Batch judging suggestion

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  • leonid
    I am leonid
    FFR Simfile Author
    FFR Music Producer
    • Oct 2008
    • 8080

    #1

    Batch judging suggestion

    How about we follow the Official Rubik's Cube competition rule (Link Check 9f8)

    Here's how it works:
    Step 1: We want the average score of N judges on each submission.
    Step 2: Get N+2 judges rate the batch.
    Step 3: For each submission, omit the highest and the lowest scores and compute the average of the remaining scores.

    Pros:
    - Less bias
    - Less drama (If a submission gets a low score with this method, it means that more than one judge gave a low score, thus preventing typical "omg my fiel almost made it through if it weren't for <Insert a name here>" drama)

    Cons:
    - Needs more judges

    Thoughts?
    Last edited by leonid; 11-18-2011, 10:25 PM.



    Proud member of Team No
  • ninjaKIWI
    plain old ugly ass dumbas
    FFR Simfile Author
    • Aug 2006
    • 3304

    #2
    Re: Batch judging suggestion

    Fantastic idea reonid (o:
    Originally posted by Jewpinthethird
    "Hey Keywii" Said Foil in a raspy voice.
    "Hey Foil. What's that you got there?" inquired Keywii.
    "Oh, just my cock." Replied Foil.
    "That just will not do." was keywii's response as she lunged for the scissors, pulled the blades apart, and clamped them down on the base of foil's shaft. Blood start gushing out of the wound where his penis used to be.
    "NOOOOOOOOOOOO!" Yelled Foil in horror.
    "Don't worry. I'm a wizard" uttered Keywii. And with that, Foil's penis grew back.

    Comment

    • jimerax
      FFR Simfile Author
      FFR Music Producer
      • Nov 2003
      • 8185

      #3
      Re: Batch judging suggestion

      We did a similar thing on hard song batch, and it was my first trial.

      N = 5 required to do it properly, at least (pretty hard with group judgement).

      Comment

      • ninjaKIWI
        plain old ugly ass dumbas
        FFR Simfile Author
        • Aug 2006
        • 3304

        #4
        Re: Batch judging suggestion

        Might I propose ditching group judging, but at the same time to make up for it, maybe implement a batch total file limit?
        Originally posted by Jewpinthethird
        "Hey Keywii" Said Foil in a raspy voice.
        "Hey Foil. What's that you got there?" inquired Keywii.
        "Oh, just my cock." Replied Foil.
        "That just will not do." was keywii's response as she lunged for the scissors, pulled the blades apart, and clamped them down on the base of foil's shaft. Blood start gushing out of the wound where his penis used to be.
        "NOOOOOOOOOOOO!" Yelled Foil in horror.
        "Don't worry. I'm a wizard" uttered Keywii. And with that, Foil's penis grew back.

        Comment

        • stargroup100
          behanjc & me are <3'ers
          FFR Simfile Author
          FFR Music Producer
          • Jul 2006
          • 2051

          #5
          Re: Batch judging suggestion

          Back at KBO, what we did was we outlined what we wanted to see in the game very very specifically, so when a dispute did occur, we could almost "objectively" determine whether the reasons stated were valid.

          I don't know how you guys do your judging, but usually a disagreement within the judges is due to different standards. Standardizing what the you want to see in the game might eliminate a lot of the drama associated with the judging.
          Rhythm Simulation Guide
          Comments, criticism, suggestions, contributions, etc. are all welcome.

          Piano Etude Demon Fire sheet music

          Comment

          • qqwref
            stepmania archaeologist
            FFR Simfile Author
            • Aug 2005
            • 4092

            #6
            Re: Batch judging suggestion

            Originally posted by stargroup100
            I don't know how you guys do your judging, but usually a disagreement within the judges is due to different standards. Standardizing what the you want to see in the game might eliminate a lot of the drama associated with the judging.
            Yeah, this. I've tried to tune my judging standards to FFR - comparing to the kind of files in FFR rather than the kind I see in SM, considering comboability when I normally wouldn't, putting less emphasis on careful sync because of 30 fps, and so on. I think putting something vaguely like this in writing would help reduce feelings of unfairness, as a low grade would specifically mean "this chart is not suitable for FFR" rather than the "I don't like this file/song/cut/stepartist/difficulty" that we sometimes see now.
            Best AAA: Policy In The Sky [Oni] (81)
            Best SDG: PANTS (86)
            Best FC: Future Invasion (93)

            Comment

            • rushyrulz
              Digital Dancing!
              FFR Simfile Author
              FFR Music Producer
              • Feb 2006
              • 12985

              #7
              Re: Batch judging suggestion

              this has been suggested before and the main argument was that 2 judges' notes were getting thrown out for nothing. Boo hoo, this would be an excellent system if judges weren't so stubborn.


              Comment

              • hi19hi19
                lol happy
                FFR Simfile Author
                • Oct 2005
                • 12194

                #8
                Re: Batch judging suggestion

                Originally posted by rushyrulz
                this has been suggested before and the main argument was that 2 judges' notes were getting thrown out for nothing. Boo hoo, this would be an excellent system if judges weren't so stubborn.
                The notes aren't getting thrown out, the ratings are. The notes will still there and people can see the most glowing praise and the most scathing review in text, but the ratings wouldn't count.
                idk why the judges would care to be honest. I wouldn't...


                Comment

                • foilman8805
                  smoke wheat hail satin
                  FFR Simfile Author
                  • Sep 2006
                  • 5704

                  #9
                  Re: Batch judging suggestion

                  Sometimes you're statistically relevant, other times you're not -- and if you take it from that perspective, the rating is still important because you don't know when or where you'll be relevant/irrelevant. Though the sample size of judges is small, this is effectively eliminating outliers, which is a very common statistical practice. It doesn't nullify a review as it's still intact with the judge's thoughts/concerns and the artist gets to read them (like hi19 said). A pool of 5 judges is the bare minimum to make any kind of statistical judging worthwhile, imo. If at all possible, the number of judges should be increased.
                  Last edited by foilman8805; 11-19-2011, 12:08 AM.

                  Comment

                  • stargroup100
                    behanjc & me are <3'ers
                    FFR Simfile Author
                    FFR Music Producer
                    • Jul 2006
                    • 2051

                    #10
                    Re: Batch judging suggestion

                    This isn't the World Series of FFR Charting, you don't really need 13095 judges to figure out whether a chart is appropriate for a game.
                    Rhythm Simulation Guide
                    Comments, criticism, suggestions, contributions, etc. are all welcome.

                    Piano Etude Demon Fire sheet music

                    Comment

                    • who_cares973
                      FFR Player
                      • Aug 2006
                      • 15407

                      #11
                      Re: Batch judging suggestion

                      Lets make a world series of ffr charting

                      I liked the turnout for the hard batch judging method and I think we should stick to it

                      Comment

                      • stargroup100
                        behanjc & me are <3'ers
                        FFR Simfile Author
                        FFR Music Producer
                        • Jul 2006
                        • 2051

                        #12
                        Re: Batch judging suggestion

                        It's just that I find it ironic that you guys take this so seriously and yet you don't take it seriously.

                        Like, if you're serious about judging enough that you have to have a minimum N number of judges with organized comments and a point/qualification system, it seems to make sense that you really should standardize your criteria and objectively figure out what you're aiming for in this game.
                        Rhythm Simulation Guide
                        Comments, criticism, suggestions, contributions, etc. are all welcome.

                        Piano Etude Demon Fire sheet music

                        Comment

                        • ScarletSky
                          FFR Veteran
                          • Jan 2011
                          • 1811

                          #13
                          Re: Batch judging suggestion

                          Ummmmm yea, I'ma stay outa this one.

                          Comment

                          • who_cares973
                            FFR Player
                            • Aug 2006
                            • 15407

                            #14
                            Re: Batch judging suggestion

                            The thing is St no one wants to hurt anyone's feeling. People want the batch to be open to anyone and any kind of file. The problem with this though is that people use their own criteria which is sometimes higher than others which leads to the judgements we see. I agree though there should be something to go off of it would resolve a lot of the problems. More on this when I'm not on my phone

                            Comment

                            • foilman8805
                              smoke wheat hail satin
                              FFR Simfile Author
                              • Sep 2006
                              • 5704

                              #15
                              Re: Batch judging suggestion

                              Originally posted by stargroup100
                              This isn't the World Series of FFR Charting, you don't really need 13095 judges to figure out whether a chart is appropriate for a game.
                              Don't be a ****ing shithead. You know what I'm trying to say. 2 or 3 more judges is adequate.

                              Comment

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