TOP Players / Tier Requirements Thread - Updated 7/8/09

[sjoecool1991]

Re: TOP Players / Tier Requirements Thread

I don't really care about getting bonus points with my AAA count.
All I care about is scoring well on the songs on the Tier point list, and it just so happens that I have AAAd 15 of them, and blackflagged 4 others, so I am going to try and AAA those 4.
If I do get bonus points with my AAA count, then most of the AAAs will be on Challenging/Very Challenging songs, not stupid easy stuff.




PS: I cant AAA Skellybones because I cannot see the arrows at all.

[Kotarouchan]

Re: TOP Players / Tier Requirements Thread

I suggest 1x/1.25x and change the contrast of your monitor so that the difference of hues stand out

[[TeRa]]

Re: TOP Players / Tier Requirements Thread

the update is today right?
i remember reading somethign about halloween a while ago, not sure though.

if so, i just posted my list thingy in the bb thread.

[Rebirth0]

Re: TOP Players / Tier Requirements Thread

Just updated. Check the 2nd post

100 minutes of nonstop work

[dore]

Re: TOP Players / Tier Requirements Thread - Updated 10/31/07

w00t least AAAs in T1

[gnr61]

Re: TOP Players / Tier Requirements Thread

Honestly though, people are going to argue "Meh I don't want to whore," but then we risk making the list too small and/or too difficult for people to gain any points.

It's hard to numerically gauge the skill of lazy players who are talented at the game. That is where the system falls apart -- we have to make the list large enough so that we can get a decent picture given that all songs have been played. But it is that assumption that also breaks the system because not everyone plays all these songs.

The other issue is that if we were to make the list smaller, we risk excluding songs that may be good gauges. Say we didn't include new songs like Southern Cross, but someone manages to AAA it, but receives no tier points for it. This is obviously flawed.

So really, we have to ask ourselves where to draw the line.

In my opinion, I think the tier system is fine, in general. However, other games and sports don't always gauge skill by how well people fry the smaller fishes. Some people dominate the larger game and are obviously capable of dominating the lesser areas.

Therefore, I recommend that we split the tier system up into multiple counts. This way, for example, you could have the totals list like you do now (for statistics sake), but also have it divided up into the 4/5/6/7/8/9 groups. So, for example, the 8-Point Tier List would be a list of only 8-point songs. This allows people who are lazy but skilled to show that they are talented by only choosing the higher tiers to play, but also allows people of lesser skill to better see their progress in lesser tiers that they play. I haven't explained this well because it is late, but I feel like splitting up the list is a good way to both capture skill and help guard against the song-whoring issue. The general tier-rank would be derived from a weighted average of the tiers completed such that it is reasonable. Someone who ONLY tackles an 8-Point Tier List but does it well should have a higher status than someone who manages to clear out a few lower tiers. As a result, this would allow people who clear higher tiers to receive more relative points, but also rewards people for clearing more songs (only this time it has a lessened effect compared to how it is now, where a few easy songs will effortlessly overtake an 8 or 9-point song that wasn't achieved).

agree VERY much. would be a great idea. of course i ALSO think the tier system should have a scoring system more like the one used for my tournament, instead of just the FC or die system, but this would be very hard to implement i guess. The ultimate downfall of FFR i suppose is that a 10 good, 2 avmiss score on SP (and i have gotten similar scores with a good deal of consistency) is WAY worse than a 120 good, 20 boo score on SP.


Tier Points: 679 (665 + 14 for 166 AAAs)

7/7 - K8107 - AAA
6/6 - Cosmic Orchestra - AAA
6/6 - lolharp5000 - AAA
6/6 - {Midnight} - AAA
6/6 - Kakke Ecko - AAA
6/6 - The Brain of the Moon - AAA
6/6 - UNknown Girl - AAA
6/6 - Shihen - AAA
6/6 - Torinouta (Noise Rave Mix) - AAA
6/6 - Rondo Alla Turca V2 - 1 or fewer
5/5 - Synaxis Symphony - AAA
5/5 - Tambourin Chinois - AAA
5/5 - Mute City Remix - AAA
5/5 - The Five - AAA
5/5 - ViennaCore - AAA
5/5 - State of Emergency - AAA
5/5 - Color of Giggles - AAA
5/5 - P8107 - AAA
5/5 - Battle Ax - AAA
5/5 - Sunny Star Carnival - AAA
5/5 - Ride Out - AAA
5/5 - Amefuri Koneko - AAA
5/5 - Divinity - 1 or fewer
5/5 - Final Fantasy 3 Boss - AAA
5/5 - Dazzling Destiny - AAA
5/5 - Dazzling Soul - AAA
5/5 - HELLBEAT v2 - AAA
5/5 - Video Out A - AAA
5/5 - Ruins - AAA
5/5 - 20031023 - AAA
5/5 - Famouz - AAA
5/5 - Cutting Circles - AAA
5/5 - Carrousel Paradise - AAA
5/5 - Epic - AAA*
5/5 - dot death (Stealth Remix) - AAA
5/5 - Lovely Lovely Lovely - AAA
5/5 - Tribal Transcendency - AAA
5/5 - ASB - AAA
5/5 - Wish (For FFR) - AAA
4/4 - CIA Rave - AAA
4/4 - Neon-213 - AAA
4/4 - Secrets and Lies - AAA
4/4 - Endless Dream - AAA
4/4 - Seven - AAA
4/4 - the Dream of Scarlet - AAA
4/4 - Robotix - AAA
4/4 - Attack of One Minute - AAA
4/4 - Exciting Hyper Highspeed Star v2 - AAA
4/4 - ESC - Super Version - AAA*
4/4 - Gaussian Blur 3 - AAA
4/4 - Z - AAA
4/4 - Summer -Speedy Mix- - AAA
4/4 - Carol Megamix - AAA
4/4 - Tension - AAA
4/4 - Sensorium - AAA
4/4 - Mother Of God - AAA
4/4 - Etude To A Dragon - AAA
4/4 - Hyper Pressure - AAA
4/4 - MAX Forever - 2 or fewer
4/4 - Fantranstic - AAA
4/4 - Uber Rave V2 - AAA
4/4 - Deep Breath - AAA
4/4 - Playdoh - AAA
4/4 - Delirium - AAA
7/8 - Exciting Hyper Highspeed Star - Single Digit Good
7/8 - Nova Pulser - 4(11) or fewer
6/7 - Southern Cross - 5 or fewer
6/7 - None Would Escape - 5 or fewer
6/7 - Melonman's OP - 5 or fewer
6/7 - HELLBEAT - Single Digit Good (10)
6/7 - The Games We Played, Part 3 - 8 or fewer
6/7 - End Night - 5 or fewer
6/7 - Balloon Fever - 5 or fewer
6/7 - Turbulence - 4 or fewer
6/7 - Silence - 5 or fewer
5/6 - Over the Rave - 4 or fewer
5/6 - Adult's Sketchbook - 3 or fewer
5/6 - Otaku Speedvibe [Heavy] - 5 or fewer
5/6 - Szamar Madar - 4 or fewer
5/6 - Judgment Days - 3 or fewer
5/6 - Gaussian Blur 2 - 2 or fewer
5/6 - Aztec Templing (Techno-Titlan mix) - 3 or fewer*
5/6 - R176 - 5 or fewer
5/6 - Air - 5 or fewer
5/6 - {Frozen} - 3 or fewer
5/6 - Classical Insanity - 3 or fewer
5/6 - Coat Czech - 4 or fewer
5/6 - Gradeus - 2(4) or fewer*
5/6 - Legend - 3 or fewer
5/6 - Force Of Light - 4 or fewer
4/5 - StarmineX -HappyHyperStarmiX- - 5 or fewer
4/5 - BB Euro - 3 or fewer
4/5 - Cold Breath - 5 or fewer
4/5 - Mou Uta Shika Kikoenai - 4 or fewer
4/5 - Dokudenpa - 3 or fewer
4/5 - Idol (Aniko is Pojinju Mix) - 4 or fewer
4/5 - Takecore of Yourself - 5 or fewer
4/5 - Be Princess - 5 or fewer
4/5 - {Rose} - 5 or fewer
4/5 - The Games We Played, Part 4 - 4 or fewer
4/5 - Kick Your A - 4 or fewer
4/5 - Hungarian Dance #7 - 5 or fewer
4/5 - Evil Approaches - 3 or fewer
4/5 - Get Down - 5 or fewer
3/4 - GO! - 4 or fewer
3/4 - {Blaze} - 5 or fewer
3/4 - The Games We Played, Part 2 - 5 or fewer
3/4 - Visions (NRGyzd mix) - 3 or fewer
7/9 - Crowdpleaser - 1,400,000 or higher
6/8 - BB Evolution - 40 or fewer
6/8 - Rottel-da-station - 15 or fewer
5/7 - Flight of the Bumblebee - 60 or fewer
5/7 - Kyuin - 15 or fewer
5/7 - PLANETZ - 12 or fewer
5/7 - Sympathizer - 10 or fewer
5/7 - Rondo Alla Turca - 20 or fewer
5/7 - The Games We Played, Part 5 - 15 or fewer
5/7 - Jelly Roll Blues - 20 or fewer
4/6 - Abtrusity - Single Digit Good
4/6 - Uber Rave - 7 or fewer
4/6 - Love Cheat! - 15 or fewer
4/6 - Pretty Green Onions - 15 or fewer
4/6 - Splash Beats - 12 or fewer
3/5 - Klung Kung - 20 or fewer
2/4 - AAA - 20 or fewer
6/9 - Piano Etude (Demon Fire) - 2,200,000 or higher
5/8 - Gaussian Blur - 25 or fewer
5/8 - The Games We Played, Part 1 - 25(26) or fewer
5/8 - Lawn Wake IV - 30 or fewer
4/7 - For FFR - 25 or fewer
4/7 - Choprite - 40 or fewer
4/7 - Midnight Dragon - 30 or fewer
4/7 - Vertex BETA - 50 or fewer
0/4 - Duality - Requirements
5/9 - Otaku Speedvibe [Oni] - 80 or fewer
5/9 - Grand Gallop Chromatique - 2,100,000 or higher
4/8 - Turkish March - 60 or fewer
0/5 - Infernoplex - Requirements
0/5 - Wisdom - Requirements
0/5 - Innocent Decay - Requirements
4/9 - Molto Vivace - 1,200,000 or higher
4/9 - RunnyMorning (SGX MIX) - 1,300,000 or higher
0/6 - Monstrous Turtles! - Requirements
0/6 - Love Coloured Master Spark - Requirements
3/9 - BB Revenge - 2,600,000 or higher
0/7 - Epidermis - Requirements
2/9 - One Minute Waltz - 700,000 or higher
2/9 - Revolutionary Etude - 1,320,000 or higher
2/9 - Pants - 2,800,000 or higher
0/8 - AIM Anthem - Requirements
0/8 - Strangeprogram - Requirements
1/9 - Caprice - 1,100,000 or more

posting tier list to example my agreement with rubix lol. sry not trying to be annoying. as you can see, i did my best for a very long time on a lot of the 8 and 7 pointers, and even a few of the 9 pointers but i'll always get slaughtered by those few 4 and 5 pointers that i'll never feel the need to play. why should i sit down and play duality for 45 minutes so i dont get an avmiss at the end when obviously I am good enough to AAA it. epidermis i have 2-1-1-2 or something similar, but that is a lot worse than someone who good-attacks it for the FC.

and AAAs have nothing to do with skill, they should be saved for the importance of avg rank and have no effect on tier points. if any of those other songs were indicative of skill then they would be on the list.

also if GO and Visions and MAX Forever are hard enough for this list then so are Faces and Switchback =X

also am i still the only one who thinks the EHHS req's are too easy, ESPECIALLY when compared to other 8 pointers and several 7 pointers? :\

/rant

tl;dr version: rubix is right, bitch about easy songs, ehhs is still ****ed.

EDIT: LOL not on the top player list hahahaha. ps dore, id have a lot fewer AAAs if i bothered to hit tier 1 again :P

[MrRubix]

Re: TOP Players / Tier Requirements Thread - Updated 10/31/07

Agreed, gnr. IMO just because the current FFR scoring system bases itself off combo, the tier points don't necessarily have to follow suit. Combo is important but so is PA -- and since the FFR system has framer issues I would argue that we should weigh PA over combo. Someone who has great PA but avmisses somewhere is superior to someone who can combo but has far inferior PA. I think we can all agree on that. I mean, the other day I was doing the Silence 1100+ boo req for fun. If I can FC the song by just mashing -- then how can we argue that combo is indicative of skill under the current engine setups? Clearly precision is a more accurate gauge of skill, NOT combo. Yes I know that sometimes combo and poor PA can result in a lower score, but the point is that people can achieve higher tier points through strategic mashing of difficult sections and get a higher score with crappier PA just because of combo, when someone who is more precise but happens to avmiss here and there may not achieve as high a score despite the fact that they are more skilled, and therein lies the problem.

Therefore I think we should not only split up the lists based on difficulty ranks, but we should also customize each prerequisite off more specific criteria that isn't bound to combo. This would be a MUCH more accurate depiction of skill, and won't have nearly as heavy a bias towards those who simply play more songs -- it would allow the less frequent but skilled players to get up on the charts given a proper weighting system.

[Fantasticone]

Re: TOP Players / Tier Requirements Thread - Updated 10/31/07

I agree cause I average miss 4x worse then everyone and have better PA then alot of people.

[stlunatic0124]

Re: TOP Players / Tier Requirements Thread - Updated 10/31/07

FFR has avmisses. It's part of the game and isn't something only one person has to deal with - everyone gets them. Part of being good at FFR is getting good PA while not getting avmisses.

[MrRubix]

Re: TOP Players / Tier Requirements Thread - Updated 10/31/07

Certainly, but going by PA would be a more accurate gauge for skill if you consider the potential score spreads. I can show this to you mathematically if you'd like, in conjunction with reasonable thresholds of skill differences. I think the current system is heavily biased and doesn't truly account for skill correctly.

[gnr61]

Re: TOP Players / Tier Requirements Thread - Updated 10/31/07

FFR has avmisses. It's part of the game and isn't something only one person has to deal with - everyone gets them. Part of being good at FFR is getting good PA while not getting avmisses.

PART of the game certainly. But why should it be ALL of the game, like it is now. On songs that are difficult to FC or even just to rack up a high combo, PA matters little to not at all. a 740 combo on crowdpleaser is like automatically top 15, but if you look at someone like ieat who has 9 goods or something on it but 492 combo, you can tell who deserves the higher rank.

I can't FC BB Revenge or Pants because of avmisses or brainblocks, but I can PA both better (about 30 goods best on each) than most people can.

There has to be some kind of balance. ONE miss shouldn't turn your score into crap.

[flipsta_lombax]

Re: TOP Players / Tier Requirements Thread - Updated 10/31/07

Second least AAA's in Tier 4, but still going strong on PA. I'll thank good rounds of PFC-then-interrupted-by-avmisses sessions. Sure, I can improve/play the new release songs and whatnot, but I would bet that most of the people in Tier 4 has the potential to be much better. It's not always because they are lazy at playing, but it could also be the lack of time nowadays. Life calls and such. I can definitely get more AAA's since I still haven't improved/played easy songs I just don't feel like playing.

[jimerax]

Re: TOP Players / Tier Requirements Thread - Updated 10/31/07

Before making PA based point system, you need to fix avemiss and R1 scoring system first.

Also, cb count is important especially on hard levels.

[MrRubix]

Re: TOP Players / Tier Requirements Thread - Updated 10/31/07

"Before making PA based point system, you need to fix avemiss and R1 scoring system first."

What is your rationale behind this statement and why do you deem it superior to the alternative styles of judgment?

"Also, cb count is important especially on hard levels."

Certainly -- but this is why I think the reqs should be customized, not so combo-heavy.

[gnr61]

Re: TOP Players / Tier Requirements Thread - Updated 10/31/07

CB count is VERY different from max combo.
3 misses on pants + 1100 Combo on pants = bad.
20 misses on pants + 2300 Combo = good.
:ver flawed:
And exactly -why- does R1 scoring have anything to do with how tier points are calculated?