9th (and 10th?) Official Tournament -- D7 (and others?) Format Change?

[Salitz]

Re: 9th (and 10th?) Official Tournament -- D7 (and others?) Format Change?

I'm for this across the board for all divisions. The whole season -> playoff feel seems pretty interesting to me. I have to disagree (to a point) that this wouldn't take away much of that classic cut-throat tension you get off of an elimination every round. Generally speaking, the first 2 rounds, for the majority of divisions, is more of a cut-off for inactives than anything else. I've never had it happen to me personally, but it has to suck to be in the handful of people who actually played and still got eliminated early. Implementing something like this makes the tournament more enjoyable to the community as whole, and you don't have people dropping off the face of the earth as soon as they get eliminated. Notice how the activity in the tourney thread dies every year after a few weeks? Yeah.

Now about the argument regarding D1 players not having a chance to skillboost; if they're a lower tier player in their division that's really trying hard to improve, is it not possible they would be eliminated early regardless? To me that would kinda take my ambition away. Having the 4 cumulative rounds may stack the odds against them, but it's better than being out completely.

TL;DR - This would make it more enjoyable for everyone, and you shouldn't base the tournament layout around people skillboosting

[TheSaxRunner05]

Re: 9th (and 10th?) Official Tournament -- D7 (and others?) Format Change?

I'm for this across the board for all divisions. The whole season -> playoff feel seems pretty interesting to me. I have to disagree (to a point) that this wouldn't take away much of that classic cut-throat tension you get off of an elimination every round. Generally speaking, the first 2 rounds, for the majority of divisions, is more of a cut-off for inactives than anything else. I've never had it happen to me personally, but it has to suck to be in the handful of people who actually played and still got eliminated early. Implementing something like this makes the tournament more enjoyable to the community as whole, and you don't have people dropping off the face of the earth as soon as they get eliminated. Notice how the activity in the tourney thread dies every year after a few weeks? Yeah.

Now about the argument regarding D1 players not having a chance to skillboost; if they're a lower tier player in their division that's really trying hard to improve, is it not possible they would be eliminated early regardless? To me that would kinda take my ambition away. Having the 4 cumulative rounds may stack the odds against them, but it's better than being out completely.

TL;DR - This would make it more enjoyable for everyone, and you shouldn't base the tournament layout around people skillboosting

Agreed

[shenjoku]

Re: 9th (and 10th?) Official Tournament -- D7 (and others?) Format Change?

I fully support this idea. As someone who's gotten knocked out first round every tournament I've been in it's kinda frustrating and feels like I get nothing out of it.

[rCaliberGX]

Re: 9th (and 10th?) Official Tournament -- D7 (and others?) Format Change?

+1 to this

i'm pretty sure i'm the slower non-viking version of player A in the example llol

[yo man im awesome]

Re: 9th (and 10th?) Official Tournament -- D7 (and others?) Format Change?

If nothing else, it would certainly be a good experiment for future tournaments. Give it a shot, see how it turns out!

[DefconZero]

Re: 9th (and 10th?) Official Tournament -- D7 (and others?) Format Change?

Do it up!

[MixMasterLar]

Re: 9th (and 10th?) Official Tournament -- D7 (and others?) Format Change?

I think all divisions should be run the same way. A player that's one of the weakest to make the cutoff for another division isn't going to want to be eliminated in the first round. This is true regardless of which division it's in.

But I think this would actually discourage players from trying even more for the most part. This is because with an average over many rounds, the weaker players have even less of a chance to win since the better players will do better in more of the rounds to get a better total score so that it'd be far too hard for a bad player to upset a good player. I.e., even if they were actually in more rounds, they'd still find reason to essentially give up even sooner than if it were elimination.

I think the normal elimination way is the best and should be done for all divisions. It works and doesn't really have many drawbacks. It keeps players on their toes working hard to stay in the tournament in each round. It's far more exciting at the end of a round to see some people eliminated than a couple people moved up and down a little in a cumulative score.

I fully agree.

[drizzleRomanceGirl]

Re: 9th (and 10th?) Official Tournament -- D7 (and others?) Format Change?

I don't like the idea of a non-elimination tournament, even for only D7, because I enjoy the idea of being able to pass a round based on your skill, which would give me a sense of accomplishment. I also wouldn't like if this idea was only for the first half of the tournament. If people know they won't get eliminated until half of the tournament is over, they might not be motivated to do well for the first half of the tournament, and they won't have as much fun. I do, however, like the idea of cumulative scoring, so I suggest that we still have an elimination tournament for all the divisions, but instead of the eighth round going to the person who scored the highest for just that particular round, I think it should go to person who receives the highest total score of all eight rounds among the remaining players in the last round.

[Zephei]

Re: 9th (and 10th?) Official Tournament -- D7 (and others?) Format Change?

I like this idea. Non-elimination for the first few rounds caters to players with different skill-sets, like those in D7 who score higher on harder songs and relatively poorly on the easier ones. Personally, I would enjoy staying in the tournament for a couple of extra rounds, not for a better chance to place, but just to participate.

There's little inherent bias in the final placing when extending this to all divisions, although it's more obvious for D1-6.

[Viisbyxa]

Re: 9th (and 10th?) Official Tournament -- D7 (and others?) Format Change?

I do, however, like the idea of cumulative scoring, so I suggest that we still have an elimination tournament for all the divisions, but instead of the eighth round going to the person who scored the highest for just that particular round, I think it should go to person who receives the highest total score of all eight rounds among the remaining players in the last round.

That would punish skillboosts and reward people who kept a very similar (and relatively high) level of skill throughout the tournament. I'd think that usually skillboosts are more indicative of working hard at winning (not in all cases, but in general), and it would be really disappointing to work hard at it and then lose after the last round because you weren't able to do as well in early rounds.

[XelNya]

Re: 9th (and 10th?) Official Tournament -- D7 (and others?) Format Change?

I love the idea Aj. It gives everyone a really fair chance to not let one round spell their end. As a user who's bane of existence is usually round 2, it'd be a very welcomed concept.

[drizzleRomanceGirl]

Re: 9th (and 10th?) Official Tournament -- D7 (and others?) Format Change?

That would punish skillboosts and reward people who kept a very similar (and relatively high) level of skill throughout the tournament. I'd think that usually skillboosts are more indicative of working hard at winning (not in all cases, but in general), and it would be really disappointing to work hard at it and then lose after the last round because you weren't able to do as well in early rounds.

I agree that people who have relatively high scores from the start would be at an advantage. However, people who receive a lower score than others in the last round when the song doesn't favor their skillset would also be at a disadvantage, and it would not gauge their overall skill. In my opinion, someone who receives overall higher scores throughout the tournament should win over someone who receives a higher score for the last round or two because the former case more accurately depicts his or her overall skill. Even when someone tries harder and skillboosts more than someone who received an overall higher score without trying as much, I would still believe that the person who received an overall higher score has more of an ability to do well on songs in general, and that he or she should rank higher in the division.

I hope I don't sound rude or mean. This is my opinion, and it is not meant to persuade you to change your own opinion.

[EzExZeRo7497]

Re: 9th (and 10th?) Official Tournament -- D7 (and others?) Format Change?

@Poison-: I understand that, but despite the fact that lower-end players are given the chance to participate in the tourney a little more, it doesn't necessarily mean that they will actually try.

The reason why I don't think it'll help low D7 (or lower-end players of a division in general if this is going to cater towards all divisions) is that no matter if they were given the opportunity to participate for 4 more rounds, chances are that they won't be able to catch up to the top 8 anyway, which is mainly mid to high D7.

The gap between low D7 (Zephei, kjwkjw) and mid D7 (Dynamo, One Winged Angel) is ridiculously large. The only thing that this new format change will benefit to are players who are weak in easier files (PA-wise) and much stronger in harder files. Almost none of the players in D7 are like that, with the exception of myself, since they won't be eliminated in the earlier rounds and will make a comeback at the harder files.

Seeing that no one in D7 is like that, nothing much will really change. If you're lacking behind by 1-2 goods per round, consider yourself eliminated unless you somehow got a file that's right up your alley at Round 5 or some round which most players will struggle in. But by the time the file comes, you wouldn't be motivated enough because there would be almost no chance to make a comeback.

I personally would want to see a complete non-elimination tourney instead, since there will be more room for comebacks which I personally find a lot more exciting. There won't be any occasion where someone would go from 16th place to 1st place in 2 rounds, so you can't necessarily "fluke" your way to first place. However, if you're able to find your stride and beat most players in the last 2 rounds, you deserve that position. I personally value great accuracy on higher-end files (96+) more than perfect accuracy on files that are 85-88.

[benguino]

Re: 9th (and 10th?) Official Tournament -- D7 (and others?) Format Change?

Perhaps there could be a better way to implement both nicely?

One possible way perhaps would be to run through the tournament in the usual elimination style. However, still keep track of the cumulative scores along the way, even for the players that were already eliminated. This could easily be implemented with two dashboards with the default one being elimination. At the end of the tourney, of course we would distribute prizes like we would a elimination tourney. However, after those prizes are distributed, we take a look at the cumulative-scoring dashboard. Let us say that Player X didn't make top 16 in the elimination-dashboard. However we notice he did make top 16 in the cumulative-dashboard. We would then give Player X a complimentary prize of either lesser or equal value than the prize he would have received if he made top 16 in the elimination-dashboard. Any thoughts?

[L.B.D.D]

Re: 9th (and 10th?) Official Tournament -- D7 (and others?) Format Change?

I personally would want to see a complete non-elimination tourney instead, since there will be more room for comebacks which I personally find a lot more exciting. There won't be any occasion where someone would go from 16th place to 1st place in 2 rounds, so you can't necessarily "fluke" your way to first place. However, if you're able to find your stride and beat most players in the last 2 rounds, you deserve that position. I personally value great accuracy on higher-end files (96+) more than perfect accuracy on files that are 85-88.

exactly this