The Death Penalty

[devonin]

Re: The Death Penalty

- This man is not mentally unstable in any way whatsoever.
- This man has never met the people whom he acted upon therefore giving no prior reason for said actions
- This man had perfect means, and opportunity
- This man's motive was clear and precise, yet not mentally insane

His motive was clear and precise, but he had no reason to act? That does not sound even remotely mentally sane and stable to me.

I find your conditions to be mutually contradictory and thus while your example is perhaps a case where the death penalty is justified, your example is impossible, and thus meaningless in a discussion about the actual reality of whether the death penalty is justified.

[rzr]

Re: The Death Penalty

- This man's wife broke up with him that morning
- This man was fired the previous day
- This man was jumped and attacked

There, he had a bad day, that's why he did said actions. Nonetheless, you just admitted the death penalty would be warrented in such a scenario.

[ballaw hare]

Re: The Death Penalty

- This man's wife broke up with him that morning
- This man was fired the previous day
- This man was jumped and attacked

There, he had a bad day, that's why he did said actions. Nonetheless, you just admitted the death penalty would be warrented in such a scenario.

Nervous break down.

[rzr]

Re: The Death Penalty

Death penalty is still warranted.

[devonin]

Re: The Death Penalty

Your list of reasons have absolutely nowhere NEAR a justification for the actions you described the man doing.

If getting fired, mugged and dumped was solely enough to make him rape and murder children, cannibalize people and film it, then he ABSOLUTELY had additional problems.

Also "I just admitted that itw as warranted?" Yes, in a logically impossible scenario that I denied could ever actually exist.

I can show you a physics theory that works if you assume a frictionless universe. If that was my example, then yes my theory works given my set up, but since a frictionless universe doesn't exist and is impossible, the fact that if you assume it -is- possible my theory works doesn't make my theory correct.

Works in an impossible scenario != works.

Let me put it more simply: If your only scenario for where the death penalty is completely justified is a scenario that is impossible and contains contradictions, then you have failed miserably to show why the death penalty should ever be considered justified.

[DDRXTIIDX]

Re: The Death Penalty

There's also the matter of disguises. Visual evidence does not necessarily justify one's punishment. But then again, if the man himself did such crazy things, then the nervous breakdown is a possible cause. I mean, if getting videotaped in the bathroom completely ruins my day, what more by getting dumped, mugged and fired? Suicide is a completely sensible result, but as devonin said, there should have been a VERY huge loss to him for said person to rape, kill and etc.

Point is, becoming emotionally wracked is a possible cause for masochism, but not for homicide or possibly incest.

[Andrew 2 Perez]

Re: The Death Penalty

You know...I really don't understand why there would be a wait process for it. If they were convicted for death, the simple solution is to have a bailiff hold him down, and then have the judge pop a bullet or 2 to the guy/girl's head. No need for that fancy stuff.

[devonin]

Re: The Death Penalty

Because in cases where the death penalty is being sought, in order to try and minimize the chance of a false conviction, the court appeals process is very careful to give the defense time to continue looking for evidence to prove the innocence of their client.

The fact that there have been many executions that were proven to be false convictions in SPITE of that shows that even the time they get isn't necessarily long enough. Simply shooting them in the head the instant a guilty verdict comes down is an incredibly bad idea.

[ddr_f4n]

Re: The Death Penalty

IMO the death penalty is cruel and not needed in any way. It's just wrong to go out and kill another human being who either had a bad day or is mentally unstable. It's just unnecessary. Aren't we the same as the killer if we killed him?

If he had a bad day, and he went into some kind of mass murder, he needs to get over his problems and just get along with his life, and try to solve in some kind of peaceful manner. If he is unable to do so, then he's obviously mentally unstable, and just needs some consulting and help.

We can't go and kill a human being for his actions. Maybe a life-sentence in prison with no means of escape and scarce food, but enough to live. But death to someone, thinking that he deserved it is just inhuman. We cannot have control over their will by killing them. If they wanted to, they'd just do all of that, then kill themselves in the end, which definitely won't solve anything at all.

[Xx{Midday}xX]

Re: The Death Penalty

I think nihilistically. Killing is not a "crime", and I hate the idea of being (edited) subjected to abstract ideas like "ethics" and "morality."

I disagree with social standards. Life is not something that is different from anything else. It is not a "privilege" or a "miracle." It is just there, no different from anything else. The act of killing is of the same level as walking, breathing, or just about any other verb you can think of. Ethics and morals are just illusions created by emotional thinking. I hate it.

In essence, people have the potential to kill randomly, yet people form an establishment known as "civilization" which make us superior to those that are "uncivilized." Civilization is a retarded foundation based solely on our emotional thinking. It's completely inherent and illogical. I hate this world that I was born in.

[Lipidman]

Re: The Death Penalty

I think nihilistically. Killing is not a "crime", and I am not subjected to abstract ideas like "ethics" and "morality."

Killing is a crime because you are subjected to the abstract idea of "law".

[devonin]

Re: The Death Penalty

If you feel that ethics and morality aren't concepts that apply to you, why do you ever obey a law? Why not just take what you want from people who have it. If they try and stop you, kill them. These things aren't wrong, so why shouldn't you?

In the claimed absence of a belief in any kind of moral or ethical code, Fear of consequences is why you submit yourself to the law, and you only fear consequences because you are too weak to oppose them.

There are only two reasons to not do things that are illegal: You believe it is wrong to do them, or you are too weak to stand up to the consequences of doing them anyway, take your pick.

[Ruritsu]

Re: The Death Penalty

^Or you simply don't want to needlessly cause problems...

For example if you have full ability to steal from you friend and he won't be able to prove it. The only downside you lose a friend for some stuff. You don't fear any consequences and your not doing it due to some sort of moral code, you just don't want to do it...

[Xx{Midday}xX]

Re: The Death Penalty

Killing is a crime because you are subjected to the abstract idea of "law".

I believe law is the ideal representation of general ethics and morality. What else is law based on?

If you feel that ethics and morality aren't concepts that apply to you, why do you ever obey a law? Why not just take what you want from people who have it. If they try and stop you, kill them. These things aren't wrong, so why shouldn't you?

In the claimed absence of a belief in any kind of moral or ethical code, Fear of consequences is why you submit yourself to the law, and you only fear consequences because you are too weak to oppose them.

There are only two reasons to not do things that are illegal: You believe it is wrong to do them, or you are too weak to stand up to the consequences of doing them anyway, take your pick.

I pick the weak idea. Hence, I call myself subject to the title, loser at life. Meep, I deal with myself that way. To maintain things I desire without sufficient power, I have to subject myself to that stronger force. I'd rather obey something I don't want to than lose everything I have. I'm aware that I can't fight such an already well-stabilized and supported social system. I told you before, didn't I? I'm a loser. XD

This is one of the reasons I have an infatuation over anime and the internet. Different world, different reality. Dreams. These dreams are so powerful, to the point where I can almost give up this life for it. Death holds all the possibilities life denies. Then again, I'm too weak to conquer any fear whatsoever, let alone fear of death.

Also, ethics and morality seem to be a built-in mindset to human beings. I hate the feeling of "guilt" I feel when I do something "morally wrong." It's a frustrating contradiction. My mind believes that ethics and morality are unnecessary illusions, yet my body reacts to them in the manner most people do.

Haha, sorry, no need to derail any further from the topic, I guess.

[Lipidman]

Re: The Death Penalty

Do you hate the feeling of guilt or do you hate the fact that what you do is considered morally wrong. It looks like you're referring to the former, which is a fairly common attitude. If you meant the latter, then can you give us some basic examples?