would be a pretty cool sight, maybe even a Kodak moment.

I realize that arguing over religion is pointless. All it does is cause more arguing. And only when Judgement Day comes (if it ever comes) will the fighting stop.

About that "Gay rights verses Adulterers" thing. People have a real problem with Homosexuals (many religious folk) because it is so "immoral", but Adulterers...meh, no one really cares. But the bibles says to hate both equally (by killing them, if you dont believe me, look it up: Leviticus 20:10 and 20:13).

But Life is short. Stop flipping out over the little things. Religious folk arent dumb because they believe in a higher being, just as agnostic and atheist folk arent dumb for not believing in God.

"God gave us the freedom of choice" right? Well, then my choice is not to acknowledge him without evidence of his existence. And so it was.

[/i]

[Laharl]

Originally Posted by IronMonk

because people are by their very nature lazy and more importantly need to feel intelegent.

*intelligent

[Anonymous]

I decided to go with my own personal religion . Basically I believe that no one knows if there is a god or not (after 2000 years or so of chinese whispers with many personal agendas), there are too many scientific things that make the idea of a god rediculous and too many things where a god seems to be the only explanation (like the existance of anything/everything). So I choose to live as a good person, let people believe what they want to believe (so long as it doesn't affect others negatively), and see what happens at the end.

On a side note, I went to christian schools (since they were better than the public schools in the area), and I think they fill kids' heads with ideas well before they are capable of comprehending them, let alone capable of making their own decisions. However I assume deeply religious parents believe their kids are being taught 'the truth' and so there is no issue. So people want to run religious schools, there's no reason to stop them.

[Anonymous]

Specforces, dude I have a TON of respect for you. You have actually looked at both sides, and then made a rational decision. That's what drives me crazy about people who just say I'm stupid for believing in God.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with anybody's point, but he was basically trying to say that if it is her fault that she got pregnant, why doesn't God do something about it?\

You need to take responsibility for your actions. If God just let everyone do whatever they wanted, then FIXed it all instantly, what would be the point in doing anything good or moral?

"who/what put god in motion?"

You are using the theories ov evolution to disprove God.

If God is all powerful, he doesn't NEED any friggin push!

Here is one tiny little thing that could ultametly prove the existance of an intelligent creator (well, maybe not)...

According to science, in the beginning, there was this friggin big ball of Hydrogen. I don't know how it got there, but we'll continue. Then it just explodes. BOOM! and from there on Science has made a pretty good case for itself. But I have 2 questions.

1. Where did the hydrogen come from? (Not what is it made of? cause it's made of an electron, and a proton, and those are made of qwarks(sp?) and so on. I asking where did the matter come from in the first place?)

2. How did it form a ball??? Cause something had to set it in motion. And It couldn't just explode without motion (because it would have already exploded, follow me?)

But I don't really want to prove religion to anyone. Seriously. I've been discussing why I believe, but you gotta make the decision yourself. According to what I believe, God gives us all the choice. Now if there was absolute proof that God existed, where would the choice be? You would have to be a fool not to accept his existance. Thats why we have a choice. God created logical explinations both for, and against the him.

Well as The Matrix says...

"I can only show you the door, you're the one that has to open it"

I think I'm going to be done posting on this thread, but If you have ANY questions at all (about anything I said, or about becoming a christian), please send me an e-mail...

corrigan@mn.rr.com

[SotN]

Originally Posted by Specforces

I shall start with the five classic proofs for the existence of God..by St. Thomas Aquanis.

1. First Mover...everything is in motion so something must have set it all in motion..an unmoved Prime Mover.
2. First Cause
3. Neccessary Being..all things in the Universe are contingent upon something. Ultimate source of all contingencies...God.
4. Greatest Being...you cannot think of anyting greater than God.
5. Intelligent Design.
Let the Games begin...

Isnt the "unmoved mover" thing Plato's idea? Dosent really matter, I guess. The arguement is still valid.

To play devil's advocate, quantum theory states taht everything is unstable, even nothingness. This is possible, however impossible it sounds.

Religous schools are fairly hit or miss. If they have teachers that actually care, then the arguement for God will be presented to them as an arguement and not some crap read out of a textbook.

Oh, and here's a little known catholic theory (isnt that a funny phrase? religious theory). When we meet God when we die, he does not judge us. We accept Him and enter Heaven or we retreat to hell away from God because we cannot face Him because of the guilt of the sins we committed.

[perfect_fat]

I think that the entire idea of time is stopping us from understanding the universe. Maybe there is no beginning and no end to anything. We all assume that everything has a begining and end because everything around us does, and it's logical to apply that to everything else. But there is no reason why the universe could not have always existed, and always will.

Or perhaps our entire universe is nothing but an electron of an atom that is part of a molecule that is part of a monkeys finger that is scratching his but right now.

[Feuergeist]

Good and Bad are relative to each side.

[Anonymous]

good and bad aren't relative, the yin yang is bogus. Good has already won.

[jewpinthethird]

Yes good has definatently won alright.</sarcasm>

4/27/04 (CNN) -- Two female soldiers have decided not to return to combat in Iraq after their sister was killed in Baghdad this month, a spokeswoman for the family said Tuesday.

The death of a person can never be justified as "good". Sometimes necessary, but never good, no matter who's side you are on. And I do not believe in good and evil. What may be evil to one, may be good to another. So therefore, it is nonexistent in my opinion.

[alainbryden]

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Good has already won.

n00b

[Zugman]

I'm Catholic and I have to say that homosexuals go to hell no matter what. they are commiting a crime against God and nature. If God meant for there to be GAYS, he would have made Adam and STEVE, not Adam and EVE!!!

[Laharl]

This thread is not about homosexuals at all. Go banter that nonsense somewhere else.

I'm a very devout Mormon. I believe homosexuality is wrong, true. But that isn't to say I have a thing against gay people at all. It's a sin. But then again, I vaguely remember Jesus telling some people "Let he who is perfect cast the first stone". Telling a group of people "YOU'RE GOING TO HELL" is as much a sin as whatever it is that group does.

If you do these 3 things, you will be fine in life:
Love God.
Love yourself.
Love all people.

[Jam930]

Originally Posted by Laharl

Love God.
Love yourself.
Love all people.

ahahahaha....im in a mormon family as well laharl, but i myself am neutral.

and for the "do these 3 things" no offense, it sounds like something wise and simple but its impossible. it's against all nature, instinct and reduces our free will to nothing.

and the bible being the word of god, meant to teach us how to live righteously...doesn't consist of just 3 lines saying

Love God.
Love yourself.
Love all people.

=/

[Chrissi]

I just read every post in this thread. Well I'm agnostic like a few others here. Zugman is very much a moron. I won't even get into how many mistakes his paragraph has. I'll just say I'm sorry for him.

I'm agnostic because I think that we, as humans, are too puny to comprehend stuff like God. Maybe there is a God, maybe there isn't. I don't know. There isn't any evidence for/against Him. Various people believe one or the other. Many people believe it very strongly. There is so much variety in religions that, well, I've sampled many of them. None of them make enough sense TO ME to follow. I'll just remain open-minded kthx.

Here's something I thought of.

The potential number of religions is infinite. The different ways to believe are infinite. There are so many things that one could consider is right. I could say that goats are Gods and that I'm supposed to bow down to them and eat their babies. I don't know. It's crazy, but I could believe that. There are an infinite number of things I could believe.

None of them have proof. Nobody can prove God exists. Nobody can prove God doesn't exist. Therefore, nobody can say that they are undeniably correct.

Now, if you consider that only ONE religion is right, like most religions do, it becomes easy to figure out.... one religion is right, out of an infinite number of them. One in infinity becomes so close to zero that we might as well consider it zero.

Therefore, nobody's right.

[Laharl]

Originally Posted by Jam930

ahahahaha....im in a mormon family as well laharl, but i myself am neutral.

and for the "do these 3 things" no offense, it sounds like something wise and simple but its impossible. it's against all nature, instinct and reduces our free will to nothing.

and the bible being the word of god, meant to teach us how to live righteously...doesn't consist of just 3 lines saying

Love God.
Love yourself.
Love all people.

=/

The way I see it, everything else is a derivative of those 3 things. By the way, I'm not just spouting this because it's what I've been told by people my entire life, but because it's what I've found to be true.

Love God: You'd be surprised what saying a prayer every night can do for a person, if it's honest and heartfelt. Also, doing so will help keep you on the right paths through life. If you utruly love God, things you'd later regret wouldn't ever occur, nor would things you may in fact not regret after all but should. :P

Love yourself: It doesn't do anyone any good to beat themselves up because they made mistakes, or are imperfect. I've been there. It sucks. It's vital to take care of yourself, to stay in good health both phyusically and emotionally.

Love others: Now, I don't mean to say, give everyone you ever meet a hug and be best friends with them. Some people, it's best to avoid contact with. It's just the nature of things. What I mean by saying that, is to never look down upon anyone else, for whatever they do. Being a conservative Christian man myself, often people accuse me of "hating gays" becasue I dissaprove of homosexuality. Truth of the matter is, they are people just like anyone else, just like *gasp* me. Sure, they are doing what I concieve to be a mistake or a sin, but no one is perfect.

You're right when you say this concept is against all nature and instinct. But how does it reduce my free will? It allows me to be friends with anyone, on my own choosing. It allows me to say hello to anyone, to be friendly with whomever I encounter.

Or are you accusing me of following my religion blindly? If that's the case, you're incorrect. I do this of my own choosing, because I've discovered it's true, and a worthy way to live my life, something I'll be proud of at the very end.

[Blondeybabe123]

Originally Posted by jewpinthethird

What makes this country so great is the fact that you can believe in what you want. And anyone who doesnt believe that is ignorant.

I agree with you entirely.... I beleaive that we live in this country to have freedom which entitles us to beleive in what ever we want to. Now, I also think that it is supid for people to fight about their disagreements because not every person is 100% correct; therefore, you shouldn't "fight" with someone because the two of you disagree. You should simply accept the fact that the other person beleives something diffrent than you do and you shouldn't whine about it. But, unfortunetly... we live in a world where alot of people are too conceeded to see that they arn't always correct... so we will always have people fighting. Anywho... I really have no clue what I just said and it is late so I will be going to bed now.