request: EXTREMELY EASY songs batch (difficulty 1 songs and lower)

[SputnikOwns]

Re: request: EXTREMELY EASY songs batch (difficulty 1 songs and lower)

There's also the issue that there are not very many songs to choose from in the level one and two category. Of course as you get better, the amount of songs you are able to play increases dramatically, but I feel it would be a great idea to have more of these low level songs so newer players have more variety.

My eight year old nephew came to visit me and I showed him FFR, and he mentioned to me, "These songs are weird, are there any rap songs?" regarding the three level 1's he played. I told him they are much higher level and he was a bit disappointed.

The amount of effort it would take to add just a few more songs in this region is so small I can't think of any arguments against it.

[devonin]

Re: request: EXTREMELY EASY songs batch (difficulty 1 songs and lower)

The amount of effort it would take to add just a few more songs in this region is so small I can't think of any arguments against it.

It's not about the effort, especially if you just wanted the stepper to just hit every 8th beat of the song with a random quarter note, like many of the low level songs currently are.

It's partly about not wanting to "waste" an mp3 we have permission for on a song that almost nobody will play, and maybe a certain element of professional pride in work that makes people not want to make something incredibly simple and boring by the standards of 99% of the active playerbase.

The actual number of people who would self-describe as "Playing FFR" or being "an FFR player" for whom a level 1 song is at all interesting is probably in all seriousness, 5-10 people total.

Combine that with the time investment in putting songs through the batch/judge process before they finally get released, and the limit on the number of songs somebody is allowed to submit to an open batch, and you get multiple disincentives to make extremely easy charts.

I see you in here Kayla, if you want a bunch of super easy songs put in, just let me know and I can step like, 10-20 this week and we can just shove them into the game :P

[s1rnight]

Re: request: EXTREMELY EASY songs batch (difficulty 1 songs and lower)

i am glad that the idea is being received warmly, i was a little worried hehe... i get that it isn't something that means very much "once you've escaped the creche" so to speak, of which every poster in this thread has likely long since done (if they're playing regularly), but even players in humble d2 are better than "half the site"... even when people haven't played on the site for very long, "getting to know the website" when you just start out is very important. it would be nice if the website were as enjoyable for people just starting out, or who don't intend to play very often... (or who haven't played in years hehe)

[psychoangel691]

Re: request: EXTREMELY EASY songs batch (difficulty 1 songs and lower)

I mean everyone wants to say "yeah why not" but I don't see any of you submitting these files to the batch. You wanna see them then pop some easy files into the batch that's open right now. I don't mean it to sound rude, it's just why make or post in this thread but not contribute to helping the cause?

Honestly a few more sure, but I don't really think there needs to be a ton more because generally with just a bit of practice you start to move up pretty quickly in the difficulties here. But that's my take on it.

[Rapta]

Re: request: EXTREMELY EASY songs batch (difficulty 1 songs and lower)

I mean everyone wants to say "yeah why not" but I don't see any of you submitting these files to the batch. You wanna see them then pop some easy files into the batch that's open right now. I don't mean it to sound rude, it's just why make or post in this thread but not contribute to helping the cause?

Honestly a few more sure, but I don't really think there needs to be a ton more because generally with just a bit of practice you start to move up pretty quickly in the difficulties here. But that's my take on it.

I surely will for the next batch. I have already submitted two of my best files hoping to get one accepted and then have the ability to submit even more~

[s1rnight]

Re: request: EXTREMELY EASY songs batch (difficulty 1 songs and lower)

@psychoangel691 i'll submit a bunch right now!!! (laughs) i actually always wanted to... i understand devonin's idea of not "wasting a song". i noticed there are "versions" of files that make them easier or harder on the site. itd be nice if there were BABY versions of the files that had "vBABY" at the end (laughs again)... you're right about action being more important, i kinda just made the thread to see what people's thoughts were... if we're all settled on it being a good idea we should act right away!!!

looking at other rhythm games as a model, it seems even pump it up (which doesn't have a guaranteed 'beginner' mode like ddr) has a lot of difficulty 1 or 2 charts... a lot of these are probably so people can do COOL DANCING on them, and isn't a part of the "hardcore" thing, in many ways it'd be nice to bring a similar ethos here. though, it certainly doesn't need to be anything more than "a niche, if people want it". they can also be charts for entirely new, "calm" songs, if there is an issue with charts feeling like a "reverse-dump" file

i sympathise with rapta's anecdote about his nephew greatly... admittedly i wanted to play some of the charts that people made of my songs but they are way too difficult hahaha... this is my fault because i use way too many notes in my songs, though. if i made a very simple song i'd like to play it some day

[psychoangel691]

Re: request: EXTREMELY EASY songs batch (difficulty 1 songs and lower)

You gotta figure, this is basically a hobby site at this point and with no one being paid to make content they're going to gravitate towards stepping genres and in the difficulty/style they like. I'll try to put together a few to pop into this batch too since I've been off the stepping train anyway.

[M0nkeyz]

Re: request: EXTREMELY EASY songs batch (difficulty 1 songs and lower)

Can attempt to make a few songs in the level 1 range, but I simply don't really know how to. Do you just step the occasional 8th? Should the file only be like 40 seconds? Is PR and consistency important when you are dealing with so little notes? etc etc.

[devonin]

Re: request: EXTREMELY EASY songs batch (difficulty 1 songs and lower)

I definitely think the main goal for extremely low difficulty songs should be "short"

The legacy songs that are multiple minutes long are boring even for players that new. Level 1-3 songs are for building basic competence with how rhythm games work, and you shouldn't need to do that very long to move past needing songs that easy.

I'm going to step a couple 1-3s today/this weekend and I'm not planning on having them much longer than 1 minute if I can at all help it.

[hi19hi19]

Re: request: EXTREMELY EASY songs batch (difficulty 1 songs and lower)

I've made dozens of files in the less-than-Power to 10 range.

The problem is the submission cap. I have five slots every two months (when I remember to submit at all) and it feels kind of bad using one of those on a file that took 20 minutes of work compared to something I put 5 hours into.

[psychoangel691]

Re: request: EXTREMELY EASY songs batch (difficulty 1 songs and lower)

Can attempt to make a few songs in the level 1 range, but I simply don't really know how to. Do you just step the occasional 8th? Should the file only be like 40 seconds? Is PR and consistency important when you are dealing with so little notes? etc etc.

I'd probably say they generally should be a 1:30 or less in length because when you're stepping so little in the song it can be very boring and drag on.

Consistency is even more important if you're targeting band new players it's going to be way more confusing if it's constantly changing up.

As per PR, it's always something we like to see in a file and generally feels "right" but I mean if you're stepping bass hits it's kinda different than if you're stepping some piano sounds.

[devonin]

Re: request: EXTREMELY EASY songs batch (difficulty 1 songs and lower)

I've made dozens of files in the less-than-Power to 10 range.

The problem is the submission cap. I have five slots every two months (when I remember to submit at all) and it feels kind of bad using one of those on a file that took 20 minutes of work compared to something I put 5 hours into.

Don't worry cornman, I'll burn submissions on easy songs, since I can't really make anything good over a 40 anyway!

[hi19hi19]

Re: request: EXTREMELY EASY songs batch (difficulty 1 songs and lower)

Also I want to point out that I've submitted an extremely easy file in the past, one that I thought was rather well-constructed, and only one judge gave it a passing rating:


The National Anthem of Japan (hi19hi19) - [?] 3/10
- I really don't know about accepting charts that have a very low NPS, this one weighing in at approximately .67.
- It just really becomes questionable at this point to what novice players will enjoy, I certainly don't believe they should be limited to just slow music and 4th notes.


The National Anthem of Japan
5/10
- Any file with a lower TPS than Power is pushing it. If you want users to listen to a relaxing song, just let them listen to it -- don't have all that empty space.
- The file was easy to follow.


The National Anthem of Japan
pros:
- It's pretty good technically, I guess! There wasn't much difficulty involved in stepping this chart, though.
cons:
- Feels like we're waiting for something that never happens in the song...
note: 6.5/10


The National Athem of Japan (hi19hi19)
7/10
- looks fine as an easy file




So after getting these responses I basically gave up on submitting <1 NPS files, even though I think the game needs them. I think that "too low NPS" only becomes a valid criticism when there are long stretches of zero arrows on the screen at default size and 1x scroll rate. Until then, having files where there is only ever a single note you have to think about is what many beginner players require.
Unless more judges are exposed to the reality that files like Free Space are still too hard for some new players, I think you can just expect comments like these.

[TC_Halogen]

Re: request: EXTREMELY EASY songs batch (difficulty 1 songs and lower)

It's partly about not wanting to "waste" an mp3 we have permission for on a song that almost nobody will play, and maybe a certain element of professional pride in work that makes people not want to make something incredibly simple and boring by the standards of 99% of the active playerbase.

It goes without saying that this is also a mentality that should not only disappear, but is also toxic to the lower level players of the game (not saying you're an advocate of this or that you're the reason why I'm saying it, it just reminded me of it).

Players who are newer to the game deserve really good songs too. At any point, a stepartist can easily take their own approach to a chart and make an extremely toned down, easily accented version and make it a [Beginner] difficulty or something of the like.

As far as previous batches, the reason behind not getting things accepted likely coincides with the fact that anyone can really make a file like this with minimal effort and as a result, it's an easy way to get your submission cap from 2 to 5, which can then be lead to an inundation of low-quality files in the future (this is of course divorced from the fact that people submitting might also be R1 Simfile Author already, just a theory).

It might be necessary to institute a contingent requirement for achieving the R1 Simfile Author title beyond simply getting a file in game, because we cannot have users being left uncredited for their efforts.

EDIT: for clarification, i'm not saying it should take more than one file to get the title either - I'm saying that the file submitted might need to hit some sort of standard to be qualifying as worthy for the title.

[psychoangel691]

Re: request: EXTREMELY EASY songs batch (difficulty 1 songs and lower)

Also I want to point out that I've submitted an extremely easy file in the past, one that I thought was rather well-constructed, and only one judge gave it a passing rating:


The National Anthem of Japan (hi19hi19) - [?] 3/10
- I really don't know about accepting charts that have a very low NPS, this one weighing in at approximately .67.
- It just really becomes questionable at this point to what novice players will enjoy, I certainly don't believe they should be limited to just slow music and 4th notes.


The National Anthem of Japan
5/10
- Any file with a lower TPS than Power is pushing it. If you want users to listen to a relaxing song, just let them listen to it -- don't have all that empty space.
- The file was easy to follow.


The National Anthem of Japan
pros:
- It's pretty good technically, I guess! There wasn't much difficulty involved in stepping this chart, though.
cons:
- Feels like we're waiting for something that never happens in the song...
note: 6.5/10


The National Athem of Japan (hi19hi19)
7/10
- looks fine as an easy file




So after getting these responses I basically gave up on submitting <1 NPS files, even though I think the game needs them. I think that "too low NPS" only becomes a valid criticism when there are long stretches of zero arrows on the screen at default size and 1x scroll rate. Until then, having files where there is only ever a single note you have to think about is what many beginner players require.
Unless more judges are exposed to the reality that files like Free Space are still too hard for some new players, I think you can just expect comments like these.

This had to be a pretty long time ago though, we've not had a 4 judge system for quite a while and there used to be that crazy mindset about files in the past that I've pushed to do away with for years.