How the tournament should have gone.

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  • tj28
    FFR Player
    • Nov 2007
    • 201

    #1

    How the tournament should have gone.

    My idea is 'mobile divisions'.

    Have about 10 divisions. Initial placement will be as usual; placed by levelrank/tier points.

    But, these divisions move. Players will be moved up and down divisions throughout the tournament based on their current skill level.

    If player A does significantly better in D6 than players B and C, then player A will be moved to a higher division (D7/D8).

    Anti-Sandbagging:
    If you submit a score just good enough to be above the cutoff, then you risk getting supped at the last minute. If you post a score significantly lower than the skill level you were placed at to go down a division, you wouldn't do so. (If you had VC AAAs when initially placed and you suddenly couldn't FC a C, you wouldn't be moved down.)
    It would be harder to go down than up, which will mean many of the players will be in high divisions by the end. Remember that D1 was a huge division though, non-BS D1 players can actually participate in the lowest divisions.

    Anti-Misplacement:
    If you are initially placed too high, and genuinely aren't at that skill level, you can be moved down if seen fit. A true D3 player will stay at D3 the entire tournament, playing other D3 players and a potential BS'er for one round.

    Prizes:
    1st to all ten divisions gets vROFL, and whatever you want to do with credits/t-shirts is up to the host.

    Cons:
    Lowest divisions will be nearly empty by the end.
    BS'ers could still try to stay in low divisions, but it won't be nearly as easy.

    This may not be in the right section, so move if required.

    Open to all questions/ideas/comments.
    BFs to fix: Disconnected Hardkore, Pwntendo, {Midnight}
  • who_cares973
    FFR Player
    • Aug 2006
    • 15407

    #2
    Re: How the tournament should of went.

    I was expecting a complain thread but I like this idea

    Comment

    • Sprite-
      HAVE ME WITH VODKA
      FFR Simfile Author
      • Aug 2005
      • 7316

      #3
      Re: How the tournament should of went.

      This is basically the same thing as the OOL..

      Comment

      • xBBx Takedown
        FFR Veteran
        • Sep 2007
        • 2627

        #4
        Re: How the tournament should of went.

        I like this idea TJ. Excellent excellent idea.
        Dragons Fury: Custom Tournament #5-1st Place(D3B)
        Best FMO Score-Battle Theme #37(8.0.0.1)
        Best AAA-Sword Strike
        Best BF-Be Princess and Mute City Remix

        Comment

        • tj28
          FFR Player
          • Nov 2007
          • 201

          #5
          Re: How the tournament should of went.

          Originally posted by Sprite-
          This is basically the same thing as the OOL..
          Similar, but it wouldn't be based on just the scores submitted and the top players in that division.

          In the OOL the top players would always move up, and the bottom players would always go down. This isn't applied here.

          Same general idea though.
          BFs to fix: Disconnected Hardkore, Pwntendo, {Midnight}

          Comment

          • Oni-Paranoia
            No fucks
            • Dec 2006
            • 2440

            #6
            Re: How the tournament should of went.

            This idea is 'okay' but it has many flaws..

            The point of a tournament is to win. If your in a certain division, that is where you will stay for the remainder and your goal is to be the best out of everyone in that division. This idea defeats that whole purpose.

            Expert Players would shift according to the song choice rather than skill. For example, I can SDG 'Ketsarku Mozgalom' (FGO) but I can't break 15 goods on 4 Chord Touhou (FMO).. I can do Burst > JS (JumpStream)..

            For the other divisions it would be a matter of how lucky you get by barely beating the person behind you and not being thrown into another division. Also, any player who gets a 'Skill Boost' would be screwed since they would be moved up but not be good enough to place well in that division..

            P.s. Overall, there just needs to be a D6. I'm still being placed in D5 and I can't really beat any of the top D4 players (score wise). 2 Years ago AAAing an FGO was 'OMG' now it's 'meh'

            Comment

            • devonin
              Very Grave Indeed
              Event Staff
              FFR Simfile Author
              • Apr 2004
              • 10120

              #7
              Re: How the tournament should of went.

              Adding an extra division wouldn't make this problem any better whatsoever. It either splits D5 into two parts, or it screws over some of the top of D4 by putting them in D5 while a bunch of D5 went into D6.

              As for the "mobile" divisions. Are people ever actually eliminated in that plan of yours? If I score horribly, I get moved down a division...that means I don't get eliminated? WHat if I go from D4 to D3 in say, round 6. What place am I in in D3? Based only on my scores obtained after I get moved down?

              Comment

              • tj28
                FFR Player
                • Nov 2007
                • 201

                #8
                Re: How the tournament should of went.

                Originally posted by Oni-Paranoia
                This idea is 'okay' but it has many flaws..

                The point of a tournament is to win. If your in a certain division, that is where you will stay for the remainder and your goal is to be the best out of everyone in that division. This idea defeats that whole purpose.

                Expert Players would shift according to the song choice rather than skill. For example, I can SDG 'Ketsarku Mozgalom' (FGO) but I can't break 15 goods on 4 Chord Touhou (FMO).. I can do Burst > JS (JumpStream)..

                For the other divisions it would be a matter of how lucky you get by barely beating the person behind you and not being thrown into another division. Also, any player who gets a 'Skill Boost' would be screwed since they would be moved up but not be good enough to place well in that division..

                P.s. Overall, there just needs to be a D6. I'm still being placed in D5 and I can't really beat any of the top D4 players (score wise). 2 Years ago AAAing an FGO was 'OMG' now it's 'meh'
                It wouldn't be that easy to move up in ranks, doing good in one song won't bump you up. Consistently doing better than the rest will.

                If you got a 'skill boost' then you would do well in a division above, as the divisions (skill-wise) are tight and you wouldn't be placed in a division you'd do horrible in.

                Remember a jump from D3-D4 in this tournament wouldn't be nearly the same as jumping from D3-D4 in the current style.
                BFs to fix: Disconnected Hardkore, Pwntendo, {Midnight}

                Comment

                • devonin
                  Very Grave Indeed
                  Event Staff
                  FFR Simfile Author
                  • Apr 2004
                  • 10120

                  #9
                  Re: How the tournament should of went.

                  So what you're saying is "If you're winning, you're in the wrong division and need to be put to where you aren't winning anymore"

                  Comment

                  • tj28
                    FFR Player
                    • Nov 2007
                    • 201

                    #10
                    Re: How the tournament should of went.

                    Originally posted by devonin
                    Adding an extra division wouldn't make this problem any better whatsoever. It either splits D5 into two parts, or it screws over some of the top of D4 by putting them in D5 while a bunch of D5 went into D6.

                    As for the "mobile" divisions. Are people ever actually eliminated in that plan of yours? If I score horribly, I get moved down a division...that means I don't get eliminated? WHat if I go from D4 to D3 in say, round 6. What place am I in in D3? Based only on my scores obtained after I get moved down?
                    Yes there would be cutoffs.
                    As for the movement in later rounds, if you were moved from D4 to D3 you would place at the bottom of the current alive players, and bump eliminated players down in rank.
                    The rankings wouldn't matter much though, as only first place would receive vROFL.

                    Also, lower divisions (D1/D2) shouldn't get vROFL in this style. They wouldn't (shouldn't ) have the skill to play the song anyway, so a credit reward would be used instead.
                    This brings the vROFL giveaway back down to 8 players, and may cutoff some BS'ers.
                    BFs to fix: Disconnected Hardkore, Pwntendo, {Midnight}

                    Comment

                    • devonin
                      Very Grave Indeed
                      Event Staff
                      FFR Simfile Author
                      • Apr 2004
                      • 10120

                      #11
                      Re: How the tournament should of went.

                      So if you're in D4 and doing poorly, you get moved to the BOTTOM of the division below you? I'm assuming given how you're talking here, that scoring and ranking are done as a points-earned system, since with no eliminations, you can't just rank people by the score they -just- got like you do in an elimination tourney.

                      Comment

                      • tj28
                        FFR Player
                        • Nov 2007
                        • 201

                        #12
                        Re: How the tournament should of went.

                        Originally posted by devonin
                        So what you're saying is "If you're winning, you're in the wrong division and need to be put to where you aren't winning anymore"
                        I'm saying "If you're winning by a landslide and are much better than your division, you are bumped up for a better challenge."

                        The leaders of the round should only be leading with a few less goods, not insanely better.
                        BFs to fix: Disconnected Hardkore, Pwntendo, {Midnight}

                        Comment

                        • devonin
                          Very Grave Indeed
                          Event Staff
                          FFR Simfile Author
                          • Apr 2004
                          • 10120

                          #13
                          Re: How the tournament should of went.

                          But in that case, how do you determine, say, whether I'm too good for my division, or just whether my division has many people placed too high?

                          As in, what are your standards for divisions to determine whether it's a case of good people needing to go up, or bad people needing to go down?

                          Also, all you'd be creating is a situation where someone tries to sup the current top score by as little as possible, and then sits on it until someone does the same to them. There's no benefit to working your ass off to try and get that AAA since if you do that more than others in your division, you'll get moved up to where you'll lose.

                          Also, fixed the horrendous grammar in the thread title. It was making me cringe every time I saw it.

                          Comment

                          • tj28
                            FFR Player
                            • Nov 2007
                            • 201

                            #14
                            Re: How the tournament should of went.

                            Originally posted by devonin
                            So if you're in D4 and doing poorly, you get moved to the BOTTOM of the division below you? I'm assuming given how you're talking here, that scoring and ranking are done as a points-earned system, since with no eliminations, you can't just rank people by the score they -just- got like you do in an elimination tourney.
                            Moving players wouldn't be done freely, if you did poorly in D4, you would join the current 'survivors' of D3 the next round, be placed one rank below them, and bump the eliminated players down.

                            The problem with a points-earned system is that you could do good enough in D1 and rack up points (opponents wouldn't be as hard to overtake at that level), then get bumped to D2/D3 with more points than the players who were working hard the entire tournament.
                            BFs to fix: Disconnected Hardkore, Pwntendo, {Midnight}

                            Comment

                            • devonin
                              Very Grave Indeed
                              Event Staff
                              FFR Simfile Author
                              • Apr 2004
                              • 10120

                              #15
                              Re: How the tournament should have gone.

                              Bump the eliminated players down? What does that even mean? Now they're eliminated in division 2 instead of eliminated in division 3?

                              Comment

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