Melodies: Tips, Tricks, and Concepts

[tha Guardians]

Re: Melodies: Tips, Tricks, and Concepts

Theme from Jaws. That's like the definition of tension and it's all rhythm. And everyone remembers it even though it has two notes. It's not different styles that makes me not agree with him. It's just I believe he is fundamentally deficient.

True. I remember it going Duh-DUHN, Duh-DUHN, but I have no idea at what rate it crescendos, accelerandos, or how many counts it is.

Tension is memorable, but in my experience, melody is what makes a song stick in your head. I can remember your songs 5 minutes after playing them. I can remember KgZ's songs hours after playing them. I love both styles of music, it's just easier to replay KgZ's songs in my head. Memorable and good don't always go hand in hand, though.

I have trouble remembering your music, but I love it regardless.
If I hear Yellow Submarine, it's stuck in my head for weeks. I absolutely despise the song, and it drives me crazy.

[tha Guardians]

Re: Melodies: Tips, Tricks, and Concepts

^Yes.^
It's probably your most memorable song.

[lord_carbo]

Re: Melodies: Tips, Tricks, and Concepts

Theme from Jaws.

Which is totally reminiscent of Dvorak's 6th symphony, 3rd movement (or alternatively his 9th symphony, 4th movement... composers repeat ideas a lot).

This post brought to you by Lord Carbo and the "Start Listening To Classical Right Now" Foundation!

If this is the case, then it's fair to say that tension is important in building a good melody.


I would like spook to go into more detail what me means by "tension".

Staying on the dominant chord for 20 measures straight.

[Verruckter]

Re: Melodies: Tips, Tricks, and Concepts

I always believed that melody was the key factor in music, in which it could make a song from something average, to something amazing, if done properly. The reason for this is because the melody is the signature way of remembering a song, regardless if you like it or not. Many musicians (including myself) can have an extremely hard time writing a good solid melody, and this thread will hopefully help you.

These are all my ideas, however if you have anything you would like to add, feel free to do so.

1.) A melody should be simple. Lets think about something like "marry little had a lamb". There's only 3 notes, either ascending, descending, or consecutively. Why do so many people (including infants) remember the melody? Because it's simple. Many lullabies use this system in order for people to remember the song, which is why it is so popular. To use in a more modern sense, try listening to the notes of a typical "generic" song, from a vocalist. You will notice that in many songs, vocalists will sing the same note numerous times, while singing different words. The system of this allows people to remember the tune, because of the simplicity of the melody.

While being the most effective, simplicity doesn't always mean better. A complex melody that's also good to hear is always something to be proud of. Even if you the listener must listen to it a few times before assimilating it. Also, never let a note last 4 beats EVER - instead complete it by either separating it into smaller beats or adding another instrument to complete it (e.g. an arpeggio in the background).

2.) Repetitive sequences of a melody. While relating to the first point, this is also extremely important. A repetitive sequence will allow the melody to be remembered faster, because the complexity is almost non-existent. This is why the chorus of a song is known to be the most memorable part of a song.

Only repeat a segment because you need to. Don't repeat it because you run out of ideas: it becomes boring quickly.

3.)Expression within note placement. I've always believed a good melody has a certain system to how it's constructed. There are 3 kinds of notes: Rhythmic, long, and bridge (note: these are just my terms, I'm sure there is a more specific technical term out there). A rhythmic note implies that the same note is played consecutively in some sort of rhythm. This benefits to the simplicity of a melody. A long note creates powerful expression and feeling. While not usually as memorable, this however creates a nice bold expression, and is usually played in the highest climax of a song, to enhance the mood. A bridge note is usually a combination of notes in a quick sequence that is usually ascending or descending in pattern. Although this can make a melody more complex, this often makes a melody more interesting and diverse.

Honestly, you shouldn't even have to think about this. If you calculate your melodies, it will show. If you use this method over and over again, your music will be repetitive, bland and boring.

4.)Using scales. Many old songs, including folks and marches primarily use scales, either ascending or descending. While you might not think that using so many notes at once is simplistic, in a way it is. People seem to have a good concept of how a scale should sound, even if they aren't musically inclined; the brain just notices it, usually through ear training by listening to a vast amount of music.

This is good tip but you shouldn't have to worry about scales anyways, you should just generally know what the notes are in that scale (without necessarely checking them out) and make a melody out of that. But really, you don't need scales to compose.

EDIT: I've also found myself that I create better results if I sing or hum out a melody improvising.

Best tip in this post.

In all honesty, I believe music should be spontaneous, not calcutlated. Improvise. Try. Stop. Retry. That's how you do it.

[Verruckter]

Re: Melodies: Tips, Tricks, and Concepts

If that's the case, then why does it seem that many people have a very difficult time composing a good melody?

Many people don't think it about when they compose a melody. They just play it out as they seem fit, and there's never anything wrong with that. Sometimes though when you're stuck, it's a good idea to know what you should think of, if such a problem occurs.

Simply because they don't LISTEN to the music they hear. They don't understand it. They just try a melody without really knowing what music is about, how it all works.

You have to know a few things about the music, but when it comes down to composing, that knowledge will become superfluous, and you'll just let the concept of music that you've acquired take over.

My best tip to understand music: listen to it, but listen to all the instruments, separately. Listen to lots of complex music. Lots and lots and lots. Classical, prog rock/metal, jazz, etc. They will greatly affect your understanding of music.

EDIT: Also, some people are more apt at composing melodies than other. Some people call it talent, I call it genetics.

EDIT2: Thought I might add this:

You can't have a good song with just a melody.
You can't have a good song with just tension.

I don't think you understand the concept of musical tension... ANY melody will have tension. That's how music works. That's how it pleases the ear. There is no way around it. So it's irrelevant to say you can't have a good song with just tension because it means.. basically nothing.

[SpookG]

Re: Melodies: Tips, Tricks, and Concepts

I have always thought that music theory is supposed to be used to describe music, not create it.

I really don't know of a way to textually explain it to you KgZ in a way you will understand, and if that incites more replies by Tha Guardians going "YEAH!" to whatever response you two cuddle hump to concoct then so be it. If you seriously want to know I can explain it the way it was taught to me, through audio example. You will have to message me off the forums for that.

I don't know what it is like to remember a single melody so when you talk about it I can't comprehend such limited scope. I either remember an entire song verbatim or nothing at all. That should accurately illuminate what value it has on me compared to any other aspect.

I do remember how every piece of music makes me feel. That stays with me long after I have forgotten the music and is what I seek to recapture when I compose. That emotion, I believe, is a byproduct of tension. That is a much more macro example, but it intertwines and exists within each independent element and ultimately what creates the energy that I connect to and carry with me after the song is over.

Anyways..

So here's the deal with Secret Zombie Room:

SZR has been around so long, has a wonderfully fun stepfile to play, means a lot to the older FFR community, and that has taken what is probably a pretty crappy song and made it enduring. And to believe that is all my doing strikes me as a rather incomplete statement of fact considering I had nothing to do with those elements of its legacy.

SZR is a failed attempted to play the Figaro brothers coin song in Final Fantasy VI from memory, and in my frustration I just wrote something else.

I get more e-mails about how much better Save Me and Zanzibar Green is than SZR than how good SZR song is. And there is an entire crowd that knows me for other songs all together. They don't really like SZR at all. I tend to agree with them. It's not that great. I've considered remixing it, have attempted to and failed. You can't remix perfection. Apparently I had perfected Crap.

[tha Guardians]

Re: Melodies: Tips, Tricks, and Concepts

I really don't know of a way to textually explain it to you KgZ in a way you will understand, and if that incites more replies by Tha Guardians going "YEAH!" to whatever response you two cuddle hump to concoct then so be it.

xD
You're awesome.

To Verruckter, that was kinda my point.

[lord_carbo]

Re: Melodies: Tips, Tricks, and Concepts

I have always thought that music theory is supposed to be used to describe music, not create it.

No no no; it does both.

[Verruckter]

Re: Melodies: Tips, Tricks, and Concepts

No no no; it does both.

Theory should only serve to create indirectly. (imo)

[lord_carbo]

Re: Melodies: Tips, Tricks, and Concepts

I use theory mostly to touch up my melodies (especially in the case of arpeggios) and create harmony.

[DJSBX]

Re: Melodies: Tips, Tricks, and Concepts

haha.. wow.. Your last 2 paragraphs had something nice going for them. Not taking a stab at somebody in this thread... untill the last sentence. I love it when somebody always has to have the last word.

Yea.. I contribute nothing to this thread. I agree/disagree with things said here, I dont feel the need to add anything.

[DJSBX]

Re: Melodies: Tips, Tricks, and Concepts

lol yea I understand. I just found it funny how at the end you just threw it in there :P

[Telliath]

Re: Melodies: Tips, Tricks, and Concepts

Sorry to say but I find that these rules don't apply to me. Well, of course they do... but what I'm saying is I can easily say that my techno piece following the techno rules is a drum and bass song. I don't have to listen to any of those things. But essentially it doesn't matter if you follower the rules or not, as long as you appeal to people. If my seemingly-DnB techno song is good, but not following these rules, then what's the problem?

[tha Guardians]

Re: Melodies: Tips, Tricks, and Concepts

Sorry to say but I find that these rules don't apply to me. Well, of course they do... but what I'm saying is I can easily say that my techno piece following the techno rules is a drum and bass song. I don't have to listen to any of those things. But essentially it doesn't matter if you follower the rules or not, as long as you appeal to people. If my seemingly-DnB techno song is good, but not following these rules, then what's the problem?

Most of the posts in this thread are irrelevant to the point and purpose of the thread. This is basically to help people understand that not generally the more successful a song is, the more memorable it is. A melody is a quick and easy way for listeners to remember a song.

Even that's a bit irrelevant. If you have trouble coming up with a melody or song idea, there are tips to help you ignite the fire.

[Hydlide]

Re: Melodies: Tips, Tricks, and Concepts

I personally like the concepts. There is just one minor rule that usually comes to my mind for me when I want to create a melody that sticks:

'try to whistle it'

if you suck with whistling it... ok, then you might have a problem then

A melody can be so simple to remember, but hard to whistle from time to time eventhough the melody itself is just easy to create using a midi keyboard or sequencer.