TWG CLXVII Game Thread How Was Awakening Reviewed

[Soundwave-]

Re: TWG CLXVII Game Thread How Was Awakening Reviewed

Fucking what?
That literally makes no sense. No wolf would be like "Mathematically speaking, we should spare the lives of town and their adorable medic who will surely bring the wreckening upon us"

I was asked what I meant at the time I made that post. The numbers have been done, the scenarios have been considered. For wolves to have straight out no killed is not considerable at this point, especially if tiloco is blue.

That last part is the catch right, but when you throw in the fact that they bumped over a day it would be an absolutely stupid play.

[MixMasterLar]

Re: TWG CLXVII Game Thread How Was Awakening Reviewed

In order:

Yes. That is the worst case scenario. That is what has to be evaluated by the other prs before the claim. Not a bad worst case and a really good best case. Very worth a claim

Town should never, ever trade off an investigator role here especially if that player is well hidden (And if he exist, I'd say he is well hidden.)

No idea what you mean here. I don't have a save to claim so I'd be "lying out my ass" by claiming I angel'd someone last night like Cel was suggesting. Not only would that be bad because I'm lying, I would have to out my save because why wouldn't I if I saved someone and then whoever I decided to say I had a save on would be confirmed for nothing. It is terrible play and I don't understand how it ever became a discussion.

You're missing what I am saying.

Normally, when a blue outs they are going to be targeted that night. When your role is outted you pretty much have to go ahead and say who you claimed. That more or less clears that person for when you flip blue. Town doesn't lynch you or the person you claim and waits. Normally if you survive then you where lying and town lynches you now questions. If you die and flip, then not only did town have better chances of lynching a wolf the phase you claimed (They have X -2 players to pick and not just X amount of players) but they also know that whoever you saved is cleared assuming there wasn't a nightkill. This strat obviously works better with seers but as a general rule of thumb once you are out your days are numbered and you gotta get info out.

.....do you see my point on why your situation is fishy? You out but leave no info. You out so you won't be lynched but you wheren't in that much danger as far as I remember so that seems premature at best. You then start talking about roles but the details change whenever someone starts question them. Also you admit that you can't save yourself but you're alive.

Until someone hints at saving you it's safe to assume you where not targeted, which is bad wolfplay.

Not sure how I'm not supposed to find that weird. You did every play wrong from where I sit yet it's worked out really well for you.

Yes I'm intent on finding this other medic. I think it's a good idea for literally every role to claim today. We only need 5 towns and we have auto. That's not very hard with so many actions last night.

When it comes to believing OP and your opinion, I will chose OP; claiming is not a smart move.
In addition, mass claiming can't be trusted the phase people claim it. And what happens if wolves just claim anyway? You keep repeating there where 4 other actions but how do you plan to sort players if we get 6 claims? Looks to me like that'll just get messy.

Same as the last point. You seem to think that the claiming punishment is based on the role itself but I highly doubt it. First off Sunfan mentioned that claiming specifically character name is bad. Secondly every fun game in DM that has some sort of mechanic to punish claiming is always based on the flavor of the role not the role itself. I'd imagine that holds true in other forms of mafia because that is a way to punish that makes sense.

I don't know how much DM and FFR have in common

At the time I thought there was no possibility of mafia not killing because I thought it gave us an extra lynch.

I mean, that's correct.

Knowing that's not true

Wait what? Did I miss something?

it's a possibility that they no killed but one that I highly doubt. They would have to be ok with leaving me alive (the only way I'm ever dying at this point is if there's another claim I'm protecting btw) and be ok with there being an extra town around.

Which I still have doubts a wolf team would do.

And what the fuck do you think that means?

I don't know and that's why I'm concerned

Do you think that I'm mafia, planned to go into this day with no kills and then not claim credit for the save. Like I understand if you guys want to go into your paranoid worlds where you think that I'm doing meta things that mafia would never do so that I won't be read as mafia but eventually you need to wake up and see that I'm not a mafia that's trying real hard to game throw and that I'm actually just town. I've been trying to avoid saying shit like this because let's be honest it doesn't actually help for me to bring it up it's much better if other people do but I doubt it will happen so I'm just going to come out with it.

Let's go then

Let's make a list of all the things that make no sense for me to do as mafia this game:

- I try to build a wagon on Xel, my partner, for the last few hours of an eod that didn't really have a wagon. If that had taken off I really doubt Xel would have defended himself well and I would have killed my partner for no reason.

Talking about the first day you left? You wheren't around the last few hours.
If talking about the day we actually lynched Xel, then I guess fair enough but I don't recall you really making a strong case.

- I kill two of the three people that voted on me d0. I then kill the third person the next night.

Has happened before

- I claim on day 1 knowing that there is no chance that I am going to be able to live through the rest of the game with a claim that early. That puts my life on a timer when it didn't have to be.

You seem to be doing well for yourself, though.

- I decide to flip my tunnel that I've had for the whole game (Xiz) on the first day that I could actually have made something happen with it. If I was mafia and Xiz was town than it's not even that bad for me because I'd been developing that read for so long that it makes sense for me to kill him that day. Easiest misslynch ever. Hell I could have just claimed a red on him and it wouldn't have been that bad. If I already decided living on an expiration date was ok than why not.

Claiming a red on him would require you to change your role yet again.
Also that's the worst longterm strat a wolf would do when faking PR roles.
Like if you where a good wolf you would NEVER consider that this early.

- I decide not to claim a save on a day with no kill even though I have almost no reason not to. Sure I said that I was going to use mystic yesterday but how many people would have argued with me if I came out and said I lied and used angel anyways.

I'd admit this is a good point. You could have said you saved yourself because lols mystery game and there be little room to doubt.

BUT you turn around and try to get people to massclaim in the same post, which I do not see as pro-town. I don't know how gutsy you are and you could have been trying to claim you had info worthy of massclaiming for, something you couldn't do with a save.

I could endlessly tinfoil this point but I'll leave it there for now.

- I decide to openly role hunt in a situation where if too many towns got confirmed it could just be game over. Also if someone important comes out I have to leave them alive or die the next day.

Leave the alive or die the next day

Leave them alive, or die the next.....

Huh, that looks like mad slippage there pal. I should just stop typing right here and now but that'll be rude so here we go:
--
In a normal game....you still wouldn't have that strong of a point but in a mystery game this doesn't hold water at all.

1 OP says not to mass claim or else
2 InD made a great point about role guesser, and if we mass claim that could lead to more nights with 2 kills and not one (assuming no one-shots, of course)
3) Wolves have a list of high priority targets handed to them

I don't think I'm actually going to get a reads list done tonight because I just spent another hour writing up another post on basically the same shit I just said. I don't want to hear shit about how "lazy" I am because I'm already spending a majority of my free time playing this game instead of enjoying the start of my summer break. It's not like mafia isn't fun but when I have to spend most of my time repeating things that should be pretty clear I have a hard time enjoying it.

First, I get that summer vacation is awesome and can see where you are coming from .

Second, this is far, far FAR away from clear.

I was asked what I meant at the time I made that post. The numbers have been done, the scenarios have been considered. For wolves to have straight out no killed is not considerable at this point, especially if tiloco is blue.

That last part is the catch right, but when you throw in the fact that they bumped over a day it would be an absolutely stupid play.

As long as we're clear on that.

[MixMasterLar]

Re: TWG CLXVII Game Thread How Was Awakening Reviewed

Also if someone important comes out I have to leave them alive or die the next day.

Also, leaving this here

[DarkManticoreX2]

Re: TWG CLXVII Game Thread How Was Awakening Reviewed

Hmmm busy day.

Catching up

[DaBackpack]

Re: TWG CLXVII Game Thread How Was Awakening Reviewed

I'm doing livetwg and I'm hoping that gets me in the mood to go ham

if it doesn't I'm gonna try to go ham anyway, I feel like I'm holding the game back

[DaBackpack]

Re: TWG CLXVII Game Thread How Was Awakening Reviewed

I am definitely not looking forward to trying to solve tiloco though

[DarkManticoreX2]

Re: TWG CLXVII Game Thread How Was Awakening Reviewed

Alright I guess I'll make a small effortpost, because I'm starting to doubt my read on Tokzic.

Tokzic, I need you to look back at this reads list on D2 and tell me why soundwave was your top town read. At that point he had been nothing but scummy or nullread, having him as top town over InD and Cel at that point seems like a ludicrous read unless you're softing a clearing of soundwave.

I've been operating too long under the assumption that you cleared him by use of an investigative power, and I need to that cleared up so I can reevaluate you and soundwave.

I said before this game started that I was going to be more casual about this game. I ended up trying way harder than I expected D1 and I'm pretty confident about my D1 reads. So no, I don't really have much to say about me and Tiloco that I haven't already said. Everything I read this phase just gets me more confident that I've got a good grip on the game.

I'm going to give my comprehensive reads now.

Dbp
XelNya
Freezin
Xiz
Raeko/WV
Manti
Tiloco
blind
inD
Lar
Celery
Soundwave

That's all you get from me tonight. I warned when I signed that I was playing this game casually, and I'm not spending my night on TWG tonight. I don't want to overfixate on this game and I'm not going to.

If you want to lynch me for not putting enough effort in, do it. When I flip and you're wrong, then maybe start paying attention to my opinions instead of eating up this bullshit narrative the scum are pushing, because I think it is VERY FAR OFF from what's actually happening.

I would be very surprised if I have less than 3/4 in my top 4.

[DarkManticoreX2]

Re: TWG CLXVII Game Thread How Was Awakening Reviewed

Additionally, with Tiloco coming out and saying he didn't use his medic power, I think we need to be lynching between Cel and DBP.

I can almost guarantee a wolf between the two of them.

DBP continually misses the first day of each day phase and puts in minimal effort until the last few hours. He pushed LK from the sidelines, didn't hop on the Xel Vote until the wagon was already decided, Shows up late D3, and keeps pressure on blind, who was the only wagon that looked tipable. Both me and Tokzic were possible wagons, but it was stated in multiple places of different players resistances to vote for either player.

Cel: The flipping on and off of Tiloco prior phase looked like you were trying to figure out what town's mood was towards him, and if you could get him lynched. I would say your recent play is starting to look opportunistic instead of investigative, and it's been bugging me starting with tiloco, and again with putting the counterwagon on me.

Gonna take a swing at DBP for now, because his phases and votes have been consistently scummy. If DBP dies and is somehow not a wolf, Cel should die the next phase barring something incredibly ridiculous coming to light.

[DaBackpack]

Re: TWG CLXVII Game Thread How Was Awakening Reviewed

Additionally, with Tiloco coming out and saying he didn't use his medic power, I think we need to be lynching between Cel and DBP.

I can almost guarantee a wolf between the two of them.

DBP continually misses the first day of each day phase and puts in minimal effort until the last few hours. He pushed LK from the sidelines, didn't hop on the Xel Vote until the wagon was already decided, Shows up late D3, and keeps pressure on blind, who was the only wagon that looked tipable. Both me and Tokzic were possible wagons, but it was stated in multiple places of different players resistances to vote for either player.

Cel: The flipping on and off of Tiloco prior phase looked like you were trying to figure out what town's mood was towards him, and if you could get him lynched. I would say your recent play is starting to look opportunistic instead of investigative, and it's been bugging me starting with tiloco, and again with putting the counterwagon on me.

Gonna take a swing at DBP for now, because his phases and votes have been consistently scummy. If DBP dies and is somehow not a wolf, Cel should die the next phase barring something incredibly ridiculous coming to light.

why do you think this? why are you enforcing this dichotomy?

[DaBackpack]

Re: TWG CLXVII Game Thread How Was Awakening Reviewed

see it's weird that you're guaranteeing "there's one wolf in this pair" when hey, when it's very likely that two mislynches ends the game for us

[DaBackpack]

Re: TWG CLXVII Game Thread How Was Awakening Reviewed

Additionally, with Tiloco coming out and saying he didn't use his medic power, I think we need to be lynching between Cel and DBP.

I can almost guarantee a wolf between the two of them.

DBP continually misses the first day of each day phase and puts in minimal effort until the last few hours. He pushed LK from the sidelines, didn't hop on the Xel Vote until the wagon was already decided, Shows up late D3, and keeps pressure on blind, who was the only wagon that looked tipable. Both me and Tokzic were possible wagons, but it was stated in multiple places of different players resistances to vote for either player.

Cel: The flipping on and off of Tiloco prior phase looked like you were trying to figure out what town's mood was towards him, and if you could get him lynched. I would say your recent play is starting to look opportunistic instead of investigative, and it's been bugging me starting with tiloco, and again with putting the counterwagon on me.

Gonna take a swing at DBP for now, because his phases and votes have been consistently scummy. If DBP dies and is somehow not a wolf, Cel should die the next phase barring something incredibly ridiculous coming to light.

this post reads like you're posturing for when I'm mislynched, which leads me to suspect that celirra is also town here

I should have iso'd you instead of blind last night

[DaBackpack]

Re: TWG CLXVII Game Thread How Was Awakening Reviewed

well really I should have contributed more earlier on but given that I only had time for one ISO, it should have been you

[DarkManticoreX2]

Re: TWG CLXVII Game Thread How Was Awakening Reviewed

why do you think this? why are you enforcing this dichotomy?

see it's weird that you're guaranteeing "there's one wolf in this pair" when hey, when it's very likely that two mislynches ends the game for us

this post reads like you're posturing for when I'm mislynched, which leads me to suspect that celirra is also town here

I should have iso'd you instead of blind last night

I think you're just mad that your wolf game is going to end this phase.

I see you conveniently missed my qualifier in "almost guarantee", thanks for trying to twist my words. not gonna let you do it though.

[DaBackpack]

Re: TWG CLXVII Game Thread How Was Awakening Reviewed

Additionally, with Tiloco coming out and saying he didn't use his medic power, I think we need to be lynching between Cel and DBP.

I can almost guarantee a wolf between the two of them.

DBP continually misses the first day of each day phase and puts in minimal effort until the last few hours. He pushed LK from the sidelines, didn't hop on the Xel Vote until the wagon was already decided, Shows up late D3, and keeps pressure on blind, who was the only wagon that looked tipable. Both me and Tokzic were possible wagons, but it was stated in multiple places of different players resistances to vote for either player.

Cel: The flipping on and off of Tiloco prior phase looked like you were trying to figure out what town's mood was towards him, and if you could get him lynched. I would say your recent play is starting to look opportunistic instead of investigative, and it's been bugging me starting with tiloco, and again with putting the counterwagon on me.

Gonna take a swing at DBP for now, because his phases and votes have been consistently scummy. If DBP dies and is somehow not a wolf, Cel should die the next phase barring something incredibly ridiculous coming to light.

I don't give a fuck that you said "almost guarantee", functionally it's the same goddamn thing

you're trying to set up the next two phases of lynches and that's scummy

I'm actually surprised that you are even arguing this point because you should know better than that

[DaBackpack]

Re: TWG CLXVII Game Thread How Was Awakening Reviewed

I'm surprised that you're outright rejecting my point with semantic bullshit and you're ignoring the "meat" of what I'm saying

you are situating yourself for two consecutive lynches when there are likely two mislynches to lose the game