Is it wrong to be gay?

[0MG]

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?

This is why I don't proclaim to ever be religious. Aspects of religion like homosexuality sway one to believe that because of a higher power something else is wrong in it's entirety, and because that higher power "said so". Where hath morality gone? If one can't help nor change something about themselves, then live with it. Gay's aren't hurting anyone. For the record, I am straight but have many gay friends.

One thing I will point out though is that it is unfair to a minimal degree to a child in a gay marriage.

[MrRubix]

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?

I see absolutely nothing wrong with a child having two gay parents. As long as they are good parents, what's the concern? There is, perhaps, a legitimate concern in the social aspect of things, but it's really just another extension of social stigma no inherently different from, say, having a black mother and an Asian father, or a white mother and an Indian father, etc. It's just that homosexuality tends to be under heavier fire because it's a more fundamental difference (on a physical level). And yet, what most people fail to realize, is that it's a harmless difference with no harmful impacts on anything on the margin or residual.

[0MG]

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?

I see absolutely nothing wrong with a child having two gay parents. As long as they are good parents, what's the concern? There is, perhaps, a legitimate concern in the social aspect of things, but it's really just another extension of social stigma no inherently different from, say, having a black mother and an Asian father, or a white mother and an Indian father, etc. It's just that homosexuality tends to be under heavier fire because it's a more fundamental difference -- and yet, what most people fail to realize, is that it's a harmless difference with no harmful impacts on anything on the margin or residual.

It would impact the child's life. Kids who grow up with no father are missing a male father figure, and vice versa. Grouping two male father figures or two female figures only fills a void that is awkward if filled by a same counterpart. Also, a child's social life would be altered when all they see is moms and dads picking their kids up from school. Again, this is my only concern and it is a very minimal one.

[MrRubix]

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?

Can you point me to any study that shows a significantly negative impact on a child's emotional development from not having dual-sex parents?

I'll save you some time: There aren't any. What matters more is that the parents are good parents. Having abusive parents, or poor parents, or neglectful parents, or lazy non-interactive parents will result in far worse outcomes than having gay parents.

Again, in terms of family, kids grow up just fine with two men/two women for parents. The only thing that "matters" is the "social perception," which is an irrational one in this case. Some social perceptions have a logical backing to them, but the social perception against homosexuality does not, and has its roots in ignorance and fear.

"We have nothing to fear but fear itself" is truer than most people realize.

[qqwref]

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?

It would impact the child's life. Kids who grow up with no father are missing a male father figure, and vice versa. Grouping two male father figures or two female figures only fills a void that is awkward if filled by a same counterpart. Also, a child's social life would be altered when all they see is moms and dads picking their kids up from school. Again, this is my only concern and it is a very minimal one.

This isn't much of a concern because many children grow up in single-parent households (or in households where one parent is away most of the time), so unless that can be completely stopped this argument doesn't provide any reason to be against gay marriage. I think the thing that matters more than anything else (when it comes to the success of a nuclear family) is having two separate people who care for you and for each other.

[Mollocephalus]

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?

what's the purpose of having parents of two different genders anyways? why is it considered as a must? many species have different family structures, i don't see why this should be the only valid one as we're more flexible than any other animal.

[mhss1992]

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?

Honestly, you were totally crushed in that debate. Every argument you threw at me was completely torn apart, and you ignored half of the evidence/arguments that contradicted your claims. Your only retaliation was to spin it towards extraordinarily strange thought experiments, only to get dominated there as a result of a lack of understanding for how the human brain actually works. In the end, when the entire argument clearly destroyed your position, all you were able to say is "Well I don't care, I still believe in God."

That's how you felt? Well, I'm absolutely sure you (and most people) didn't understand a big part of what I was trying to say. I know it's my fault, though. I have lots of trouble explaining certain thoughts. And don't say "I did understand" because you never showed any sign of understanding it. Yes, I'm talking about that body-mind exchanging thing. I could tell from your answers that you just didn't understand what I was talking about, and I said it required a good abstraction capacity. But you insisted with the obvious, first impression you got from my argument, and that's why it didn't work. That's why I tried to use other arguments instead, but I was aware that they were weaker and non-conclusive.

What evidences did I ignore? The ones about evolution? Well, I always believed in evolution and stuff. I just started questioning it because I wasn't truly convinced by the evolutionary arguments. I have enough reasons to question certain things, I'm not some religious idiot who just ignores science and everything.

And "only to get dominated there as a result of a lack of understanding for how the human brain actually works": I wasn't even talking about how the human brain worked, and never claimed it worked in a certain way it didn't.

It really seems that you convince yourself that you're right and that all of the other person's arguments are wrong even before the discussion has started. Have you ever considered changing? What if you ARE wrong?

[TheSaxRunner05]

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?

It would impact the child's life. Kids who grow up with no father are missing a male father figure, and vice versa.

So what about single parents? Millions of children are being raised every year by single parents.

[devonin]

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?

I think the thing that matters more than anything else (when it comes to the success of a nuclear family) is having two separate people who care for you and for each other.

I think this is the point that is worth getting at. It's mopre valuable for a very young child to see what mutual caring, understanding and love look like than it is to have both a male and female parental figure. Both my father and step-mother work for the canadian child services program (Children's Aid Society) so I'm relatively aware of a lot of the different kinds of things that go on.

Children in a two-parent both-sex household where the parents fight, or are abusive, or cheat, or abuse substances are -way- worse off than even a financially struggling single parent who sometimes has trouble getting enough food on the table. My parents divorced when I was 2, and I spent half my childhood living with my mom (who has stayed unmarried ever since) and my dad (WHo was also single for 3 more years before remarrying) and while I still had the benefit of having a male and female parental figure in my life, I was essentially raised by single parents and I think I turned out fine.

[MrRubix]

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?

That's how you felt? Well, I'm absolutely sure you (and most people) didn't understand a big part of what I was trying to say. I know it's my fault, though. I have lots of trouble explaining certain thoughts. And don't say "I did understand" because you never showed any sign of understanding it. Yes, I'm talking about that body-mind exchanging thing. I could tell from your answers that you just didn't understand what I was talking about, and I said it required a good abstraction capacity. But you insisted with the obvious, first impression you got from my argument, and that's why it didn't work. That's why I tried to use other arguments instead, but I was aware that they were weaker and non-conclusive.

What evidences did I ignore? The ones about evolution? Well, I always believed in evolution and stuff. I just started questioning it because I wasn't truly convinced by the evolutionary arguments. I have enough reasons to question certain things, I'm not some religious idiot who just ignores science and everything.

And "only to get dominated there as a result of a lack of understanding for how the human brain actually works": I wasn't even talking about how the human brain worked, and never claimed it worked in a certain way it didn't.

It really seems that you convince yourself that you're right and that all of the other person's arguments are wrong even before the discussion has started. Have you ever considered changing? What if you ARE wrong?

To address your last sentence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mmskXXetcg

And yes, regarding the body-mind exchanging thing, I did understand your argument. However, you didn't seem to understand the argument explaining why the brain was crucial here -- saying "I wasn't even talking about how the human brain worked" again shows the misunderstanding. The answer to such a thought experiment doesn't require an abstract, complex answer because the answer is simple.

I'd love to pick the debate up again if you'd like.

[mhss1992]

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?

To address your last sentence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mmskXXetcg

And yes, regarding the body-mind exchanging thing, I did understand your argument. However, you didn't seem to understand the argument explaining why the brain was crucial here -- saying "I wasn't even talking about how the human brain worked" again shows the misunderstanding. The answer to such a thought experiment doesn't require an abstract, complex answer because the answer is simple.

I'd love to pick the debate up again if you'd like.

I'll soon watch the video.

You know, the exchanging thing was actually a mental exercise I created to help explain my point. It didn't really depend on the actual workings of the brain, and that's why I seemed so oblivious to that, even though I wasn't. It was just an idea, a tool used by me to explain the concept.

You made me think that you didn't understand, because you kept repeating the wrong obvious first impression of that idea, the same impression several of the people I know had when I tried to explain it to them. And that probably happened because you were treating the exchange as an event I actually believe could happen, even though it was just an idea.

[mhss1992]

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?

To address your last sentence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mmskXXetcg

Marcus, I am not a christian. I'm a deist. I've said this before, believing in God doesn't imply in being religious. I just believe in an intelligence, that's all. I'm not creating any dogmas nor anything.
When I asked why you were an atheist and not an agnostic, your answer was that "God isn't plausible", but you never actually explained why an intelligent origin wasn't plausible. It's really not a matter of probability.

And when I asked "what if you are wrong?" I wasn't referring only to this particular subject.

[MrRubix]

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?

Marcus, I am not a christian. I'm a deist. I've said this before, believing in God doesn't imply in being religious. I just believe in an intelligence, that's all. I'm not creating any dogmas nor anything.
When I asked why you were an atheist and not an agnostic, your answer was that "God isn't plausible", but you never actually explained why an intelligent origin wasn't plausible. It's really not a matter of probability.

And when I asked "what if you are wrong?" I wasn't referring only to this particular subject.

I'm going to make another thread for this

[Devilsrejectedsoul]

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?

There's nothing wrong about being gay. It's just something in your state of mind telling you what you believe is right. If something feels right them more then likely it completely is ok. I know some religions think it's wrong but really it's not. It's completely natural in life.

[Izzy]

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?

I agree that there is nothing wrong with being gay, but your reasoning is wrong.

Serial killers believe it is perfectly ok to kill the people they do because of whatever reason. They say something such as "God told me to do it" or whatever.