interesting punch force comparison

[Travis_Flesher]

Re: interesting punch force comparison

dat nature rune tho

[Dinglesberry]

Re: interesting punch force comparison

agggghhh its throwback thursday xd

[xXOpkillerXx]

Re: interesting punch force comparison

and I can tell you why

it is somewhat misleading to say that squats help you develop punch force because a lot of people will take this to mean that like, glutes and hamstrings will help you with punch force

the main things about a squat that help you are

1. hip muscles
2. quad muscles, specifically the quad muscles used in a quarter squat

hip muscles are enormously important in punch force. MMA fighters all have ridiculous obliques, if you haven't noticed.

quarter squat is a joke of an exercise for training purposes, BUT it is by far the best exercise to improve vertical jump height

http://www.stack.com/a/quarter-squats-are-your-secret-weapon-to-sprinting-faster-and-jumping-higher

rack pulls from the knee probably have a similar effect

so it makes sense that squat, but especially quarter squat would have this effect

I would also imagine the second half of a bench press (engaging more shoulders and serratus) would have a far higher correlation with punch force than the first half

I mean, yes ?

Are we agreeing here that bench press isn't much relevant to punch force IN COMPARISON to maaaany other exercises ? If not, could you please let me know what I might have misunderstood ?

[Arch0wl]

Re: interesting punch force comparison

no, bench press still has a huge correlation

[Arch0wl]

Re: interesting punch force comparison

The hard part is understanding the resistance and damage capacity of the cranial and facial structures.

I'm not sure about that, although you're welcome to elaborate because I'd like to hear what you have to say

[xXOpkillerXx]

Re: interesting punch force comparison

no, bench press still has a huge correlation

Huge compared to what ? Playing ffr ? Please elaborate.

[hkdk]

Re: interesting punch force comparison

I'd rather get punched by the guy at 1:34 instead of 1:05 in OP's video haha. Seems like any change in height during the punch greatly reduces the force read by the machine

[Travis_Flesher]

Re: interesting punch force comparison

arch0wl

You can curl a dumbbell all day and get strong arms, but there's no exercise to strengthen the defensive aspect. The skull bone will still be less than a centimeter thick. Would you walk across a 1cm thick bridge?

[Reach]

Re: interesting punch force comparison

Huge compared to what ? Playing ffr ? Please elaborate.

The average correlation between bench and punch force in that study is around .731, meaning that 53% of the variance in punch force can be accounted for by 1 RM Bench Press.

That is a very significant correlation in and of itself, you don't need to compare it to anything else to recognize that it is significant.

Though given that all of the correlations in that study are very large and in the same range, a simple interpretation is to assume a factor analysis would reveal a single underlying variable that accounts for the majority of the variance in all of those measurements. You could call that the general strength factor, which is just a statistical way of saying that if you take any reliable measurement of someones strength, it will be highly predictive of their punch force (and if those correlations are in any way accurate and reliable, strength would be the single largest predictive variable of punch force).

[SCWolf]

Re: interesting punch force comparison

I feel like questioning correlation between upper-body strength and the force it can produce is kind if unnecessary

This is fun to read though

[Arch0wl]

Re: interesting punch force comparison

I feel like questioning correlation between upper-body strength and the force it can produce is kind if unnecessary

yes and no

it's not necessary for people who have trained bench to any major degree. it becomes obvious past a certain point.

it's necessary for the general public who thinks bruce lee can defeat the mountain with his fingers or something

[xXOpkillerXx]

Re: interesting punch force comparison

The average correlation between bench and punch force in that study is around .731, meaning that 53% of the variance in punch force can be accounted for by 1 RM Bench Press.

That is a very significant correlation in and of itself, you don't need to compare it to anything else to recognize that it is significant.

Though given that all of the correlations in that study are very large and in the same range, a simple interpretation is to assume a factor analysis would reveal a single underlying variable that accounts for the majority of the variance in all of those measurements. You could call that the general strength factor, which is just a statistical way of saying that if you take any reliable measurement of someones strength, it will be highly predictive of their punch force (and if those correlations are in any way accurate and reliable, strength would be the single largest predictive variable of punch force).

Solely based on experience (15years of martial arts) I have only rarely seen someone big throw a stronger punch than someone relatively smaller (talking about body and muscle size here) with better technique. That being said, the studies linked in this thread are only about raw strength and doesn't show how much punch training the people have.

Now your point; you say there'd be a common factor to strength... Like what, their muscle fibers size ? You'd probably be right. But thing is, if A, B and C have a common factor F, and D needs all three to happen, then there's nothing special about neither A, B or C. (Say A is bench press 1RM, B is squats and C is abs strength, F is your factor (w/e it is) and D is output punch force for example).

You can say all you want about how bench press has strong correlation, cause it's true, but that's pretty intuitive and the fact that many other things/exercise have a correlation as strong or stronger than it makes it totally uninteresting.

[SpaceGorilla]

Re: interesting punch force comparison

i think it's simple enough to say that greater mass = greater force and higher strength is essentially your ability to move that mass at higher speeds
so it makes sense that someone who works out (bench increasing chest,shoulder mass + higher strength) would have a higher punch force

[Reach]

Re: interesting punch force comparison

Solely based on experience (15years of martial arts) I have only rarely seen someone big throw a stronger punch than someone relatively smaller (talking about body and muscle size here) with better technique. That being said, the studies linked in this thread are only about raw strength and doesn't show how much punch training the people have.

Now your point; you say there'd be a common factor to strength... Like what, their muscle fibers size ? You'd probably be right. But thing is, if A, B and C have a common factor F, and D needs all three to happen, then there's nothing special about neither A, B or C. (Say A is bench press 1RM, B is squats and C is abs strength, F is your factor (w/e it is) and D is output punch force for example).

You can say all you want about how bench press has strong correlation, cause it's true, but that's pretty intuitive and the fact that many other things/exercise have a correlation as strong or stronger than it makes it totally uninteresting.

Well, as a fellow martial artist, I would like to clarify the point I think you're trying to make; the difference between pure strength of the punch in terms of newtons of force vs how much the punch hurt. These studies only measure pure force, but technique can make two punches of the exact same force feel radically different, which is probably why the line gets quite blurry.

As for the common strength factor, it was just a guess I haven't done the factor analysis myself, but I would suspect that yes it's muscle fibre size. Given that measuring strength is an indirect measure of muscle fibre size and any given exercise will measure this to some extent, it would explain the data.

And I would argue it's actually a very interesting finding, even though it's obvious.

I would argue though that it's very interesting because of the size of the correlations. They're so significant that if the general factor between them is muscle fiber size (which I suspect it is), it would mean that if you wanted to improve athletic performance in any sport where force of impact is relevant, the single most important variable of the athlete you could improve would be muscle fiber size. Which is extraordinarily relevant in modern sports given the overwhelming amount of steroid abuse (or even...necessity?) happening among elite athletes. This is question at the core of many new sports e.g. crossfit, or MMA etc.

[xXOpkillerXx]

Re: interesting punch force comparison

Well, as a fellow martial artist, I would like to clarify the point I think you're trying to make; the difference between pure strength of the punch in terms of newtons of force vs how much the punch hurt. These studies only measure pure force, but technique can make two punches of the exact same force feel radically different, which is probably why the line gets quite blurry.

As for the common strength factor, it was just a guess I haven't done the factor analysis myself, but I would suspect that yes it's muscle fibre size. Given that measuring strength is an indirect measure of muscle fibre size and any given exercise will measure this to some extent, it would explain the data.

And I would argue it's actually a very interesting finding, even though it's obvious.

I would argue though that it's very interesting because of the size of the correlations. They're so significant that if the general factor between them is muscle fiber size (which I suspect it is), it would mean that if you wanted to improve athletic performance in any sport where force of impact is relevant, the single most important variable of the athlete you could improve would be muscle fiber size. Which is extraordinarily relevant in modern sports given the overwhelming amount of steroid abuse (or even...necessity?) happening among elite athletes. This is question at the core of many new sports e.g. crossfit, or MMA etc.

I can agree with this. Thx for taking the time to elaborate