Is it wrong to be gay?

[Emithith]

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?

The only wrong thing about being gay is that they FEATURE it almost. (<< My opinion, that's not "wrong") lol It's not like straight people. I mean, I know there are some overly sexual people who are over the top about their sexuality and are straight, but it's almost a thing with gay people to talk off key or what ever that weird ass tone in their voice is. If they could just assimilate into the community like others and keep their sexuality to their bedchambers (which, needs to be an universal thing, not just gay/lesbians) everything would be just fine.

I didn't read many of the previous posts because they were just walls of text that were annoying to read for me, so bear with me if I missed anything or am off topic.

Also, I find in CTs that people like to challenge any posts you make instead of just using them as food for thought. It's kinda annoying. I know it's a discussion, but..

I also have to say that it's not helping when people like the Westboro Baptist Church keep making the slurs against them. Gay/Lesbian isn't wrong, it's just not productive in furthering our species through reproduction.

/2cents. I probably will come back and respond, but I gotta gather my thoughts.

[rushyrulz]

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?

which is worse?

(NSFW)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2glCe-dlo8&t=2m46s

or

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8wqk6qD4r8

two extremes I know, but I find the first as equally as annoying as the second, which leads to the point that acting so over the top about your sexuality is probably never a good thing.

[flipsta_lombax]

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?

Do you perhaps want to have this discussion over MSN or something? I don't think a forum is going to do this discussion to much justice due to the complexity of it.

Nah, it's all good. I don't think anyone on a rhythm game site can think as complex as my argument, so maybe it's why it's automatically dismissed, but I appreciate you understanding my stance. And I totally get what you're saying, really.

I do want to say though, yes, opinions can be wrong. But I am ONLY regarding an opinion that reflects logic and experience, but alas I have dismissed those who create opinions 'out of their ass'. I myself DO NOT consider those as opinions, but moreso prejudice or just plain ignorance.

As rushy has pointed out, ignorance is bliss: it's the root of all life problems, but it'll never go away. We can only have wishful thinking if we want to rid of it. But whatever, I'm still a homosexual. Opinions or not, it's what it is.

[Cavernio]

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?

Just because no one replies to your post, doesn't mean it's glossed over. If you make your point well, there's nothing more needed to be added for the sake of the topic, and especially if I agree with it, enough said.

Emithith: The discussion went there in very recent posts. How would you have any idea how many gay people act gay if the opposite of what you're saying is true; that is, if most gay people didn't outwardly act gay? You would still largely be basing it on those people who do outwardly act gay, and you could come to the exact same conclusion.

Secondly, there's a very good reason for gays to act gay; so that people know they're gay. How would you like men to hit on you because they think you're gay? The reverse would happen to gays all the time if they didn't outwardly portray their sexuality in some way. It would also suck to have to specifically walk up to someone and ask 'are you gay?' before you could flirt, or if you couldn't tell at a glance if you could possibly have a shot with that girl.
Furthermore, you're conflating overt sexual behaviour with sexuality. Waggling your hips while you walk isn't exactly the same thing as making out in public. Or, if you're not conflating the 2, you're essentially asking the impossible: the majority of men are attracted to women and vice versa. That means straight people will always be overt about their sexuality simply because they have a visible gender. Are you suggesting we all hide our genders?
Another thing, if all sexuality were kept solely to the bedroom, finding a person to have sex with would have to revolve around something weird like nightly bedroom meet-ups or some such thing.
If you could just assimilate gays and the quirks they have adopted to fit into the community, then everything would be just fine.

That said, I'm sure that if I were gay I'd probably try and act specifically not gay most of the time or something in an attempt to keep my own individual identity because I'm dumb like that.

[Emithith]

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?

Just because no one replies to your post, doesn't mean it's glossed over. If you make your point well, there's nothing more needed to be added for the sake of the topic, and especially if I agree with it, enough said.

Emithith: The discussion went there in very recent posts. How would you have any idea how many gay people act gay if the opposite of what you're saying is true; that is, if most gay people didn't outwardly act gay? You would still largely be basing it on those people who do outwardly act gay, and you could come to the exact same conclusion.

Secondly, there's a very good reason for gays to act gay; so that people know they're gay. How would you like men to hit on you because they think you're gay? The reverse would happen to gays all the time if they didn't outwardly portray their sexuality in some way. It would also suck to have to specifically walk up to someone and ask 'are you gay?' before you could flirt, or if you couldn't tell at a glance if you could possibly have a shot with that girl.
Furthermore, you're conflating overt sexual behaviour with sexuality. Waggling your hips while you walk isn't exactly the same thing as making out in public. Or, if you're not conflating the 2, you're essentially asking the impossible: the majority of men are attracted to women and vice versa. That means straight people will always be overt about their sexuality simply because they have a visible gender. Are you suggesting we all hide our genders?
Another thing, if all sexuality were kept solely to the bedroom, finding a person to have sex with would have to revolve around something weird like nightly bedroom meet-ups or some such thing.
If you could just assimilate gays and the quirks they have adopted to fit into the community, then everything would be just fine.

That said, I'm sure that if I were gay I'd probably try and act specifically not gay most of the time or something in an attempt to keep my own individual identity because I'm dumb like that.

Having a friend that you know is female and not a lesbian would work better than people hooking up in clubs and jacking up the over the top population rate further by having sex for pleasure.
Either way this is a gay right/wrong conversation, so let's not get into that. I understand it would probably be pretty damn hard to get someone if you were gay, if you can't show it, but I don't exactly mean "acting gay" I mean that higher pitched voice/accent thing. It's the most annoying thing ever, and it seriously annoys me when I hear it. TALK NORMALLY DAAAMNITTTTTT.
Why do they have to talk that way to get attention? Why can't they just wear a ring on their finger or something. Or like do something less annoying.

I was trying out the gay accent in vidchat last night and I couldn't even do it rofl.

lmao

[fido123]

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?

The only wrong thing about being gay is that they FEATURE it almost. (<< My opinion, that's not "wrong")

it's almost a thing with gay people to talk off key or what ever that weird ass tone in their voice is. If they could just assimilate into the community like others and keep their sexuality to their bedchambers

The problem I find with your post is, as I've stated very recently (which I think you should refer to my posts in the past 2 pages) is most gays aren't like that. Just the ones you notice. If a gay guy wasn't acting like a flamboiant homo right in your face you probably wouldn't ever think he's gay. If you saw me I garentee you wouldn't even know. Also please try to understand that although for some I guess it is majorly a "sex" thing, but I would think for most including myself, being gay is just what kind of people you can develop an intimate emotional connection with. Honestly, your average straight guy probably has more of a sex drive than me. I want a relationship more than anything.

Also, I find in CTs that people like to challenge any posts you make instead of just using them as food for thought. It's kinda annoying. I know it's a discussion, but..

Don't you find it insightful to have other people's input on your opinion to perhaps refine your own? Take from people's experiances? Having an opinion but "getting annoyed" when people challenge or comment on it is probably a shitty and unrefined opinion. If you're going to take that stance I'd suggest you don't take your own opinions too seriously. I swear though I'm not this cold IRL lol.

Gay/Lesbian isn't wrong, it's just not productive in furthering our species through reproduction.

Does increasing our population really help us? As I stated before I think this is just ideology passed down from the 50's when it was your "CIVIC DUTY" to pump out as many kids as you could. There's a strong argument these days that population growth is a bad thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Robert_Malthus#Proposed_solutions

Nah, it's all good. I don't think anyone on a rhythm game site can think as complex as my argument

Sorry but you're sounding pretty condecending here as if you're opinion is right, we just don't understand it. I assume I'm mistaken taking from what I usually see from you? Also with regards to the rest of your post I understand, but that's a whole other argument. I just point out irrationalities in people's opinions, or what I believe to be mistruths (which I may be wrong about, which in that case I encourage people to set me straight). I'm not as black and white as I may seem in this thread, I just honestly have never seen a rational argument. I think capitalism is the greatest system we got, but I know there are a lot of great points towards communism. Who's right? Nobody because it's subjective. With this it's not quite the case though outside of a religious context.

That said, I'm sure that if I were gay I'd probably try and act specifically not gay most of the time or something in an attempt to keep my own individual identity because I'm dumb like that.

I find acting like yourself not stupid at all. Acting like somebody else because you like vaginas attractive sounds pretty ****ing dumb to me.

[RubiedCross]

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?

I feel like I'm repeating myself, but everyone here needs a reminder as to the definition of the words they are using. Let's look at some of these examples, shall we?

(PS Flipsta has touched upon this and I agree with him upon some points, I'm just simplifying the point he's trying to make. I'd just like to say that people can still act on their opinions, though. If your opinion, you believe, is correct, then you shouldn't have to worry about "incorrect" opinions once you provide your reasoning. If they don't listen to reasoning, that's a totally different story and is not a reason to, for lack of a better term, "hate" people with differing opinions.)

Opinion
This is where you make a statement that is not - I repeat, IS NOT - based on fact or reason. Opinions are subjective. They CAN NOT be proved or dispproven, because there is no definitive evidence. The example fido used is NOT an opinion; he made a statement that can be proven or dispproven. I will give an example of a statement.

Ex. "I find the color blue a very beautiful color"

Because I find the color blue beautiful does not mean you'll find it beautiful; that does not mean, however, that you can prove that it is not beautiful. This is an example of subjectivity. Now, this leads to my next point...

RIGHT or WRONG
Saying something is "Right" or "Wrong" is a completely SUBJECTIVE and OPINIONATED statement. Therefore, you can not prove that something is right or wrong. You just can't. You can get every single person in the world to agree that something is "right", but that does not make it right. It's subjective no matter how you look at it. Remember, I'm just defining this, not stating that you cannot state something is right or wrong. You just have to realize that you cannot prove it. You can, however, give reasons and try to persuade someone to agree with you.

We can pick and choose what we want to cite from the bible, but in the end I don't really care since there's often contradictions, for instance: "Quote" vs "Other Quote"

So I'm confused by the bible, and therefore won't use it as my guide seeing as I don't have any reason to believe what it says beyond trying to read and understand the bible (and I went to catholic school for 8 years). So without religion to fall back on, I turn to logic and science in an attempt to find answers for myself. I don't know maybe if I fail to find what I'm looking for with science and logic I'll turn elsewhere for answers as I mature.

Going to school does not mean that you studied the Bible. Until you have read it, studied it, and discerned it for yourself, you should not dismiss nor make up argument for or against it. What you should do, instead, is recognize that people will read and believe the Bible and that (if they are not merely lovers of opinion and what people tell them to believe) they have reason to believe what they believe. Whether you think it's stupid or not is irrelevant, and stating that people who use the Bible to determine what they believe are stupid is an example of bigotry itself. That is an another definition we should probably look at...

Bigotry
Bigotry is an intolerance towards people who hold different opinions than them. Here's something I really hope you guys can consider based on these definitions. To be intolerant of gays because someone believes that being homosexual is wrong is being a bigot; To be tolerant of gays and still believe that it is wrong is just holding an opinion. It works the other way as well! To be intolerant to those who believe being gay is wrong because you believe being gay is right, you're being a bigot; to tolerate them but understand they have a different opinion is just holding an opinion. The latter options of both of these represents a civilized stance between people which, once held, can lead to a discussion of why they believe what they believe.

For any newcomers to read this thread, READ PREVIOUS POSTS. If you want, just start at page 29 where I bumped the thread and read all posts from there, but PLEASE read previous posts. That will prevent tempers from flaring at trying to repeat the same points, and will hopefully add more to the thread than, well, just the same points over and over again.

Don't you find it insightful to have other people's input on your opinion to perhaps refine your own? Take from people's experiances? Having an opinion but "getting annoyed" when people challenge or comment on it is probably a shitty and unrefined opinion. If you're going to take that stance I'd suggest you don't take your own opinions too seriously. I swear though I'm not this cold IRL lol.

This is a great point and I want to re-edify it. "Getting annoyed" means that someone is opposing what you believe, just like fido said. You learn that way. Just don't let your emotions get the best of you; if you have an opinion or statement, back it up with the why to it and the person who opposes what you say will learn as well. That's why we're all here... right?

Does increasing our population really help us? As I stated before I think this is just ideology passed down from the 50's when it was your "CIVIC DUTY" to pump out as many kids as you could. There's a strong argument these days that population growth is a bad thing.

He seems to just be stating that scientifically homosexuality doesn't have a purpose other than pleasure, and that deals with the psychological realm. Whether population growth is a bad thing or not is something to be discussed somewhere else entirely and does not have anything to do with the fact that homosexuals are incapable of reproducing with other homosexuals.


This is all for now. I encourage this discussion and look forward to reading replies. Just try to think a little before you reply. This thread is the perfect place to discuss this idea within this community, people just have to adhere by the CT rules (i.e. the stickies that everyone reading what I'm saying right now should have already read).

[fido123]

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?

For the intolerance thing, I don't have any tolerance for it just like how I don't have tolerance for racism. It's like saying "I'm cool with black people but they're totally a bunch of nigs". I have no place for an opinion on any matter that is not backed up with logic and rationality. Some people are just wrong. I leave it open that there may be a logical reason out there, except I havn't heard it. Also my comments are all said under the assumption that religion is false. I'm not saying it is, I'm just personally doubtful of it and ultimatly do not know, I just build my opinions off the assumption the Bible etc is false since I don't see any evidence to support its claims.

[Emithith]

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?

Does increasing our population really help us? As I stated before I think this is just ideology passed down from the 50's when it was your "CIVIC DUTY" to pump out as many kids as you could. There's a strong argument these days that population growth is a bad thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_...osed_solutions

In Canada schools don't like Wikipedia if you are writing a report or an essay, j/s.

Having a friend that you know is female and not a lesbian would work better than people hooking up in clubs and jacking up the over the top population rate further by having sex for pleasure.

I think you overlooked this.

Also, I don't mind people "refining" my idea, and making it more logical, but some people literally attack others with their own idea. It's pretty stupid. -.-

[fido123]

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?

I'm in Canada too actually ~2 hours away from you. Wikipedia isn't good for academic papers but I feel it serves it's purpose just fine on here. If you want ot back anything up you can always look it up yourself. And yeah sorry I guess I did =U

[Emithith]

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?

I'm in Canada too actually ~2 hours away from you. Wikipedia isn't good for academic papers but I feel it serves it's purpose just fine on here. If you want ot back anything up you can always look it up yourself. And yeah sorry I guess I did =U

lol I was just bringing that up to destroy that debate between you and mike or someone before that it's not a legitimate resource for info or something.

I also completely forgot that, too. lmao fellow Canadians COMBINE POWA!

[rushyrulz]

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?

Going to school does not mean that you studied the Bible. Until you have read it, studied it, and discerned it for yourself, you should not dismiss nor make up argument for or against it.

I actually won my school's "Bible Bowl" which is basically a quiz of sorts about things from the bible, so I have read and studied a significant chunk. Do I know what it says? Yes. Do I know what it means? maybe, but then again does anyone fully understand the bible? Do I choose to believe the non-philosophical aspects of the bible? No, and the main reason I'm agnostic is because I constantly hear people 'talk the talk' but I have never seen anyone 'walk the walk' when it comes to religion, and until I do I will remain agnostic. But we're digressing from the topic of the thread by talking about religion.

I believe the consensual answer to the thread title, "Is it wrong to be gay?" is "no." since there's no more ChesterDaltons to argue against it anymore. This thread will most likely die back down again soon since we're pretty much beating a dead horse at this point.

[Emithith]

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?

p.much. People have had their reasons for saying No it's not, but in the end, the answer is no. No use fighting over why your answer is better if you are agreeing in the longrun. xD