TWG rules violation

[talisman]

Someone pointed out to me something interesting I'd forgotten in the TWG rules.

7. Imitating another player (dead or alive) through a fake AIM/FFR nickname is cheating and is subject to the cheating penalties.

which leads us to number 5 (on cheating penalties)

5. Cheating of any kind (through abuse of the rules stated here, or anything that is determined cheating by a majority of the players) will result in that players immediate death (not counting as that days lynch), and they will be subject to a banning of length to be determined by TWC.

On the one hand, I think the perpetrator should go to flypie and have themselves removed (consistent with the rules). On the other hand this would probably dramatically change the play of the game (but then again, so does cheating in the first place). I'm sure the perpetrator was unaware of the rule, and this should be taken into account for the banning period.

So, I'm opening this up to public discussion. How should this be enforced?

[mattc16]

Originally Posted by talisman

I'm sure the perpetrator was unaware of the rule, and this should be taken into account for the banning period.

I don't agree with this bit. Simply because they should have read through the rules before signing up for any TWG, jTWG or other. I know I did when I first joined the usergroup.

[Tasselfoot]

Heh... its funny, cause I don't even remember the rules that I myself wrote.

But, glad someone remembered that.... BAN THEM! Shouldn't exactly be much of a decision for TWC.


EDIT: Just really sucks for whoever did it... cause they probably are like most of us and don't remember every rule. AND... the PM really didn't help at all, AFAIK.

[Kilgamayan]

Ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law.

[talisman]

Is TWC going to uphold the immediate death enforcement? That's the only real issue here. I vote for it, but that's just because it's in the rules and that's just how it is. But I can see how it might cheapen the game somewhat.

[Tasselfoot]

Blah, Kilga, and I have talked.... While they could potentially be responsible or know who is, I know I'm clueless. Anyway, the 3 of us have decided a 1 game ban for twg25, and removal this game is in the hands of Flypie, as she knows all the roles, likely talked to the PMer, and can make a more unbiased decision.

[Afrobean]

Wow... I forgot about the immediate death thing. I pointed that out to eb before, but I neglected to notice the immediate death thing.

Only reason I didn't mention it in game was because I figured that if no one said anything about it being a serious infraction then they'd admit to it post game, but now they probably won't. Their wolf buddied might turn them in, but I doubt they'd own up themselves given how hard it would be to prove who did it.

EDIT: I think the ban should be much more than that. They should have read the rules before. It is clearly drawn out that it's against the rules to do this. Not only that, but they faked an AIM account too.

[talisman]

To be fair, I don't know if stressreIefbaII exists.

[Afrobean]

Originally Posted by talisman

To be fair, I don't know if stressreIiefbaII exists.

There is no reason to add that part to the profile if that AIM account does not exist. And if they were going for complete perfect copy, they'd have added your AIM name to the profile, not a different AIM name.

[JurseyRider734]

I'm interested in finding out who did it.

[Nija]

i know that i'm a mega newb here... still in my first game... but it is an interesting strategy.. just curious as to why it is against the rules to begin with.

A smart twger would check this kind of thing before they send out anything important anyway.

My two cents, flame away.

[Afrobean]

They did check it. The thing about it is though, that no important sensitive info would be given, because the person who recieved the PM would just be like "hay talisman i r seer'd huh?" and talisman would go "uh no."

And it's against the rules because it's immoral and unfair.

[Tasselfoot]

It originally game up around twg5, around the same time that all the fake PM business came about. Chardish still had his Sindacollion AIM name, and he got wolfed. I suggested that it would be a good idea to make a fake AIM name that the same, only with an i instead of an L. Maybe I could get info out of players in the game that way.

Chardish and I agreed after that game, along with all the fake PM business, that this was a no-no, along with posting SSs. There needs to be some level of trust and faith between us... and getting an IM or PM from someone needs to be one, and the fake SS thing is because its not that hard to fake a SS, but not everyone has access to do it, and its also much harder to detect than to do.

Hope that explains why.

[Nija]

thank you much for clearing that up. And you're talking PM screenshots only right? I mean... i used one to confirm an aim chat history because trillian doesn't same timestamps the same way in the logs as aim does. I mean... according to the rules that i'm reading it looks like you're just talking about PMs, but what you just said sounds like every screen shot in general >.< sorry... confused

[Afrobean]

An idea I had a while back that should probably be included in the same rule: It should be against the rules to pose on AIM or through PM as a TWG forum lurker or a jTWG player or anyone else to attempt to get information out of players.

In fact, contacting players using unknown aliases (aka anonymous PMing) for the purposes of extracting or giving out info should really be against the rules as well.

[Tasselfoot]

Mystery PMs are here to stay, I believe... we haven't had any problems from them in the past. They usually hurt whoever sends them anyway.

Nija... ANY SS is not allowed. You can't post or use any SS to "prove" that you are right, for the reasons mentioned above. Like the time Chardish tried to use a fake SS of a conversation with TPS... when they were both wolves and he was trying to screw over TPS.

Most times, when trying to do something sneaky... you only hurt yourself.

[GuidoHunter]

Originally Posted by Nija

thank you much for clearing that up. And you're talking PM screenshots only right? I mean... i used one to confirm an aim chat history because trillian doesn't same timestamps the same way in the logs as aim does. I mean... according to the rules that i'm reading it looks like you're just talking about PMs, but what you just said sounds like every screen shot in general >.< sorry... confused

Discussing PMs from the host is 100% illegal. Sending it to people, screencapping it and showing it, ANYthing having to do with a host's PM to you is illegal.

That said, everything else is legal. Cap any PM another player sent to you, cap any AIM convo/log, hell, you can even fake all those.

Just nothing having to do with host PMs.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[Tasselfoot]

No Guido.... you can fake anything you want, except host PMs... but you can't show SSs of ANYTHING. Only texts.

[Nija]

3. Players are not allowed to reveal their PMs to anyone else, show screenshots of their PMs to anyone, nor use information within their PMs as a method of confirming humanity. Players are not allowed to reveal conversations relating to the game with the game's host to any other player. Players may not post screenshots of conversations they have with other players.

Technically... I posted a shot of my Trillian history window, not necessarily conversation. Does anyone know how to copy+paste timestamps along with your chat history as text in trillian pro 3.0? would save me from having to do this again to get timestamps...

Nija

[Tasselfoot]

my trillian works fine, saves everything as text files. Either way... no SSs.