To debate religion or not, that is the question

[deathbyteacup]

hey afrobean i am a christian and i just wanted to jump into your discussion i wanted you to know that evolution had not honestly been provable because i have researched that topic to know end and everything they have come up with as missing links and everything have not been provable because they had a species named Lucy they thought was the missing link that was an animal they thought could stand up but still had the shape of a monkey. They eventually found out it was a pigmy chimp, it was a male, and they had based everything off of one bone out of the entire skeleton. Also following evolutionary laws, all species should evolve from single celled very simplistic animals to very complex billion celled creatures. Although according to Darwins tree of evolution it is incorrect because the tilobyte is one animal that defied that law. It was one of the first creatures discovered to be a very early animal which they therefore placed at the bottom of the tree where the simple animals were, although they found out that the trilobyte had the ability of using one eye to see something about 2 feet away clearly while they other could see something miles away clearly too. So according to the law which is the basis of evolution, the trilobyte should be placed near the bottom since it was such an early animal, although it is so complex that is should really then be placed near the top, but that is now contradictory. Along with that is the Heckel pictures, where he painted these pictures of embrios of different animals, like a human, a bird, a turtle, and something else, and they all looked extraordinarily similar, although it was later discovered that the paintings were faked and he had taken different stages of development in those animals which looked slightly similar and tried to make them even similar by faking them. That was one of the biggest points of proof for the evolutionists, even after they discovered it to be true it was still being taught as factual evidence in schools. Only in the last probably decade it has been recorded as false in textbooks. Now those are only a few examples if you need more of where evolution had proved itself to be wrong.

Another thing with the Bible not being able to prove itself in the modern day world that contradicts your ideas are all of the prophecies that have been fulfilled in our modern world. There is one in particular that i like beacuse it is easy for people to mess with even now. In the Bible years ago there was a prophecy that a city named Tyre was powerful and magnificant city of the Asyrians, and it was prophecied that the city would be destroyed and a new city of Tyre would be built on an island and the Romans came along and threw the old pieces of the old Tyre into the sea to create a causeway to the island so they could destroy the city. And it was said to be a place that would be be a place for the spreading of nets and never rebuild again. Even today on that island you can find peices of the old city in the ocean surrounding the island, and fishermen still spread there nets on the island. and it fell under that reign of Alexander the Great in 332 BC and if you want more proof to anything i have said or some more examples tell me

[Grandiagod]

Originally Posted by studmuffin51306

Yes, I am saying that everything in Science is an educated guess. ALl the things you mentioned are only true in certain cases, and have not been proven with all variables considered.

Yep, gravity isn't true in some cases. In some cases black holes don't exist.

YEAH THAT MAKES SENSE.

Religion is not happy being unproven. RELIGION IS PROVEN! Religion has been accepted as fact for much longer than Science has, so I would say that my fact is more credible than yours.

Proven:

1. to establish the truth or genuineness of, as by evidence or argument: to prove one's claim.
2. Law. to establish the authenticity or validity of (a will); probate.
3. to give demonstration of by action.
4. to subject to a test, experiment, comparison, analysis, or the like, to determine quality, amount, acceptability, characteristics, etc.: to prove ore.
5. to show (oneself) to have the character or ability expected of one, esp. through one's actions.
6. Mathematics. to verify the correctness or validity of by mathematical demonstration or arithmetical proof

Also, to counter your claim "religion has been accepted as fact way before science"

Well, the earth was believed flat and that the sun rotated around it. That is, until science had its way.

You are not the scientific community, and you do not decide what the scientific community accepts. The atheistic scientific community does not accept it because they are atheists and will not change their mind. There is a large percentage, whether you believe it or not, that is in favor of religion and intellegent design.

Yes, and there are people who think God is killing soldiers because the US accepts gays. There are people who believe the government blew up the WTC and there are people who believe the moon landing was a hoax.

A lot of people believe dumb things. This is not news.

PS. The large majority of the scientific community is not Christian.

[studmuffin51306]

Originally Posted by Afrobean

By the way, creationism is considered by most to be a pseudoscience, putting it in the same categories as such jokes as astrology and UFO-ology.

Prove it.

Originally Posted by Afrobean

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...6&q=banana+god

THat's hilarious, but tell me, what isn't credible about his points?

In response to your image. This is true, because religion has given us the conclusion, and for those doubters in the world, they must find evidence to prove it.

Originally Posted by Afrobean

rofl @ saying religion is right because it's older

also, rofl @ saying creation science is a legitimate science

also, rofl @ saying there is a large percentage of scientists who are in favor of intelligent design

YOu sure are a jolly person.
I said religion is more reliable because it has been accepted longer. Your new theories have only recently come into the picture.

Creation Science is a legitimate Science. Big Bang Science is not ligitimate, because it cannot find a source for all the matter than supposedly magically came together then exploded and created everything.

And there are a large percentage of scientists who are in favor of intellegent design.

[Afrobean]

Haha.

So, because one person got over zealous and faked some things, then that means that the side he was on is proven wrong? What about religious people making things up? Does that mean they're proved wrong as well?

Your trillobyte anecdote is irrelevent, and it really seems that you may have misunderstood what was going on. There is no "top" and "bottom" to the classifications of animals. Who cares if it's simple, but has eyes? Does that mean that slugs should be at the "top"? Eyes are a basic part of animal life. Honestly, how many animals do you know of that don't have eyes? Even the simple ones such as insects have eyes. Saying that something is complex and simple at the same time, simply because it has eyes is ridiculous. And yeah, if you're going to go that way, EVERYTHING is complex to a degree when it comes to life Your whole arguement there is null.

[BluE_MeaniE]

Originally Posted by deathbyteacup

*snip*

Let me paraphrase Michael Shermer in his "debate" with Kent Hovind:

You're using the tactic used by many pseudo-scientific ad-hoc-reasoning-loving groups such as holocaust denialists (the group Michael Shermer specifically used as an example). It's like saying "you used to say that 10 million Jews were killed. Now you say 6 million were killed. That means none were killed!"

The fact that science continually proves evidence as faulty and throws it out is basically proof that science works. The other fact remains that there are heaps and heaps of evidence for evolution.

[Afrobean]

Originally Posted by studmuffin51306

supposedly magically came together then exploded and created everything.

Sounds like God to me when you say "supposedly" and "magically".

EDIT: oh btw look up pseudoscience on wikipedia. Creationism is listed on there. Sure, it might have been someone like me who thinks it's a bunch of malarky, but the fact that it's there and hasn't been removed supports the idea that people accept it as illegitimate.

[studmuffin51306]

Originally Posted by Grandiagod

Yes, and there are people who think God is killing soldiers because the US accepts gays. There are people who believe the government blew up the WTC and there are people who believe the moon landing was a hoax.

A lot of people believe dumb things. This is not news.

I don't represent any of these people. I represent a true religion that is well proven (read deathbyteacup's post) and is just as believable, if not more, than science.

Originally Posted by Afrobean

Sounds like God to me when you "supposedly" and "magically".

At least God is an explanation, Tell me how all the matter in the universe came together. Tell me how there was even matter in the universe without someone putting it there.

God is not magic. God is all powerful.
God has thousands of years of proof behind him. Modern science is modern and faulty.

[Afrobean]

rofl

This has turned totally into a "religion: is it real?" debate.

I also find it funny that people who believe in God are asking me to prove things.

[MCRenaissance]

Originally Posted by studmuffin51306

I don't represent any of these people. I represent a true religion that is well proven (read deathbyteacup's post) and is just as believable, if not more, than science.

EDIT: Nevermind, what I said was too funny and too fucked up for CT.

[Squeek]

As opposed to "fake" religions, right?

Proof? You mean the Bible or something? That big honking book of prejudice, racism, sexism, and most importantly, fiction?

I mean, aside from you physically seeing / touching / hearing your lord and savior, how can you have proof in a religion based on faith?

[Afrobean]

Squeek, you can't be so disrespectful.

You should be locking this AND PROVING ME RIGHT ABOUT MY PREMISE OF RELIGION DEBATES GOING NOWHERE PLZ

[studmuffin51306]

Originally Posted by Afrobean

rofl

This has turned totally into a "religion: is it real?" debate.

I also find it funny that people who believe in God are asking me to proove things.

because God is more proven than Science is.
And yes, it has, as any thread with a similar title will. It is just such a big topic.

[studmuffin51306]

Originally Posted by Squeek

As opposed to "fake" religions, right?

Proof? You mean the Bible or something? That big honking book of prejudice, racism, sexism, and most importantly, fiction?

I mean, aside from you physically seeing / touching / hearing your lord and savior, how can you have proof in a religion based on faith?

Have you been reading at all?



SOrry for double posting.

[Afrobean]

because God is more proven than Science is.

Ok, I can't even talk to you anymore.

[studmuffin51306]

Originally Posted by Afrobean

Ok, I can't even talk to you anymore.

Then don't and let it be over.

[Grandiagod]

Originally Posted by studmuffin51306

I don't represent any of these people. I represent a true religion that is well proven (read deathbyteacup's post) and is just as believable, if not more, than science.

I tried to read that, really, I did. It was a poorly written, mistake ridden, wall of text. My eyes couldn't handle it.

At least God is an explanation, Tell me how all the matter in the universe came together. Tell me how there was even matter in the universe without someone putting it there.

That is what science is trying to figure out. There are theories, but it's better than, GOD PUT THEM THERE LOL. Besides, if everything has to be finite with you, How did god come to exist?

God is not magic. God is all powerful.
God has thousands of years of proof behind him. Modern science is modern and faulty.

Thousands of years of belief, not proof. Buhdism, Islam and Wicca have as much belief.

Refer to the definition of proof in my earlier post.

[deathbyteacup]

yo afrothing you need to realize if you are going to be discussing science you should also realize that if you are in a debate to fight without trying to be a mature open minded person about it then you have no use in debating about it, because in order to be a good scientist you must be a skeptic and you must keep an open mind to every single option of reasoning until it is proven obsolete.

[Afrobean]

Oh one thing before I'm out:

The other side refusing to say anything due to not being able to talk with someone because they're retarded is not the same thing as the other side conceding.

[Squeek]

Originally Posted by studmuffin51306

Have you been reading at all?

No.

Religious debates are retarded and a waste of time.

I ask you to prove something to me about your religion. Anything other than the obvious. That would make for a more interesting read.

God is more proven than science? How?! Answer, please. Elaborate, because even Christians I knew in my youth group who actually studied the Bible had trouble believing in their god.

[deathbyteacup]

hey dancing chicken i want you to know that i dont honestly care about grammar and capitalization and spending time doing all that junk when there are things to be debated and you havent proven much at all. all you have done is try to trample someone without any respect so y would there be reason to listen to you