Southeast/Southwest United States problems, illegal immigrants.

[Naruto777_Ninga]

Lately in the news, from southeast to southwestern states, there has been a problem with illegal immigrants from Mexico. Me being only 13, i could not say this topic affects me, but for the people who are looking for a job, or have a job. As we all know, the border patrol sometimes misses an illegal immigrant trying to get into United States, from two stand points:

1.If you are an illegal immigrant from anywhere, trying to get in to the United States, it makes your country sound and look bad. When you get into the U.S. ,first thing your are going to do is find a home for yourself, and to pay for that and anything else, you are going to need a job. In most cases, illegal immigrants go for any job available. When a business owner see that, he/she
see opportunity's to hire a person for a low paying job. A conflict with that is a person looking for a job, that is a registered American, would get a higher amount for working in that
business because, they would need the money. I'm not saying that an illegal immigrant would
not need that money as well, but they will do it for a lower cost, giving them a higher chance to stay in that business, and to get them a higher chance at being hired. Another thing i see as A conflict is when more-and-more illegal immigrants try and get in, the more people there is using products, the more U.S. will have to import, and in a chain reaction is Higher interest rates from food to gas/oil based products. I am very sure there is other problems involved, but let me move to my next section.

2. I don't think you should have to be an illegal immigrant, you can win a sweepstakes to live in North America, or sign up and be registered as an American, but some countries do not allow this to happen. This is a major factor of immigration. A hope for a better life is another reason. Maybe you don't agree with the political arguments between governments that end up as a hostile land to live in, because of war and terrorism. Another is Religious arguments that ends up as arguments between governments and ending up as more war. One other things is living standards of countries. Some cant afford necessities for their own country and the people begin to suffer cause of it. War is still a big thing in either way, cause it can affect a country severely.

I still have mixed emotions on this topic, please feel free to quote me as well. I can understand why some people become immigrants too. But it could cause more conflict
which i do not like. Remember, I'm only a Teen with some things to think.

I do not want to start a fight with anyone, so don't start one with me. I wrote this out of my freedom of speech, and did not mean to offend any user of flashflashrevolution.Thank you for reading.

[Relambrien]

I'm having trouble comprehending that post. So basically what you're saying is this:

Originally Posted by My interpretation of OP

There's been a problem recently in the Southeastern and Southwestern states involving immigrants illegally crossing the border in order to come into America. Being only 13, it really doesn't affect me, but does affect adults looking for jobs in the region. The border patrol does occasionally miss illegal immigrants entering the country.

Entering the US illegally tarnishes the name of your country. When you enter the US, the first thing you will do is look for a job, and business owners recognize that because of that, you will work for a much lower wage than a registered American citizen. Thus, you are more likely to be hired than the American. Also, as more illegals enter the country, demand for all products will increase, resulting in higher prices across the board.

I think becoming an American citizen should be easier, either by offering sweepstakes or by offering a citizen sign-up process, although some countries would not allow this. This, along with the hope for a better life, is a reason for illegal immigration. Some are trying to escape governmental or religious turmoil within their country.

I'm going to assume that's more or less what you mean, and respond based on that interpretation.

Okay, so first, the illegal immigration problem has been going on for quite a while. Decades, actually. People are still arguing over what to do about it, and here's the general rundown of the argument.

One side of the argument takes on the "crackdown" approach. They believe that illegal immigrants should be deported, because they've broken the law in attempting to enter America. They need to go back and do it the right way. Some justifications for this include the following.

First, illegal immigrants do not pay taxes. They are not on record as existing within the country, therefore they use the resources the country produces without paying taxes. Second, because they are not citizens, they are not subject to minimum wage. They can be hired for pay far below minimum wage, and because of this, they shut many legal citizens out of a job. Finally, there's the "literal" reason: they broke the law, so they must be punished for breaking it.

Solutions to the problem offered by this side generally include a crackdown on illegal immigrants, increase of border security to prevent illegal immigration, and even a wall separating us from Mexico.

The people on this side of the argument are generally Republicans, but that isn't to say all Republicans are, or that no Democrats are.

The other side is the "forgiveness" side. These people believe that since the illegal immigrants are coming to America for a better life, the spirit of America dictates that we should take them in. The people on this side believe that taking in all those who come, legally or otherwise, falls in line with the original ideals of the American founders, and thus should be done. Some justifications given on this side include the following.

First, since these immigrants are looking for a better life, and America was founded on the principles of giving a better, free life to all within its borders, it's our duty as Americans to take them in. They've worked hard to reach the country safely, so they will obviously follow the law and pay taxes and such. Second, if we deport these people, they face extreme persecution and possibly worse in their home country. Sending them home would be sending them to their deaths. There are other arguments, but I can't seem to remember them at this time.

Solutions offered by this side generally include amnesty for the illegals, as well as government aid, and a way to attempt to make legal immigration easier.

This group generally consists of Democrats, but like with the other group, by no means does the group consist entirely of Democrats, nor is every Democrat part of this group.

Personally, I'm more on the "crackdown" side than the "forgiveness" side. These people broke the law to enter the country, so why should we treat them better than any other criminal? If they wanted to enter the country so bad, then they should have done it the legal way. Get a visa, apply for citizenship in America, meet the requirements, legal citizen.

Granted, it's sometimes impossible or otherwise exceedingly difficult to be able to apply for citizenship, due to social status or other pressure. For this reason, the citizenship and visa application processes need to be made more simple. It's obvious that Mexico is the largest supplier of illegal immigrants to America, and I'm sure they know that, too. I'll find a source for this if you like, but if you can just trust me then it's unnecessary.

Anyway, perhaps some deal should be struck with Mexico to help the country make the citizenship process easier. For instance, have it help organize all those interested in a visa or citizenship application and join with the US to help teach the requirements for citizenship, explore possible assistance or alternatives (which would be less painful and complex than attempting to become a US citizen), and the like.

Oh, and I support the dividing wall, too.

[SaladForks]

I agree 100% with making citizenship easier.

To break it down for those lazy readers:

Originally Posted by Relambrien

they use the resources the country produces without paying taxes. Second, because they are not citizens, they are not subject to minimum wage

Possible reasons.

Originally Posted by Naruto777_Ninga

the more people there is using products, the more U.S. will have to import, and in a chain reaction is Higher interest rates from food to gas/oil based products

Possible outcomes.

Only plausible solution to get rid of these 'leeches', if you will, better than forcing them into hiding by threatening to weed them out, would be to make becoming a citizen easier.

My buck fitty.

[devonin]

The problem with difficulty of immigration isn't that the process is too complicated, or difficult for these random people to use, it is that the vast vast majority of them are simply rejected when they apply.

A country like the US has no interest in allowing largely uneducated, ililterate subsistance farmers into the country. You have to prove that you possess skills and knowledge that will allow you to make a solid and useful contribution to American society. You, in many cases, have to prove that you already have a skilled job lined up and ready to go.

The real reason there is such rampant illegal immigration into the United States is that they simply won't be accepted into the country any other way.

[Relambrien]

Originally Posted by devonin

The problem with difficulty of immigration isn't that the process is too complicated, or difficult for these random people to use, it is that the vast vast majority of them are simply rejected when they apply.

A country like the US has no interest in allowing largely uneducated, ililterate subsistance farmers into the country. You have to prove that you possess skills and knowledge that will allow you to make a solid and useful contribution to American society. You, in many cases, have to prove that you already have a skilled job lined up and ready to go.

The real reason there is such rampant illegal immigration into the United States is that they simply won't be accepted into the country any other way.

You seem to misunderstand what I meant by making the immigration process easier. Yes, most applicants for citizenship are rejected, because they don't have the knowledge or skills required to be useful to society. What I am suggesting is a way for both the United States and Mexico to create a "joint venture," and essentially create a school or schools for interested applicants. This is where they would be taught skills they need, become literate, apply for a job in the US, etc.

Of course, such a system wouldn't be free of its own problems. If the school costs money to go to, most probably wouldn't be able to afford it. If it's free, it would be overcrowded. Also, it raises the question, "If they couldn't go to school before, why could they now?"

[devonin]

"the skills they need" generally include a skilled profession. Is this joint school going to actually function as an elementary, secondary -and- post-secondary institution? That's the kind of "skills" they are looking for.

[Go_Oilers_Go]

Canada gets illegal immigrants from the States. We just learn how to keep our problems quiet.

[Relambrien]

Originally Posted by devonin

"the skills they need" generally include a skilled profession. Is this joint school going to actually function as an elementary, secondary -and- post-secondary institution? That's the kind of "skills" they are looking for.

Actually, America has several schools like this for our own citizens. It's sort of a specialty school; you choose the profession you want to study and then only study things relevant to that profession. For instance, if you were studying to be a computer technician, you wouldn't learn much beyond learning how to fix computers. These are generally schools designed for high school dropouts who want to be able to get a better job. I -believe- one such school is called PCDI, so you could look that up.

I'm thinking this school could be something like that. You have a basic class everyone attends that teaches basic English, literacy, and basic math, then after that you choose from a list of needed professions in America and study that profession from then on. Obviously it wouldn't be anything too extravagant or prestigious, since such a basic education wouldn't be fit for most jobs like that. Then, after studying that profession for whatever amount of time, you go back and learn the formalities of citizenship: US government, basic history, etc. This is for the citizenship test given to applicants.

I'm not saying this process won't take a while. It would probably take a few years for each person (I'll elaborate below). And there may be better processes people could think of. But, I do believe this would at least have some effect on the difficulty of becoming a citizen.

Anyway, here's how long I think it would probably take, once the school actually started teaching.

For learning basic math, English, and literacy, it would probably be about a year part-time, maybe 18 months. The majority of that would be English and literacy, since math would probably only have to go as far as algebraic operations with 3-digit numbers. Algebraic operations are addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division by the way.
For the specialized profession, it would probably be about another year or two to learn the ins and outs, but that varies between professions. If more math is required for the specific profession, it would be taught at this time.
For the citizenship requirements, maybe 6 months at most, but I even feel right now that that's a gross overestimate. Perhaps two or three months is more accurate, since it's just the basic tenets of the legal system and history after all.

Now remember, even though these numbers are probably faster than what you learned in school, there's also a lot more time devoted to one specific class here. In elementary school, you probably had 40 or 50 minutes per class, but with this, it'll be more like a couple of hours just for one thing.

EDIT: Had another idea. Have American businesses help with this process by saying, "We're looking for x profession. If you can teach these aspiring citizens that profession, we'll take them. We might even supply teachers for you." Helps the businesses in their search for employees, makes them look good to the public, and helps provide guaranteed jobs to those who can finish the school.

[devonin]

Businesses have no real shortage of Americans eager to work in the skilled jobs, and are generally quite happy to hire under-the-table illegals for dirt cheap for the unskilled jobs. What is the motivation for them to want to support this initiative?

"Supply us teachers at your expense, to teach people to do a job you already have workers doing, whereupon you'll have to pay them more"....

[Relambrien]

Originally Posted by devonin

Businesses have no real shortage of Americans eager to work in the skilled jobs, and are generally quite happy to hire under-the-table illegals for dirt cheap for the unskilled jobs. What is the motivation for them to want to support this initiative?

"Supply us teachers at your expense, to teach people to do a job you already have workers doing, whereupon you'll have to pay them more"....

Marketing. Supporting this program that lets those willing to become hardworking Americans as opposed to entering the country illegally is a big selling point. The company can say, "We're helping out those who really want to become Americans, and are working as hard as they can to do so." I would imagine this would cause a lot of people who support the program to buy the company's products, since by buying the products they are indirectly supporting the program.

Also, they wouldn't have to pay the new immigrants any higher wages than they would a current American citizen. In fact, they could pay the immigrant minimum wage and he would probably be happy, since if he wants to come to America for a better life, he probably isn't making that much anyway.

It would also decrease costs related to finding employees, since by supporting the program they have people ready to go as soon as they finish their education.