TOP Players / Tier Requirements Thread - Updated 7/8/09

[EgomaniaCircus]

Re: TOP Players / Tier Requirements Thread - Updated 6/26/08

I'm assuming they're waiting for the tournament to finish before updating tiers. Which will be nice, since the addition of the recent songs will most likely bump me up to tier 4.

Also, did something change recently? Because I could have sworn I had 214 TP a few days ago now I have 213.

Edit: I'm a noob lawl.

[Jerry DB]

Re: TOP Players / Tier Requirements Thread - Updated 6/26/08

tier 4 is 270 points. By the way im tier 4 now yay

Tier Points: 275 (256 + 19 for 384 AAAs)

[Callipygian]

Re: TOP Players / Tier Requirements Thread - Updated 6/26/08

looking at the tier list now i think with all the new hard file all the VCs should go
like

3/5 - Sympathizer - 12 or fewer
Cosmic Orchestra - 4 or fewer
4/5 - Love Cheat! - 5 or fewer
4/5 - Kakke Ecko - 3 or fewer
4/5 - {Frozen} - 4 or fewer
3/5 - UNknown Girl - Single Digit Good
3/5 - Aztec Templing (Techno-Titlan mix) - 7 or fewer
3/5 - Classical Insanity - Single Digit Good
etc...

well not all VCs but lots of them
I'm sure jimerax already planned something like that

I´m not sure hard files should get priority for inclusion in the tier list. More and more FMOs and FGOs will be added over time and if we stick to 100 tier songs it means the group of people able to get tier points will get smaller after every update, unless either average skill level rises and/or tier requirements for these hard songs are made easier.

An alternative would be to retain a certain ratio of VCs, FMOs and FGOs in the tier list, but the problem with that option is that it does not motivate people to whore tier songs, because they can be replaced with new ones any minute.

Considering the enormous increase in FFR songs as of recent, with over 700 songs excluding widgets at the moment, I think the number of tier songs should be gradually expanded. How about we try to keep the number of tier songs a percentage of total songs, (15-20%?), simply adding songs when needed and keeping a certain ratio of VC, FMO and FGO in mind?

[Xx{Midday}xX]

Re: TOP Players / Tier Requirements Thread - Updated 6/26/08

I´m not sure hard files should get priority for inclusion in the tier list. More and more FMOs and FGOs will be added over time and if we stick to 100 tier songs it means the group of people able to get tier points will get smaller after every update, unless either average skill level rises and/or tier requirements for these hard songs are made easier.

An alternative would be to retain a certain ratio of VCs, FMOs and FGOs in the tier list, but the problem with that option is that it does not motivate people to whore tier songs, because they can be replaced with new ones any minute.

Considering the enormous increase in FFR songs as of recent, with over 700 songs excluding widgets at the moment, I think the number of tier songs should be gradually expanded. How about we try to keep the number of tier songs a percentage of total songs, (15-20%?), simply adding songs when needed and keeping a certain ratio of VC, FMO and FGO in mind?

I disagree. Tier songs should be restricted to THE 100 most hardest songs in the game.

The point of tier points is not to encompass as many players on the site as possible, but to highlight the best players on the site. AAAcount/FCcount/levelrank encompasses everyone on the site already.

Tier song list has a limit of expansion because it'll become too heavy.

[cry4eternity]

Re: TOP Players / Tier Requirements Thread - Updated 6/26/08

New T4 player!

Tier Points: 270 (254 + 16 for 352 AAAs)

[blindreper1179]

Re: TOP Players / Tier Requirements Thread - Updated 6/26/08

T3 get!

[qqwref]

Re: TOP Players / Tier Requirements Thread - Updated 6/26/08

I'm sort of divided on the new-songs issue. On one hand, I do agree that TP songs ought to be the hardest songs in the game. On the other hand, FFR is combo-based, and I think that going towards the hardest songs could unfairly disadvantage people who get really good PA but miss a note every 1000 notes or so no matter how hard they try, and give an unfair advantage to people who have relatively bad PA but can FC most FGOs.

If you look at the hardest songs on the TP list right now, you can get a lot of points by just mashing a FC - for example I got 3 points on Ketsarku for a FC which was pretty much completely mashed (so that it ends up far short of the requirement for FC). On the other hand blve23 has a 6-1-2-4 on Ketsarku, which obviously requires more skill, but that score ends up getting the same number of TP because it's not a full combo. For the easier songs you already don't get any TP at all until you FC the song, regardless of how good your PA is. I think that making the average TP song harder would probably end up increasing this effect.

On the other hand, now that subbies can access their own P-G-A-M-B scores on their songs, maybe it's time for the TP calculator to look at that too. Perhaps we should reward PA instead of FCs, i.e. award points based on the number of perfects rather than the score. It wouldn't be as simple of a system (since people with very bad FCs who can't re-FC the song might have to submit screenshots/replays to get the tier points they deserve) but it would probably end up being better at identifying the best players.

[Redorigami]

Re: TOP Players / Tier Requirements Thread - Updated 6/26/08

Got T3 a while back, here's where I am now

Tier Points: 377 (357 + 20 for 391 AAAs)

[EgomaniaCircus]

Re: TOP Players / Tier Requirements Thread - Updated 6/26/08

I'm sort of divided on the new-songs issue. On one hand, I do agree that TP songs ought to be the hardest songs in the game. On the other hand, FFR is combo-based, and I think that going towards the hardest songs could unfairly disadvantage people who get really good PA but miss a note every 1000 notes or so no matter how hard they try, and give an unfair advantage to people who have relatively bad PA but can FC most FGOs.

If you look at the hardest songs on the TP list right now, you can get a lot of points by just mashing a FC - for example I got 3 points on Ketsarku for a FC which was pretty much completely mashed (so that it ends up far short of the requirement for FC). On the other hand blve23 has a 6-1-2-4 on Ketsarku, which obviously requires more skill, but that score ends up getting the same number of TP because it's not a full combo. For the easier songs you already don't get any TP at all until you FC the song, regardless of how good your PA is. I think that making the average TP song harder would probably end up increasing this effect.

On the other hand, now that subbies can access their own P-G-A-M-B scores on their songs, maybe it's time for the TP calculator to look at that too. Perhaps we should reward PA instead of FCs, i.e. award points based on the number of perfects rather than the score. It wouldn't be as simple of a system (since people with very bad FCs who can't re-FC the song might have to submit screenshots/replays to get the tier points they deserve) but it would probably end up being better at identifying the best players.

1.
The obvious difference is blve23 could play the song twice more and get clean FC with good PA while you can't. If he's too lazy to do it that's his problem and nobody else's. Even if he has extreme mental blocks, he could mash the part where he did and still get a better score than you.

No matter how you try and spin it, the better players will both PA better and mash better and just overall have better scores on songs and thus higher TPs. Better players are better. Period. If their scores and TPs are sub par for their skill level that reflects more on how much effort they decided to put into the game rather than the flaws of the TP system.

2.
Are you telling me I don't deserve my 7/9 TPs on DP because my computer lags and my PA is bad? Or are you telling me that people who have a ton of 5/5s deserve the same score I worked for despite the fact that they don't have anything near the reading ability or finger speed required for it? The only unfairly disadvantaged person is me. Not all the people with good PA who think they deserve high TPs just for having good PA.

[hi19hi19]

Re: TOP Players / Tier Requirements Thread - Updated 6/26/08

Hey, if you really can't combo a song that you can SDG in FFR, there's a major problem going on.




Lern2mash.


EDIT- I mean, with the obvious exceptions of Runny, CP, etc. Something like Ketsarku though, any time you have a mental block, just go nuts on the keys till you get to a spot you're okay at...

[jimerax]

Re: TOP Players / Tier Requirements Thread - Updated 6/26/08

We know FFR's scoring is combo based, and higher score is officially always better score on FFR.
If you have enough skill to get 6-1-2-4 or something on harder songs, just try to get FC with decent PA.

btw I won't include accomplishment tokens (like HWG) for req songs for an obvious reason.

[Shashakiro]

Re: TOP Players / Tier Requirements Thread - Updated 6/26/08

the system is fine as is now and fairly accurately ranks the top players who play all songs IMO, so why change it

new harder songs should be added for better accuracy, but that's it

[devonin]

Re: TOP Players / Tier Requirements Thread - Updated 6/26/08

As new harder songs get added, should easier songs be pulled from the list as being now too easy, and to keep the least from bloating?

[Shashakiro]

Re: TOP Players / Tier Requirements Thread - Updated 6/26/08

that's how it's always worked, dev...9's were on the list when it started, now it's up to high 10's and I imagine soon enough it'll be only 11's that make it.

[jimerax]

Re: TOP Players / Tier Requirements Thread - Updated 6/26/08

It will always have TOP 100 hardest songs for the reqs.

When more songs are added in the game the number of req songs will be raised a bit.