Melodies: Tips, Tricks, and Concepts

Re: Melodies: Tips, Tricks, and Concepts

This is sexy, and true.

Re: Melodies: Tips, Tricks, and Concepts

The theme to first movement of Rachmaninoff's Third Piano Concerto is not repetitive (or at least subtly so) and it is perhaps one of the greatest pieces of all time.

Also, the Dies Irae isn't repetitive but it makes Berlioz's Symphonie Fantastique... well, fantastique.

There are plenty more examples of melodies that aren't repetitive that have lasting power.

Edit: sorry thought this was a general advice thread.

My advice with melodies is... none. Just make whatever works. I've made a melody that's chock full of diminished triad arpeggios. In the span of two different measures, the melody uses 10 of 12 notes in the chromatic scale. And it works quite well for my purposes. And I don't repeat it; it's just a somewhat atonal buildup to a part where the strings section in unison* goes up the melodic minor scale a few times. And oh hey it's very memorable.

If you try to apply strict rules to making melodies, you'll come off short. Usually when you're making a melody, it'll either be the result of a cool rhythm, a cool chord progression, somewhat of a musical meme you pulled from another piece, or just something you made completely off the top of your head. If it works, hey, it works, and you should know. Any musician worth his salt should know when a melody works, and doesn't need a checklist. And I doubt that you can really take a "bad idea" and transform it with the work of a checklist. Just... doesn't seem to work like that.

The only advice I could ever give toward melodies pertains to general music theory. Just learn it, and you'll be able to manipulate melodies like crazy. I totally recommend Walter Piston's Harmony.

*actually I'm not sure about the unison part; still playing around with the piece, but that's probably what I'm going to go with.

Re: Melodies: Tips, Tricks, and Concepts

The sad thing about Melodies is that so many people have so many of them, and so few of those people have a good way of recording them. :[

I have SO many melodies, but no VSTi or VSTs to match what they sound like in my head.

Re: Melodies: Tips, Tricks, and Concepts

kgz, your rules are good for pop music, but generally not very good advice. I mean, it's good advice, but everyone has their own rules when making their own melodies

melodies can be more of sound effects, a line you can sing, something unusual to fit a certain mood, or a totally show-offy solo. there are no rules haha

Re: Melodies: Tips, Tricks, and Concepts

The main reason is that classical music is actually very repetitive, just not in the "trance" sense of looping a sample over and over for two minutes.

Take Maurice Ravel's Pavane Pour Un Infante Defunte (.pdf). The main melody is very memorable, even considering that a person who listens to the whole piece will hear it 3 times... yet it's long: about 1 minute. One reason is because of the use of a handy dandy tool called the sequence. Bluntly put, the first measure repeats a lot, just in different modes. And in measures 4 and 5, it also kind of repeats.

There are plenty more pieces that make wonderful use of the sequence. Rachmaninoff's Symphony No. 2, movement 3. The epic-as-hell opening melody is itself comprised of a sequence played 3 times. This is less subtle, but it's still fantastically done.

The greatest example, without a doubt, is the first movement of Beethoven's Symphony No. 5. That is perhaps the best use of the sequence ever and you're a fool to disagree. (I've actually been meaning to do an analysis of this piece. I reaaaallly should.)

Here's what my music theory text has to say about sequences:

All very true.

Sequences are just part of the reason. Melodies that extend a full 16 measures may be: repeated numerous times in a piece (but spread out), tossed around voices, orchestrated differently upon repetitions, sped up, slowed down, replayed in different keys, and even harmonized completely differently. Symphony Fantastique's fifth movement makes wonderful use of a lot of that with the Dies Irae. Rhapsody in Blue is also a good example of this.

A piece may progress from melody to melody while revolving around a main theme, and there may be a similarity in all of the melodies. Dvorak's Symphony No. 9 is clearly the best example of a piece loaded to the brim with all sorts of melodies.

Lastly, the melodies themselves are just memorable as is. Some reasons are: rhythmic repetitions in the various parts, "call and response," and some just plain 'ol work.

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Advice:

1) Get a mic for the computer, learn how to sing, record, and then match pitches later.

2) Learn music theory. Or if you've already learned music theory, start applying it. It's actually a lot harder than it sounds IMO... it took my theory teacher forever to drill in our heads how some very common progressions sound. Still, it's really important, especially if you're not at home and you just thought of a melody and you need to write it down. It's happened to me plenty of times in the airport.

Re: Melodies: Tips, Tricks, and Concepts

I beg to differ. Tension, the release and build of is what defines a song and makes it memorable--not the notes included within.

If you don't really understand the concept, I'd be more than happy to explain it to you. Perhaps it is something that is easier for me to understand, having played rhythm instruments for the last 15 years, but that is how I was taught to hear music, not so much the notes.

Re: Melodies: Tips, Tricks, and Concepts

It goes hand-in-hand with people remembering treble parts better than bass parts on a piano.

Re: Melodies: Tips, Tricks, and Concepts


You back peddle on yourself here and go from countering my argument to essentially agreeing with it. So which is it going to be?

You can play the same melody, once mechanical, and the other involving rhythmic release and build of tension into it, and it will be better. There's really no way around it.

The whole point I am trying to get across is what notes you hit are really less important than how you arrange it.

Re: Melodies: Tips, Tricks, and Concepts

Rise and fall, right? You have a root note..the next, up or down. A rise, or a fall. Your scales, knowledge, etc, all build on this idea that they are connected. Even hitting the same note over creates some kind of tension. It's inescapable.

What you are doing and is influencing that decision is what is being developed or resolved. It is part of how you hear it whether you are actively pursuing it or not. Building up, building down. Play a scale and don't hit the last note. The feeling inside, an incompleteness. The pause between, it's all feeding. It is, quite literally, everywhere. It is part of an individual melody of a song, the drums, it is part of the overall song dynamics.

When I DJ, the songs I mix, are selected for a very specific reason. Can you guess why? The rise and fall, once again. Release and build. This idea, can encompass entire sets, symphonies, play lists on an mp3 player.

Once you get out of the mode of thinking you are currently in, and break away, I think you will come back and hear new things in songs that you haven't heard before and better be able to apply the knowledge you already have.

Re: Melodies: Tips, Tricks, and Concepts

rofl you guys

tension is relative. you gotta define it first haha. it can mean the exciting feel of hanging on your seat or the manipulation of the expression in order to make people want to continue listening so that they can feel complete

yes melody is meat. sauce is more important than meat. even if your meat is amazing, lack of sauce TOTALLY kills it. I don't know about you, but I'd rather drink a bottle of pasta sauce than eat rotten meat lol

purpose of song varies. in kgz's case, it's to make the music memorable. some people might want to convey something such as an idea, concept, or tangible object; others may choose to impress by making the song ridiculous; yet others might just want to make it artistic and stuff

you guys are arguing over very general topics haha. this isn't going to go anywhere

Re: Melodies: Tips, Tricks, and Concepts

PROTIP:


As long as you follow the chord progression of Pachabel's Canon, you win at songwriting. This is clearly true because of all the gazzillionaire emo rock bands that all just play pachabel a bunch of times then start whining about how they hate their ex girlfriends or something

Re: Melodies: Tips, Tricks, and Concepts

Yeah, I was about to post something similar. It's also why kgz can't figure out why classical songs don't have simple melodies.

Re: Melodies: Tips, Tricks, and Concepts

QFT

I don't want to hear a song with no set key, random notes, or just one note. I want to hear a beautiful melody.

You can either leave it simple and let the listener enjoy just the melody, or you can give it tension, making it dramatic.

You can't have a good song with just a melody.
You can't have a good song with just tension.

You both make amazing music, but they're very different styles.
FGJ!, nobody can really expect you to agree, since D&B is less melody-oriented than most music. Don't get me wrong though, I love D&B.

Re: Melodies: Tips, Tricks, and Concepts

Theme from Jaws. That's like the definition of tension and it's all rhythm. And everyone remembers it even though it has two notes. It's not different styles that makes me not agree with him. It's just I believe he is fundamentally deficient.

Re: Melodies: Tips, Tricks, and Concepts

tension doesn't have to come from the special effects and volume and stuff. tension can be created simply by placing the melody in the right spot and using the right chord progressions.

see battle of exdeath