Does your gender or sex define you?

[MetalAtlas]

Re: Does your gender or sex define you?

The thing is, I don't feel comfortable flirting as a guy. It's never something I've really done.
I'd much prefer if girls came up to me than the other way around, as girls are so used to happening. They pretty much choose who they want based on who walks up to them...

That may seem odd, but I just don't like the concept that the guy has to go to the female, and the thought of asking a girl out is automatically telling the girl you are interested in her sexually, and want to end up having sex with her.

I've neither felt comfortable talking about who I would "bang", etc with other guys for this reason even though as a guy, its how I "should be".

It's not really the way I am, even though I do, at least in part have this male suggestion in my system that thats the way I would like to be. I do of course have a sexual system, and I do get feelings of attraction for girls, but its the thought of them thinking something about you, that I do not like somehow, even though I do think the way guys do most of the time.

That doesnt have anything to do with being 100 percent straight or whatever. It means you're respectful, that you wouldn't have a relationship based off of sex but something that was meaningful. Thats the was a guy should act IMO. talking about you you would 'bang' is kind of vulgar. But being she and lacking confidence it was has to do with most of it. Back to the question at hand though, There is no way to say what is or who is 100 percent gay or straight. It really doesn't matter. The only way someone wouldn;t have identity issues is if they were secluded or didn;t really get involved with themselves or the world. Just, eh ok I'll go with it.

[ScylaX]

Re: Does your gender or sex define you?

Since you guys summarized most of the problems from gender switch, I wanted to know your opinion on some things :

First :
What if someone who really wanted to switch sex woke up with its "dream" realized (without the hormonal problems that make every situation almost impossible to live) ? Considering he would be euphoric on the moment, do you think the fact he has been since its birth from the other gender will still involve problems on the long term ? Or will it perfectly stick because of the identity problem its previous gender caused to that person ?

Second :
Imagine that an homosexual person that doesn't accept its homosexuality is confronted to this context : Do you think it will be the same as above, aka causing an euphory because of the fact its main problem have been solved ? What about the identity complex then ?

[Izzy]

Re: Does your gender or sex define you?

Yes, my identity would be "changed" but that might not necessarily be a long term issue. I don't think I would find it problematic in the long run even if it changes who I am and how I think. I am a rather feminine male in the first place so tipping it over to a masculine female isn't a huge mental change.

[Rubin0]

Re: Does your gender or sex define you?

Second :
Imagine that an homosexual person that doesn't accept its homosexuality is confronted to this context : Do you think it will be the same as above, aka causing an euphory because of the fact its main problem have been solved ? What about the identity complex then ?

You are assuming that this person considers being gay a problem in the first place. And why do you keep referring to this imaginary gay person as "it"?

[ScylaX]

Re: Does your gender or sex define you?

You are assuming that this person considers being gay a problem in the first place.

Wasn't exactly was I thought : the person in question couldn't accept its gay identity because of how the people that surrounds it consider the sexual orientation it holds, it would be a relief to that person if one of its main problem has suddenly been vanished. But I don't know if it isn't fixing an identity problem to replace it with another...

And why do you keep referring to this imaginary gay person as "it"?

Because I'm talking about someone that can be a guy or a girl, right ? my english teacher explained me that it was how you talked about somebody when its gender wasn't necessarily a man.

[rushyrulz]

Re: Does your gender or sex define you?

I'd pick "them/they" before I referred to a person as "it"

-random comment from someone who only read the last post-

And you have a bad english teacher. (don't even think about pointing out the irony that I started that sentence with a conjunction x.x)

[Rubin0]

Re: Does your gender or sex define you?

Your English teacher is wrong. A person is never referred to as "it". And it is also improper to use "they", although I use it all the time. You have to pick either male or female when talking about a hypothetical person or use the "he or she" method which can get annoying.

For example, "If this person is gay, then HE should accept HIMSELF."

OR

"If this person is gay, then HE or SHE should accept HIM or HERSELF."

[ScylaX]

Re: Does your gender or sex define you?

Well, you both could have told that to me by private messaging since it's off-topic but thanks for the rectification anyway.

[Rubin0]

Re: Does your gender or sex define you?

Hey, I'm not judging you. I'm judging your stupid English teacher.

[Izzy]

Re: Does your gender or sex define you?

I have found that the official english grammar rules in places such as england are actually different. It could very well be proper to use it that way. I wouldn't.. but I live in the US.

I remember getting into an arguing with someone who said "Rhapsody are awesome" rather than "Rhapsody is awesome". I kept telling her that the band rhapsody isn't a plural so you wouldn't use "are". But apparently in england a group under a single name is considered a plural.

I only mention this because it looks as though scylax lives in france.

[Kage06]

Re: Does your gender or sex define you?

Yeah, I'd say "are" as well because I see the group as being many people so, it is plural.
I don't specify it as is because that would be talking about the band name, not the band?
I'm from the UK

Plus, I'd never say it either.

I think if someone who is gay wanted to change sexes, then yes, they'd probably be happy about it.
I would still think they would have problems accepting the change though...

They would though be considered to be a heterosexual female; not a homosexual male as they were previously, which could change a lot of other events, especially in the dating scene

[Cavernio]

Re: Does your gender or sex define you?

I know I've left my thread for awhile, been busy lately. As such, I'm going to give my 2 cents before I've read the entire thread, but will answer 1 specific thing (which is where I've stopped reading):

"I'm still confused as to how over 54% of the participants in the polling answered "no" to the question. I can only assume a majority of them didn't fully understand the question. The only two ways I could see someone being content with an unanticipated sex change would be if either:

- the person was suffering from gender identity issues prior to this hypothetical scenario

or if:

- the person's brain chemistry changed with their respective sex.. and even in which case, would take a while to adjust to

I'm curious as to what other reasons would cause so many people to be so sure that they could cope in a situation like this.."

I answered no, and I am not transgendered. I feel I'm a woman because I'm in a woman's body, but that I feel I am a human first and foremost, and being human defines me...being a human male or human female seem so similar to me.

Let me tell you this, when I first got on the internet when I was, like, 13, and I'd play games and chat or just go into chatrooms, it was all ASL the first question. (age sex location, not advanced squad leader.) Often I'd go into places and refuse to say if I were male or female. It would soon become a topic of note in chat, and the conclusion that most people came to was that I was a guy who was likely transgendered. I am not transgendered, nor am I a guy. At that point, I remember not even being sure what a transexual was, at least what the word meant, but I was disappointed that I still had to choose a sex, and that my view that gender/sex isn't all that important wasn't more universal. (Of course, I was even more disappointed when the internet became just a branch for what most people have in their everyday life, and photos became popular. I want to be me for my mind, not my body, and the internet allows for this amazing freedom.) I feel like I've more or less caved into disclosing my gender, partially because its easier, partially because I get pissy when people think I'm a man and I feel like I have to stick up for my sex.
And its not like I'm an asexual person either, or that I'm attracted to both men and women. I find sex 'gets in the way' of living more often than not, and it IS frustrating when I always have thoughts of 'is he flirting, am I being perceived of flirting, is this more than just platonic for someone?' getting in the way of otherwise good conversations. I mean, I love being in love just like anyone else, but its still a pain.

[Cavernio]

Re: Does your gender or sex define you?

Well, seeing as I have more time, and reading that most of the rest of the conversation is about the poor wording of english...actually, it really bothers me that I can't refer to myself or others without there being a gender assigned to it. I use 'they' and 'them' for that, because 'it' is terrible, and he/she is unwieldly. 'They and them' sound alright to me grammatically, and if we all just use it enough, it'll stick! Easiest thing to do IMO, easier than adding a whole new set of articles.

Kilroy: For certain my poll is made for non-TG, because the majority of people aren't TG. I already heamed and hawed over how to word what I wanted to ask for like 20 minutes. In hindsight I should have put a 3rd poll choice, as I very much wanted to hear from TG people. I realize I'm very much representing my upbringing as a fairly young canadian woman when I can say my gender doesn't matter. In fact, I've very often thought that there would be fewer TG males if current north american society were as open about men doing womanly things than vice-versa. But clearly this is not the case, judging from you saying you really do feel like you're in the wrong body, and that you call me out when I make it solely an issue of mistaken identity. There are very clearly non-TG who feel like you do too. I just find it so...weird to have that issue with your body. For example, sadly and amazingly, until I was told about the birds and the bees, I wasn't even really aware I HAD a vagina. I knew I had a womb, but that's not the same thing. I think I thought babies were born out of your mouth? Pee doesn't come from there, poo doesn't come from there, it doesn't get breezy down there, and even to look down there, there's just a bunch of folds...I had no idea I had a sizable hole in my anatomy. Also, as you've probably heard, I've got no fingers on one of my hands. I was born that way. Kids often come up and ask me 'how does it feel', and I can only answer 'it feels normal, just like my other hand'. In this case I have a comparison hand, and even that doesn't make my fingerless hand feel wrong. I've only just thought about this, but I'm sure reasons like these are why I never really got the 'I'm in the wrong body' thing.

That said, I am very surprised, and delighted , that the polls are split about 50/50. I thought 90%+ would say 'yes', and that there'd be, like, 10 votes.

I've also cleared up a few things in my head. Some people feel very strongly that they are either a man or a woman, and can't see how that cannot really matter...not just to them, but to everyone else too. I never really new that, and I'm very happy my thought excersise worked the way I wanted it to, (instead of backfiring terribly like they usually do for me.) And hopefully those people will actually think about how so many people don't feel that way too, without just thinking them dumb.

I do want to also add that, if I were to suddenly become a man, and I happened to biologically start being attracted to women because of it, it would make the transition harder, but I still think I'd be able to get used to to that. The assumption that I would be a gay man is dependent on biology not being strong enough to overcome the previous life experiences.

[Kilroy_x]

Re: Does your gender or sex define you?

I feel like I've more or less caved into disclosing my gender, partially because its easier, partially because I get pissy when people think I'm a man and I feel like I have to stick up for my sex.

This doesn't mesh with what you've been telling us.

Kilroy: For certain my poll is made for non-TG, because the majority of people aren't TG. I already heamed and hawed over how to word what I wanted to ask for like 20 minutes. In hindsight I should have put a 3rd poll choice, as I very much wanted to hear from TG people. I realize I'm very much representing my upbringing as a fairly young canadian woman when I can say my gender doesn't matter. In fact, I've very often thought that there would be fewer TG males if current north american society were as open about men doing womanly things than vice-versa*. But clearly this is not the case, judging from you saying you really do feel like you're in the wrong body, and that you call me out when I make it solely an issue of mistaken identity. There are very clearly non-TG who feel like you do too. I just find it so...weird to have that issue with your body. For example, sadly and amazingly, until I was told about the birds and the bees, I wasn't even really aware I HAD a vagina. I knew I had a womb, but that's not the same thing. Pee doesn't come from there, poo doesn't come from there, it doesn't get breezy down there, and even to look down there, there's just a bunch of folds...I had no idea I had a sizable hole in my anatomy. Also, as you've probably heard, I've got no fingers on one of my hands. I was born that way. Kids often come up and ask me 'how does it feel', and I can only answer 'it feels normal, just like my other hand'. In this case I have a comparison hand, and even that doesn't make my fingerless hand feel wrong. I've only just thought about this, but I'm sure reasons like these are why I never really got the 'I'm in the wrong body' thing.

* You mean TG woman.

Also, the story about your hand is pretty fascinating. It reintroduces complexity into the issue that I had thought I had resolved. I'll just say that I will respect you at your word about your feelings if you can do the same for me, because right now it seems that we're both in a position where we could resolve our own feelings into the universal norm if we were willing to dismiss the other person's feelings in some way, and that's an unhelpful situation to try and capitalize off of.

I do want to also add that, if I were to suddenly become a man, and I happened to biologically start being attracted to women because of it, it would make the transition harder, but I still think I'd be able to get used to to that. The assumption that I would be a gay man is dependent on biology not being strong enough to overcome the previous life experiences.

You're making another uncritical assumption here, and that is that heterosexuality is a product of biology where homosexuality is not. This is extremely heterosexist, not to mention unscientific, and it also highlights a general problem with this discussion. You're literally just guessing at what it would feel like to wake up in a different sex body, and what the implications of this would be. Granted I'm sure your "thought experiment" is quite entertaining for a lot of people, but you should really stop for a second and realize that what you're doing is using vague ungrounded guesswork to de-legitimize the feelings of a minority group.

It would be like if I made a poll asking if the reader had hypothetically been born without fingers on one hand, and with fingers on another, would this bother them? Everyone who voted yes on that would be dismissing your own feelings as invalid, and they would be doing it without having even the slightest experience with the subject.

And again, your word choice and general train of thought throughout this topic has been extremely offensive in many places. It makes it difficult for me to believe this topic wasn't specifically constructed to slight TG people.

[Rubin0]

Re: Does your gender or sex define you?

As a lesbian and as someone heavily involved in the LGBT community, both socially and academically, I have learned not to expect heterosexual people to know or understand "gender queer" jargon and vocabulary. I really don't think people are trying to be offensive. I myself might come off as offensive because I don't advertise my sexuality and it's difficult to listen to someone's point of view if you truly believe they can't relate to you.


It's also difficult to NOT be offensive (even if unintentionally) when you have very little to absolutely no knowledge about a topic but have already formed an opinion about it. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and as long as they are not being outwardly and purposely aggressive about it, then I let people stew in their own ignorance.