My mindset on video games

[Squeek]

I asked you once to spell my name right.

Anyway, I did say that I played the game for an hour or so. I did engage in some battles, one of which being a mini-boss. Moving on...

I SINCERELY doubt that a pre-teen could complete Super Monkey Ball, even though this may have been the intended player of the game. Sure, that person could complete beginner, and maybe advanced. That person might even get halfway through Expert. But that person wouldn't be able to completely finish it.

Take my 4-year old cousin for example. This is a pretty bad example... but he managed to complete Luigi's Mansion, 1080 Avalance, Super Mario Sunshine, and Starfox Adventures on his own. Sure, it is not the classic style of RPG we are referring to, but the adventure games all have a story.

...This is probably not making my cause any better...

~Squeek

[jewpinthethird]

You know what was a real intellectual game? Katamari Damacy. Has anybody gotten all the countries and unlocked the 3 bonus stages?

Now, I love Katamari Damacy, but how does rolling a ball around equal intellegence? Sure, you have to know when the mass is big enough to pick up other bigger whatnot, but that doesnt seem like it requires intellegence as much as it requires skill. Same goes for Super Monkey Ball, and Ikugara, they all require good hand-eye coordination, and quick reflexes more than anything.

You know what was a real intellectual game? Ico. You dont just have puzzles to solve, you have problems to solve. The level designers are geniuses and solving the puzzles are no easy task. When I game requires that you stop and think about the best way to beat a level, then I consider it intellectual, which is exactly what I found myself doing in Ico quite often. And mind you, I am not dumb...or even average. Though I wouldnt say I am intellegent...because I am modest.

CHOCOBORIDER, PLEASE READ THE FORUM RULES. NOW. AND DON'T EVER DOUBLE POST AGAIN.

[Squeek]

Well, with Katamari, I suppose you could say it's more skill than it is intellect. I was mainly referring to completing the three challenges. If you do not write out a thorough plan of action beforehand, completing the challenge is going to be impossible. You can't just do it spur-of-the-moment. And with the last one that lasts as long as it does, retrying again and again is going to waste a whole lot of your time.

With Super Monkey Ball, you definitely have to sit there and think. You can think while retrying for the millionth time, but it really does require thought. A whole crapload of thought at that. It's not just skill that will get you through Master, or Extra Master. Even with 100 lives (as I have), you probably won't pass if you just roll around and not think about anything.

Ikaruga is just skill as well... Ah, well. If we're going to say these are skill, how can one say any RPG isn't as well? You develop the skills necessary from the beginning of the game and every battle just requires you to utilize those skills.

~Squeek

[Chocoborider29]

Really, if played right, an RPG requires much more skill, due to the fact that you are required to retain even the smallest amounts of information for later use. Recent RPGs like FFonline, FF10, Morrowind,Zelda (ALL OF THE RECENT EDITIONS FOR GAMECUBE) have dissapointed me because of the lack of thought required to pass each section and event in the game. Not that they werent good games, but they just werent good RPGs.

[Moogy]

Completely aside from the matter...

You know what was a real intellectual game? Katamari Damacy. Has anybody gotten all the countries and unlocked the 3 bonus stages?

Yes.

[Chromer]

First off RPGs are probably the most intelligent form of game you could find out of puzzles. You state that Super Monkey Ball is more for high level thinkers? Why? How is getting a monkey across a platform without falling off more "high level" intelligent? You also say that pressing "attack" isn't hard. Have you ever played Mario and Luigi Superstar Saga? This game incorporates the thought process of being able to counter-attack and figure which moves can lower enemy defenses as well as to your advantage.

But that's a weak example. Take the Final Fantasy series from FFVII. I don't care what people say, these RPGs are some of the most intelligent games I've ever played. The stories might be weak at times, but ask anyone whose played them and they'll say that it takes a higher level of thinking to destroy some of the enemies and bosses in those games.

Also on the role of adventure games being intelligent, has anyone here other than me ever play Beyond Good and Evil? Not only does this game have a very intelligent and mature storyline, the puzzles are also intelligent as well. The fighting plays on the simplicity of KH, but unfolds in a cinematic, intelligent way only Michael Ancel can do.

With that out of the way, I also have something to say to Moogy. Star Ocean 3 isn't the hardest RPG game of all time. Tales of Eternia for the PSX is.

[Squeek]

First off RPGs are probably the most intelligent form of game you could find out of puzzles. You state that Super Monkey Ball is more for high level thinkers? Why? How is getting a monkey across a platform without falling off more "high level" intelligent?

Incorporate the obstacles first, buddy. It's not just "hold up and you go through the goal and sometimes you have to turn but that's all." The harder levels all require hefty planning and trial and error to accomplish.

You also say that pressing "attack" isn't hard. Have you ever played Mario and Luigi Superstar Saga? This game incorporates the thought process of being able to counter-attack and figure which moves can lower enemy defenses as well as to your advantage.

...You're using Mario and Luigi Superstar Saga, a game made for 10-year olds, to back your claim? That had to be the simplest battle system ever. If you were actually trying, you would have suggested Paper Mario 2, and even that was simple.

Also, that style of battle started in Super Mario RPG.

Take the Final Fantasy series from FFVII. I don't care what people say, these RPGs are some of the most intelligent games I've ever played. The stories might be weak at times, but ask anyone whose played them and they'll say that it takes a higher level of thinking to destroy some of the enemies and bosses in those games.

I haven't played any Final Fantasy game other than FFX because I heard they all sucked. FFX sucked and it was far too simple. The story was lame and the bosses were far too easy.

~Squeek

[Brainmaster07]

There's a difference between strategy and skill.

Ikaruga? I wouldn't consider that real heavy strategy wise. Yes, figuring out which patterns to follows and where to be when to gain large chains does require planning and trial and error, but it's much more dependant on if you can survive through the level in the first place. I don't think someone with a low IQ would have all that much trouble with the game if they were skilled enough. That game requires a lot of practice, a lot of focus, a lot of patience and a extremely good reflexes, but as far as higher level thinking goes, memorizing patterns is the lowest tier of thinking there is.

Super Monkey Ball 1/2 really just depends on how you play it. If you make your own strats to get the best possible score, there is A LOT to take into account, especially in the harder levels. And it really requires you to think out of the box. Take S10-6 - Labyrinth for example. Whoever came up with that strat to do roughly 5 corner/wall bounces and land next to the goal within 10 seconds (normally takes around a minute) really had to think out of the box. Now executing the strat is different, it is more skill dependent. Can you look at what somebody else did and mimmick it/improve on their strat? The main game has a little of both, planning how you are going to go about beating the level (Ooparts comes to mind, god damn the level) and actually doing it. You can't beat this game if your brain-dead or just plain suck. Have to have a bit of both worlds.

As for games that require thinking? There are no new age games the require a lot of thinking. I'd suggest looking back to those old school text based games. (That I know of anyway, if you know some I'd love to hear them )


EDIT: W00t, 5 typos in one sentance. That was awesome.

[StarOceanFanboy]

Heh, thanks for the compliment, chocoborider (even if it did get you in trouble for a double post).

Anyway, I myself have never played Monkey Ball, so excuse me for saying this: it seems as if this game requires less intellect and more skill with the controller. Now, most puzzle games do require strategy, like my favorite, Super Puzzle Fighter 2 Turbo. But, RPGs, in my opinion, do require the most brainpower. That, or strategy games, like Fire Emblem (which is where I got my avatar from, by the way).

[Squeek]

Lucky for you, a Super Monkey Ball DX is coming out for PS2. Retrieve it at all costs.

Lucky for us, a Super Monkey Ball 3 might be made public in May at E3. We shall hear from Spook.

~Squeek

[jewpinthethird]

Lucky for you, a Super Monkey Ball DX is coming out for PS2. Retrieve it at all costs.

Lucky for us, a Super Monkey Ball 3 might be made public in May at E3. We shall hear from Spook.

~Squeek

I'll borrow my friend's Gamecube and his copy of SMB2. I've only played the cell phone version (ha), but it was really fun...so meh, I'll give it a try.