Is it wrong to be gay?

[super kid]

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_houston_mayor

[Chrissi]

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?

Well I'm bi, and I think it occurs exactly the same as homosexuality: something happens during development/life/socialization/etc that makes a person feel that way.

Personally I just don't give a damn about a person's genitalia and that's what it comes down to for me. I am attracted to -people-, not dicks or vags. Which actually makes me pansexual but nobody knows what that is so I just usually say bi for simplicity.

[Reach]

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?

The genes vs environment problem has been dead for a long time now; it's always both, so yes being homosexual has some genetic loading.

With that said, there's a very strong interaction between genes and environment when it comes to homosexuality, unlike say, height, which is almost entirely genetic.

Whenever there's a strong interaction between the two it's usually fallacious to say that something is primarily genetic or primarily environmental. At that point it's directly analogous to saying that the area of some field is primarily width and not length. You can't parse the two; they're directly related because the genes are interacting with the environment by predisposing the person to engage more frequently in certain conditions, and the environment is playing right back on the genetic predispositions.



Anyway, to directly answer the question at hand, since I haven't been involved in this thread - whether it's right or wrong depends primarily on whatever moral system you're using. It's entirely arbitrary. Right and wrong is also entirely arbitrary.

With that said, how we should treat non heterosexuals isn't so arbitrary. Good luck making a proper justification for mistreating an individual because of their sexuality.

[N.T.M.]

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?

Brain scans do not indicate genetic cause. Our brains are malleable - for example, people who have grown up with cell phones have a larger representation of the thumb in the brain from texting so much. I hope you don't think this means that it was in our generation's genes to text. That would be silly.

lol Not at all. I should have clarified. I just thought it was interesting and threw it out there.

[Izzy]

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?

[Rubin0]

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?

This is a really interesting post and there is a lot less homophobia here than I would have expected. I think people need someone to hate. It makes them feel superior somehow. I do not think it is wrong to be gay since I am gay. I don't understand why anyone would hate me for this. I don't understand how people can base everything on a book that was written by men thousands of years ago....a book that also says you can sell your daughters into slavery among other horrible things.

I have never heard any legitimate reason why being gay is wrong. People are afraid that their children will turn out gay so they feel as though they need to keep them away from gays. If society would just realize that gay is just an alternative to what we consider normal and not something sick or evil, then the idea of a gay child would not seem so horrifying.

[MYZZ]

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?

Embracing homosexuality lowers birth rate and it ever caught on big time, it could lead to the decline of human population. It doesn't follow natural design either, everyone's base instinct is to live and reproduce. Homosexuality declines our born instincts for personal pleasure. Even if a straight person did not have any kids for his whole life, he would only do so by denying his sexual side. For a homosexual there is no denial, so he feels fulfilled from something that is to create new life but denies its true form and purpose.

[MrRubix]

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?

Embracing homosexuality lowers birth rate and it ever caught on big time, it could lead to the decline of human population. It doesn't follow natural design either, everyone's base instinct is to live and reproduce. Homosexuality declines our born instincts for personal pleasure. Even if a straight person did not have any kids for his whole life, he would only do so by denying his sexual side. For a homosexual there is no denial, so he feels fulfilled from something that is to create new life but denies its true form and purpose.

Naturalistic fallacy, for one.

I can't tell if you're trolling or genuinely misinformed/bigoted, but your argument is pretty terrible.

Do you understand concepts like evolution? There are genetic mutations from generation to generation -- little tiny tweaks and changes here and there that allow for genetic variation. The genes that are well-adapted to the environment generally survive while those that aren't are eventually phased out because they wind up not reproducing for whatever reason.

We've generally evolved the desire to reproduce because otherwise we wouldn't be here -- it's what's called a necessary condition, much like other concepts such as morality or language. That being said, you will have genetic tweaks that in some way grind against the norm. Even though cooperation perpetuates us, you'll still encounter a small minority that are genetically predisposed to be abrasive. Even though we generally desire to reproduce, you'll have those who have no such wish. And, likewise, we're generally attracted to the opposite sex, but there are those who aren't.

It's all a function of the environment -- your genes predispose you to certain attributes, and the rest of the environment continues to provide a force feedback, of sorts. It's a constant cycle of impacts.

Besides, our population is increasing pretty rapidly as it is, and it's not likely that otherwise straight males are going to start "turning gay" on everyone if homosexually is accepted -- that's been a tired, old, ineffective argument for years.

[rushyrulz]

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?

Embracing homosexuality lowers birth rate and if it ever caught on big time, it could lead to the decline of human population.

There are almost 7 billion people on this planet and there definitely not enough resources to accomodate everyone, slower population growth without other controversies such as abortion and stem cell research is an EXCELLENT thing... Why do people think that slowing the rate of population growth is a bad thing? It's just fantastic.


Best post in this thread:

More freedom to live different lifestyles + slower population growth = win/win

[RobertsonaIsBack]

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?

honestly ive gotten to the point where i just assume anyone who is against gay marriage is trolling

[Iam90]

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?

Their Trolling THemselves. Their Trolling THemselves....

[RubiedCross]

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?

Lol I got worst/best thread of like.... 08? 07? For a thread like this.

I'm religious so I'm clearly full of hatred so just ignore me.

I think being gay is lust-based. I love a bunch of guys, but in a brotherly way. I don't mean to put down anyone who is gay though. I have gay friends. They're really funny and cool and I hang out with them. We just both know what are own opinions are, and that's all it is. If you have people who just say "I don't like gay people", well, whoopdeedoo. They don't like gay people. Do they have a reason for it? Do they HAVE to? I personally think that someone who just flat out degrades whole groups of people like that is stupid and ignorant. But that is also MY opinion. If you can't handle people having their own opinions, then get out of America (or any place that has freedom of speech). And I mean this is a totally not mean way and I don't really want anyone to leave. I know plenty of people who just "Don't like Christians". Well, good for them. I just won't affiliate myself with them if I don't have to, and I go on with my life. Sure it stinks, but it's not the end of the word.

tl;dr don't get so butt-hurt about ***-haters lol.

[RobertsonaIsBack]

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?

my opinion is that we should lynch ******s heil hitler you can't do anything about it freedom of speech

why would i not get "butthurt" (as your childish oversimplification of all people who are angry at the fact that a group who have done no wrong except be themselves (but we cant have that!!!!) are being unfairly discriminated against) at something like this. were the civil rights marchers of the 60s being BUTTHURT about the position of blacks in society? should they just have "let other people have their opinions and not affiliate with those" while they were forced into separate, segregated public [insert one of a million things here]? c'mon

and how is being gay more "lust-based" than being straight. better question: are you really using this argument?

edit: about the first part, i know i am indeed protected to say things like that but my point is that you cant say whatever you want and then expect to fend off anyone who contests it by saying that it's "just your opinion" and that you have a right to it. especially in a forum like this lol

edit2: i would also like to call upon the thread to ban anything along the lines of "i am not homophobic because i have gay friends"

[fido123]

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?

Lol I got worst/best thread of like.... 08? 07? For a thread like this.

I'm religious so I'm clearly full of hatred so just ignore me.

I think being gay is lust-based. I love a bunch of guys, but in a brotherly way. I don't mean to put down anyone who is gay though. I have gay friends. They're really funny and cool and I hang out with them. We just both know what are own opinions are, and that's all it is. If you have people who just say "I don't like gay people", well, whoopdeedoo. They don't like gay people. Do they have a reason for it? Do they HAVE to? I personally think that someone who just flat out degrades whole groups of people like that is stupid and ignorant. But that is also MY opinion. If you can't handle people having their own opinions, then get out of America (or any place that has freedom of speech). And I mean this is a totally not mean way and I don't really want anyone to leave. I know plenty of people who just "Don't like Christians". Well, good for them. I just won't affiliate myself with them if I don't have to, and I go on with my life. Sure it stinks, but it's not the end of the word.

tl;dr don't get so butt-hurt about ***-haters lol.

Why do people have to be so confidant their opinion is correct? First of all I'm gay and honestly I almost have no sex drive, in my case it's completely emotional. If males and females had the same bodies but similar emotional traits you'd still probably prefer one to the other. For this reason I could also be considered "Bisexual" but I just consider myself a 5 on the kinsey scale especially now that I actually have a girlfriend. I don't even think there's a true by nature 0 or 6 out there personally. No offense but with the information you gave us about your opinion I could simply say that all straight-relationships are lust-based because there's no reason as to why being full of lust gives you a hard-on for members of the same sex.

I do understand there are A LOT of gays who are full of lust, and honestly those tend to be the one's who annoy me so much I can't even hold a conversation with them. Now I understand you have an opinion that all gays are lust-based, but I'm simply saying if you don't know first hand, and you're really just kinda making a semi-educated guess or theory, why fully believe in it? My stance on religion is I THINK everything happens purely through science, but why should I pretend to know when I really don't have a ****ing clue? The origins of all matter and laws of physics and why guys like other guys isn't as complicated but why assume you know if you've never been through it?

Also ***-haters are really annoying when you're gay yourself. It's people hating you for something you have no control over, doesn't effect them, and to top it off their arguments are usually completely utterly retarded as most of them have the intelligence of a tea-partier. Also when family and friends are possible homophobes...big deal.

[RubiedCross]

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?

Actually everything is your opinion and anyone can say what they want. And I was in no way trying to give an "argument" against it. Someone asked a question, so I answered. I was angling this at you, so calm down. No need to freak out. As I said, I don't care if someone's gay or not. They're still a person, and I like to get to know people. The only people I don't like are hypocrites. Even then everyone is hypocritical every now and again.

PS I warned you. "I'm religious... just ignore me"

Since I warned you again, I explain in the quickest way that I can about why I said lust based. Because I want to get to bed.

I said it was lust based because in a heterosexual relationship there is the possibility of having a child. So, when you have sex, you can either have sex for the purpose of lust (which, yes, I know, everyone does), or to have a child. Or just to express your love it someone, which is why they also call it "making love" (duh). I, myself, am a virgin, and I'm going to wait to have sex until I'm with the person I want to spend the rest of my life with and have children with.

But please go ahead and defend your side and explain why I'm wrong so that people can at least get both sides. Just don't get so mad bro. I'm not trying to troll or anything, I'm just saying what I'm saying. I do like to hear what you and others have to say. It helps me have a better insight myself on why people do what they do. Because we're all different, nobody just instantly understands everyone else. But if we didn't like people just because they're different we'd be a pretty ****ed up world.

PSS Missed ya Robertsona <3


Oh my word Fido missed you too lol. Gimme a minute to type something up to you too.

Yeah. I generalized. My b. Nothing really I can say there. And it's not really what I believe. It's just what I thought of on the top of my head rather than just saying it goes against my beliefs.

I don't assume to know. Which is why I said I like to hear from other people (see above). I don't know it all and I'd be dumb to think I do.

As for my religion, that's something totally different and I don't want to get into, not because I don't like to discuss it, but because it takes wayyyyyy too long. I just want to say one last thing before you guys respond again and I head out.

I don't mean any harm. If I got to know you guys better I'm sure you'd be wicked cool and we could be friends. I just have a different opinion over something that's important to you. Guess what? You have a different opinion over something that's important to me! We're in the same boat. So just remember that we're all people. I have feelings too, ya know.

PSSS You gotta remember that I started a thread asking why people are gay a couple years ago when I was 13.... lol what a dumbass huh? I ask because I want to learn. Because I don't know. Anyways, good night.

(And sorry about the butt-hurt thing. I forget sometimes that I'm... wait... this is in the critical thinking thread haha. I'm sorry. I thought it was chit-chat.)