Paper i have to write. "not trying to be a trend whore"

[-Izzy-]

Buit seriously, i dont want this to turn in another religous arguement but my parents expect me to write some 750 paper on what i believe i am being confirmed into for the jewish faith. I told them that i wouldnt write a paper for what they believe because just because your jewish doesnt mean i am. And now they are pissed because im not going to write their paper. Why should i be forced into a religious confirmation I am so unwillingly being dragged into.

[Tasselfoot]

because they pay for your food, shelter, clothing, education, etc etc etc.

so until the day that you are willing to fully support yourself, you suck it up and do what they tell you to do.

and that pretty much ends the thread, because i'm right and nothing will change it nor can anything be said contrary to it.

[-Izzy-]

Whoa, gtfo. seriously, that is the biggest load of **** ive ever heard from someone trying to be intelligent. That was disgusting tasselfoot.

[Tasselfoot]

Izzy... are you kidding me? My reason is BY FAR the best justification you're going to get. It is also the most realistic justification.

You ask why you're being forced to do something religious that you don't want to do. And I'm telling you why. Because you parents pay for everything that you do and everything that you've done for your entire life. For the most part, until you move out and pay for yourself, they own you.

It does not surprise me that you are unwilling to accept that reality. Its ok... I didn't expect you to. That does not make it any less true. Especially concerning religion. People, for some odd reason, can be REALLY peculiar and close-minded when it comes to that subject. As such, they force it upon their offspring, and because they are so close-minded, you are completely unable to weasel your way out of a religious commitment that they feel you should make.

So... yea. Enjoy. Keep arguing with me if you want, but your time would be much better spent thinking about what I'm saying. You might just realize that I'm right. I've been where you are... almost 10 years ago, when it concerned my Bar Mitzvah, and then again about 7 years ago when I was STILL going to Hebrew School and received my Confirmation.

[-Izzy-]

I dont care if they even beat me they cant change what i think. Just the fact that you so blindly accept a forced religion makes me relize why christianity is still around. They seriously drill this **** into your head. Thanks alot for turning this into another religous arguement. Damn worst moderator ever. And afer all those fake morons babling about their religious freedoms.

[GuidoHunter]

What? Izzy, he didn't mention anything religious. Tass knows exactly what you're going through and he provided an answer to your question.

Your question was why you're being forced to do this and he said because your parents own you. That's it. That's life as a teenager. Suck it up and listen to him because that's the way it is.

Once you're on your own, you can believe whatever you want as freely as you want, but until then, your parents dictate what you do around them. And now, it's get confirmed or write a paper.

This is not a religious discussion.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[-Izzy-]

Its get confirmed and write a paper. You guys seriously disgust me for thinking i cant believe what i want after saying that we can believe what we want.
Seriously the worst statment you could have made ever. Pathetic guys.

[Tasselfoot]

Izzy... please shut up and use that thing on your shoulders for 1 second. At no time did I turn this to be about religion.

For the record, I am jewish by birth. At some point in High School, I decided that I didn't really like beliving in god, because I didn't believe that a god existed. So I stopped. But my mother would never accept that.... it would make her VERY mad to learn this, because she wants me to believe what she believe and what she taught me to believe.

So what do I do? I try and get out of going to Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur services when I can, try and avoid Passover seder, etc etc... not always possible. And when I can't avoid it, I suck it up and attend these functions, because it makes my mother happy. I am able to get away with so little now because I don't live with my parents any more. At your age, you are forced to suffer through religion alot more. It sucks, but it is something you just have to suck up and deal with.

My whole point to you is basically that... you do not accept the religion of your parents. Fine. I completely understand that. But your entire point of the thread was:

Originally Posted by Izzy

Why should i be forced into a religious confirmation I am so unwillingly being dragged into.

And that is what I answered. You should be forced into a religious confirmation that you don't want to be apart of because your parents control your life, no matter if you think that is true or not. And that has nothing to do with religion whatsoever.

If you say one more thing about how I'm a bad moderator or how I'm making this about religion... not only will I lock this thread, but I will ban you because you are a complete moron and I've wasted about 20 minutes trying to be really helpful to you.

[GuidoHunter]

You can BELIEVE whatever you want. It's actually not possible for someone to change that. What you DO is not always something you can control.

This thread is about DOING things. You're being forced to get confirmed. That's DOING something. Your parents can force you to DO that just because you're their son. What you BELIEVE has nothing to do with this whatsoever. That is, you will be forced to DO what they want REGARDLESS of what you BELIEVE. Get that? Their desires for you are irrespective of your beliefs.

Again, your BELIEFS are worth nothing to your parents, which is why they're forcing you to DO what they want, i.e. get confirmed and write a paper.

You can BELIEVE whatever you want and it wouldn't change a thing.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[-Izzy-]

Yea, im just outright disgusted that anyone could possibly think like you do. Helping me my ass. You by far have some of the worst outlooks on life i have ever seen. I am in disbeleif how you can be so ignorant. Just wow. You failed so bad. I bet if i posted that the sky was blue you would find it neccisary to post otherwize just because i said it was blue even though you know its true.

edit: not even my parents are that evil. Damn you guys have really ****ty parents then.

[GuidoHunter]

Helping you? Well, getting you to do what your parents say just because they're your parents is going to make everyone's life a lot easier.

Nobody's given their outlook on life. Where are you getting this?

Ignorant about what? Tass and I both know what it's like being your age and in your position. If anyone's ignorant, it's you because you don't have answers like these in your experience. There's nothing wrong with that; some things just come with age.

EDIT: You've said nothing that is either true or false, so on what have we disagreed with you? You asked a question, Tass answered it. There is no disagreement here. You may not like why it happens, but that doesn't mean that what we say is wrong.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[Tasselfoot]

Izzy... it is not a matter of us thinking this way. What we are saying is reality. Not some happy happy fantasy world where Izzy gets everything he wants.

Doing something because it will make your parents happy is "the worst outlook on life"? I think it is called being not selfish.

We are far from ignorant. In fact, I will be so bold as to say that YOU are being ignorant in your close-mindedness of ignoring what we're telling you. What Guido and I are realistic. We are both 21+. We both have lived a few moons more than you have... and MAYBE.... just MAYBE... we have an inkling more knowledge than you do and are trying to impart that knowledge upon you.

So, yea... it sucks for you that we aren't telling you what you want to hear. Get used to it. More often than not in life, you won't get what you want. And while that may be a ****ty outlook... its the truth. The world is not a kind place and most of the time, crappy stuff happens.

[-Izzy-]

Dude your only 21 and you obviously still dont know ****. I dont know what kind of ****ty childhood you had but it sure sounds like a peice of crap. When i posted this i knew nobody here could possibly disagree after getting so angry over those other thread. I was wrong. You contradicted your own arguements so bad that its just sad.

edit: Yea but maybe. JUST MJAYBE! you can do something about instead of taking like a ****ing slave.

[Tasselfoot]

Originally Posted by Izzy

You contradicted your own arguements so bad that its just sad.

I didn't post once in that thread... so how can I be contradicting anything? Then again, I'd have been telling you the same thing everyone else was... which makes me wonder how Guido is contradicting himself.

Would you be so kind as to post a quote of Guido's from the other thread so that I understand what you mean when you say he is contradicting himself? Thanks.

[GuidoHunter]

First: Tell me what my argument in the other thread was.
Second: Tell me how it contradicts this one.

Do that and I'll gladly, uh, I don't know, apologize? Something like that.

Now, tell me why I don't know ****. I've got, what, five or six years on you. That's five or six years of knowledge that you haven't gotten. I'm not saying that I'm more intelligent than you or anything, just that I have 'wisdom' that comes with age. I know I didn't get that idea when I was sixteen, and I thought I had the world all figured out, so I don't expect you to completely agree, but that's how it is, and how you'll see it in several years. Now I realize just how dumb I was.

My emotion in the other thread was due to your debate style. You never clarify your points. So, I'm giving you a chance to redeem yourself. Please, tell me the things that I gave above and this discussion can take a rational turn. That's ALL I'm asking here.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[-Izzy-]

Ive already said it in this thread but ok.

You guys always told me you didnt care and that you will believe whatever you wanted. "this might actually be from that thread awhile back" so that whole thread turned into people going. "im atheist but i still think people should be able to believe what they want to" And of couse everyone from then on agreed with eachother cause that all you guys ever do. And now you say i have no religious freedom and that i should just let myself be forced into a religious confirmation that id rather not do because im not jewish.

[GuidoHunter]

Nonononono, you misunderstand. You can believe whatever you want. You have the freedom to believe what you believe. Here, I'll even quote myself from this thread. It's from the first line of one of my replies:

Originally Posted by GuidoHunter

You can BELIEVE whatever you want. It's actually not possible for someone to change that.

What you DON'T have is the freedom to DO whatever you want, and that's because you're your parents' subject. You must DO what they want, even if you don't BELIEVE in what you're doing.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[-Izzy-]

Examples of people:

http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...ad.php?t=40350

Oh this guy.

Grandiagod
Damn, I'm athiest myself but here I go playing the devils advocate. First of all having an opposite opinion does not make a person close minded if they are willing to listen and respond with reason

Shashakiro
I'm personally an atheist. However, that doesn't mean that I think all followers of other religions are stupid and brainwashed...anyone can believe want they want, and if it makes them happy, that's fine.

irrationalkillin
I am an athiest becuase I agree that people should find their own truth but that does not mean that I take every available opportunity to insult those who are not exactly the same as me. Find a way to accept others. You are no better than anyone else. I guarantee that

stretchypanda
I have plenty of friends who do not follow the Christian religion, and I don't go out of my way to force my religion on them. I'm not going out of my way to force my religion on you. I only got into this because you made an ignorant statement about a denomination about which you clearly know nothing.

[GuidoHunter]

Yes, those are examples of people. So what are you trying to say with that post, other than showing me what people are?

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[Benny1]

I get exactly both sides are trying to say, and seriously tasslefoot, the this is the best answer you will get, and it's not worth debating was over the top.

Izzy, I'm not sure abotu the essay, thats overboard, but I go to church, I went to Sunday School, I'm getting Confirmed over the summer this year, and you know what, I really don't believe in any of this. I honestly don't mind it too much. Writing a paper is a bit much though.