TOP Players / Tier Requirements Thread - Updated 7/8/09 - Page 103

MarukuAntoni · 11-2-2007, 01:56 PM

the system should be changed a bit. like others have said those with a better PA should be ranked higher than someone who just fced it. take me for example. i have 300+ fcs and 50+ aaas. there are better people with better PAs that are ranked lower than me. ive just been getting fortunate on some of the fcs.

**dore** · 11-2-2007, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimerax

Pre-total score is quite dependent on PA, and it is sometimes used in unofficial tournaments. But I'm not sure it's actually recorded in the database (we can calculate it from other parameters).

Although perfect count would be better indication for accuracy IMO since it's purer.

I like pre-total score better. Calculating points based on perfect count is misleading because it weights goods, averages, and misses the same. Somebody who gets 10 misses on a song should not get a better score than someone who gets a 15 good FC. Pre-total score weights each of the judgements and comparatively gives a better indication of skill.

I agree that the rankings should not be based so much on combo, as avmisses are annoying, retarded, and not indicative of total skill. But it does take skill to avoid avmisses, and therefore you must weight avmisses accordingly and not just ignore their existence.

MrRubix · 11-2-2007, 03:46 PM

dore: Alternatively, you could convert every judgment unit into # of Perfects (ie. a Good is worth a fraction of a Perfect), and this would guard against the case you have described. This would be an effective way to gauge overall accuracy.

For easier songs, this is not a problem and is fair beyond reasonable doubt. For harder songs, combo should be integrated. You are right that it takes skill to avoid avmisses. But on easier songs, this is not nearly so much of an issue because there aren't so many framers, and framers aren't so extreme. For harder songs, there are more framers and they can also be more extreme (ie. 3-framers, occasional 2-framer), and these take a great deal of skill to master. Therefore, harder songs SHOULD account for this area of skill, but for easier songs, combo becomes negligable imo.

Really, I think this is all a much better way to do things. Break up the lists, convert judgment breakdowns into a common standard, evaluate through these eventual summations, integrate combo on songs made difficult via framers, and you've got yourself a much better system for evaluating skill.

**dore** · 11-2-2007, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrRubix

dore: Alternatively, you could convert every judgment unit into # of Perfects (ie. a Good is worth a fraction of a Perfect), and this would guard against the case you have described. This would be an effective way to gauge overall accuracy.

That would work too.

Quote:

For easier songs, this is not a problem and is fair beyond reasonable doubt. For harder songs, combo should be integrated. You are right that it takes skill to avoid avmisses. But on easier songs, this is not nearly so much of an issue because there aren't so many framers, and framers aren't so extreme. For harder songs, there are more framers and they can also be more extreme (ie. 3-framers, occasional 2-framer), and these take a great deal of skill to master. Therefore, harder songs SHOULD account for this area of skill, but for easier songs, combo becomes negligable imo.

Maybe averages and misses could be weighted less on harder levels? since it's much easier to not deserve them on the harder levels due to framers.

MrRubix · 11-2-2007, 04:11 PM

That is an idea -- but then you run into possible issues. Say you get 1 miss on Demon Fire -- you miss a framer somewhere around step 850 (hypothetically), and that winds up being your max combo. But say you get that miss near the end and you end up with a 1580 combo. Clearly the later miss is more desirable and more indicative of skill on a harder song with tons of steps and framers. I am not sure if merely making Averages/Misses worth less will fix the issue for harder songs. I think combo will need to have *some* influence in addition to the score conversion.

lxDestinyxl · 11-2-2007, 04:59 PM

Finally has been updated.

**darkshark** · 11-2-2007, 05:39 PM

Tier 0 feels so empty again.

btw rofl at my AAA count.

MrRubix · 11-2-2007, 05:43 PM

lol check out dore's

**gnr61** · 11-2-2007, 10:53 PM

lmfao check out gnr's

OWAIT IM NOT ON THE LIST

OWTF SAFARI RECOGNIZES OWAIT AS A WORD

**jimerax** · 11-3-2007, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dore

I like pre-total score better. Calculating points based on perfect count is misleading because it weights goods, averages, and misses the same. Somebody who gets 10 misses on a song should not get a better score than someone who gets a 15 good FC. Pre-total score weights each of the judgements and comparatively gives a better indication of skill.

I wouldn't say the skill should be judged only by perfect count, but it's still the best indication for accuracy. pre-total is fine, it should have more penalties for misses and boos though.

ledwix · 11-3-2007, 01:13 AM

i think inactives should be tossed. otherwise, it looks like lump is better than baha and fanta is better than danceguy.

**jimerax** · 11-3-2007, 01:21 AM

yeah they look a bit weird but we need to define inactivity.

[HectoGtzMX] · 11-3-2007, 01:24 AM

Not posting their lists between updates?

MrRubix · 11-3-2007, 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimerax

I wouldn't say the skill should be judged only by perfect count, but it's still the best indication for accuracy. pre-total is fine, it should have more penalties for misses and boos though.

I think all judgments should be converted into a common metric.

Simonsmp · 11-3-2007, 06:49 AM

- FC >= AAA * 98% -
Other 4.5 or above songs

Why didn't I get tier points for that?

Btw, apologies for PA lolol

**travman301** · 11-3-2007, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simonsmp

Btw, apologies for PA lolol

Your PA is so bad, that your score would be the same if you missed one.

: / Lol...

Simonsmp · 11-3-2007, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by travman301

Your PA is so bad, that your score would be the same if you missed one.

: / Lol...

rofl i know, still a FC though!! Nfi why but my PA has suffered severely today! Only today aswell

See the thread I made in general forum

**jimerax** · 11-3-2007, 01:19 PM

Just made a PA related thread, it has a different concept from this thread.

http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...ad.php?t=81276

**dore** · 11-3-2007, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimerax

yeah they look a bit weird but we need to define inactivity.

Last ten games played- If the word months is anywhere to be seen

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simonsmp

- FC >= AAA * 98% -
Other 4.5 or above songs

Why didn't I get tier points for that?

Btw, apologies for PA lolol

FFR rounds up. Your score is 97.5% which shows up as 98% on FFR. The Tier Points system uses 98% as the minimum, so your score is lower.

heyitsmee · 11-4-2007, 02:50 PM

something is wrong here

tier

2/5 - Tambourin Chinois
(5)- AAA (1,047,800)
(4)- 5 or fewer (1,046,700)
(3)- 15 or fewer (1,045,325) +470
(2)- 30 or fewer (1,039,550) (1,044,755)
(1)- Full Combo (1,021,605)

i just got 11-0-0-1

224 10 Tambourin Chinois 1,044,755*

11-2-2007, 01:56 PM	#2041
MarukuAntoni mmmMMMmmm Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: California Age: 38 Posts: 521	Re: TOP Players / Tier Requirements Thread - Updated 10/31/07 the system should be changed a bit. like others have said those with a better PA should be ranked higher than someone who just fced it. take me for example. i have 300+ fcs and 50+ aaas. there are better people with better PAs that are ranked lower than me. ive just been getting fortunate on some of the fcs. __________________ IF I CAN CLIMB A TREE, I CAN CLIMB MT EVEREST. IF I CAN DRIVE A CAR, I CAN PILOT A SPACE SHUTTLE. IF I CAN PEE, I CAN BE THE PRESIDENT. IF I CAN POO, I CAN RULE THE WORLD!

11-2-2007, 03:46 PM	#2043
MrRubix FFR Player Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: New York City, New York Posts: 8,340	Re: TOP Players / Tier Requirements Thread - Updated 10/31/07 dore: Alternatively, you could convert every judgment unit into # of Perfects (ie. a Good is worth a fraction of a Perfect), and this would guard against the case you have described. This would be an effective way to gauge overall accuracy. For easier songs, this is not a problem and is fair beyond reasonable doubt. For harder songs, combo should be integrated. You are right that it takes skill to avoid avmisses. But on easier songs, this is not nearly so much of an issue because there aren't so many framers, and framers aren't so extreme. For harder songs, there are more framers and they can also be more extreme (ie. 3-framers, occasional 2-framer), and these take a great deal of skill to master. Therefore, harder songs SHOULD account for this area of skill, but for easier songs, combo becomes negligable imo. Really, I think this is all a much better way to do things. Break up the lists, convert judgment breakdowns into a common standard, evaluate through these eventual summations, integrate combo on songs made difficult via framers, and you've got yourself a much better system for evaluating skill. Last edited by MrRubix; 11-2-2007 at 03:55 PM..

11-2-2007, 04:11 PM	#2045
MrRubix FFR Player Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: New York City, New York Posts: 8,340	Re: TOP Players / Tier Requirements Thread - Updated 10/31/07 That is an idea -- but then you run into possible issues. Say you get 1 miss on Demon Fire -- you miss a framer somewhere around step 850 (hypothetically), and that winds up being your max combo. But say you get that miss near the end and you end up with a 1580 combo. Clearly the later miss is more desirable and more indicative of skill on a harder song with tons of steps and framers. I am not sure if merely making Averages/Misses worth less will fix the issue for harder songs. I think combo will need to have some influence in addition to the score conversion.

11-2-2007, 04:59 PM	#2046
lxDestinyxl FFR Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 3,247	Re: TOP Players / Tier Requirements Thread - Updated 10/31/07 Finally has been updated. __________________

11-2-2007, 05:39 PM	#2047
darkshark Nothing. Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The Pacific Ocean Posts: 4,189	Re: TOP Players / Tier Requirements Thread - Updated 10/31/07 Tier 0 feels so empty again. btw rofl at my AAA count.

11-2-2007, 05:43 PM	#2048
MrRubix FFR Player Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: New York City, New York Posts: 8,340	Re: TOP Players / Tier Requirements Thread - Updated 10/31/07 lol check out dore's

11-2-2007, 10:53 PM	#2049
gnr61 FFR Simfile Author Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: TOKYO STYLE SPEEDCORE, ohio Age: 35 Posts: 7,251	Re: TOP Players / Tier Requirements Thread - Updated 10/31/07 lmfao check out gnr's OWAIT IM NOT ON THE LIST OWTF SAFARI RECOGNIZES OWAIT AS A WORD __________________ squirrel--it's whats for dinner.

11-3-2007, 01:13 AM	#2051
ledwix Giant Pi Operator Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: California Age: 35 Posts: 2,878	Re: TOP Players / Tier Requirements Thread - Updated 10/31/07 i think inactives should be tossed. otherwise, it looks like lump is better than baha and fanta is better than danceguy.

11-3-2007, 01:21 AM	#2052
jimerax ★_★★^★★ Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Tokyo Posts: 8,185	Re: TOP Players / Tier Requirements Thread - Updated 10/31/07 yeah they look a bit weird but we need to define inactivity.

11-3-2007, 01:24 AM	#2053
[HectoGtzMX] FFR Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Mexic0, puEbla ^^ Age: 39 Posts: 1,474	Re: TOP Players / Tier Requirements Thread - Updated 10/31/07 Not posting their lists between updates? __________________ • It's coming for you •

11-3-2007, 01:19 PM	#2058
jimerax ★_★★^★★ Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Tokyo Posts: 8,185	Re: TOP Players / Tier Requirements Thread - Updated 10/31/07 Just made a PA related thread, it has a different concept from this thread. http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...ad.php?t=81276

11-4-2007, 02:50 PM	#2060
heyitsmee FFR Player Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Israel Posts: 2,042	Re: TOP Players / Tier Requirements Thread - Updated 10/31/07 something is wrong here tier 2/5 - Tambourin Chinois (5)- AAA (1,047,800) (4)- 5 or fewer (1,046,700) (3)- 15 or fewer (1,045,325) +470 (2)- 30 or fewer (1,039,550) (1,044,755) (1)- Full Combo (1,021,605) i just got 11-0-0-1 224 10 Tambourin Chinois 1,044,755* __________________

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