Is America's failing education system going to impact our economy in 10 years' time?

Re: Is America's Failing Education system Going to Impact our Economy in 10 Years' Ti

Yes. Substantially. The most obvious reason I can see is from political tension created by unequal distribution of education.

It's easy to ask how this will impact our economy. Instead, you should be asking: what will you do to change it?

Re: Is America's Failing Education system Going to Impact our Economy in 10 Years' Ti

Good question to ask. As of now, all I can do is urge others to take charge of their life and education and don't become part of the statistics that measures who uses welfare and feeds off of the already faltering government. I praise those who are making something of themselves.



~Bynary Fission

Re: Is America's failing education system going to impact our economy in 10 years' ti

The wages of students who have graduated college have been on the rise while for non-college graduates it has nearly flat-lined. While our public schools are failing, American colleges are still the best in the world, both as research centers* and educational institutes.

Low wage workers do little for the economy that others in other countries cannot, and the truth is, America's colleges are great. A lot of low wage, high school graduates are probably against globalization and more immigration, with high wage college graduates not minding it. Just an estimation, but a g od one. It's not because college graduates are "smarter," but when you assume people are acting in their self-interest, it's obvious that low-wage workers would want a bit of protectionism. High wage workers have only to gain from emigration. It means cheaper prices when they're very unlikely to lose their job. Harford briefly explains this in the first chapter of his easy to read book, The Undercover Economist.

It's also a fallacy to assume that non-college kids are only making less because they didn't go to college. The type of mentality that propels one into college can contribute significantly.

A failing education system would certainly impact the economy. Today with so much globalization, the demand for a good education that will secure a future job is high. When other countries catch up in educational quality (arguably they've already exceeded ours) and economic power (that will take lots of time), then corporations will want those smarter kids.

Lots of kids in America are stupid. But a lot are also really ambitious. I doubt that you'll have trouble getting into a decent college.



* Note that colleges are usually graded by their research centers quality. If not, then by other stupid means such as the quantity of inefficient bulky books in a university library. Going to Harvard does not ensure a top quality education, especially since you will likely not have the teachers that make Harvard noteworthy because they are researching too much or they are only focusing on graduate courses. Harvard is ranked number one as a research facility. Its ability to educate, for all we know, could be mediocre! In all honesty, citing the quality of an educational center is impossible and attempts detract from quality because no objective method can be made yet schools should adhere to these grading systems to make their colleges seem best. Attempts such as counting the number of books in a library discourage electronic databases which are efficient and cheaper. And attempts to hold to stupid standards may compromise education (University of Colorado's Law School: greatest example in the world). I bull****ted that American colleges are the best for education because it's impossible to say; I just assume so.

Re: Is America's failing education system going to impact our economy in 10 years' ti

I honestly believe the problem is in our dropout age. It seems (at least here in North Carolina) that it becomes more difficult to drop out every year, and it also seems that the "general population" gets dumber and dumber every year. I think we should let kids drop out early; if all they want to do with life is to work in a blue collar job or a specialized business owned by their parents, I don't see what right the state has to confine them to 13 years of education. Some people just aren't ambitious, and their lack of ambition brings the school, overall, down. Let the kids who want to learn learn, but don't force those that don't want to.

Re: Is America's failing education system going to impact our economy in 10 years' ti

The school I go to started raising the standards gradually in 1995, because the failure/dropout rate was at a stunning 33.2%. Now Algebra II is required to graduate, and some Calculus is strongly recommended. The failure rate has improved somewhat by making some pupils work harder, but then there are the few who aren't exactly the brightest crayon in the box, that or they just don't care. There are a lot of those here so the failure rate is still high, so the schools continues to raise the standards. As they continue to do this, those kids at the "average" level who are really trying are going to fail.

But the educational system is not completely to blame. Some kids come home with D's and F's, and their parents don't care, so the kid goes up to his room and plays his X-Box all day and completely ignores the fact that he's got a science report due the next day. Then when he's 30 years old, he complains because he's still working the Drive-Thru, or he's unemployed.
Part of the reason many of America's employees are from third-world foreign countries such as Mexico or India, is because those people live in horrible conditions and are told about a "miraculous place" called America. So these people bust their asses to get an education and get to American and WORK HARD. And then the Americans who were lazy in their school days whine and complain because every time they call technical support, they get this Arabic person that they can't understand. Or that the job they worked for 10 years to get was simply handed to some foreigner. That's because the foreigner worked harder, and the leader of the corporation wants HARD WORKING PEOPLE.

So, in my opinion, it's not the general portion of America's schools, it's the general portion of Americans.

Re: Is America's failing education system going to impact our economy in 10 years' ti

If the parents were required to consent to it if the kid was under a certain age, I'd be more inclined to think this was a good idea. If you could just drop out any time after 14 or 15 years old, a -very- large number of kids would be dropping out because they don't -like- school, not because they've made the educated and reasoned decision that what they want from life doesn't require having graduated.

Edit: I actually had a really interesting conversation with another friend of mine the other day while sitting in line waiting for my student loan money (hehe) and one of the things we saw as a major issue with the education system, is the insistance that you -MUST- complete each leg of the system in a certain amount of time.

If we rigged up highschool to be more like the way college works: You can sign up for any number of 1-X (depends how your school sets up its years, here it is 1-5 per semester) courses, and take as long as you like to actually get through your degree. If a kid could get a part time job, work, make money, gain experience, and still have time for 1 or 2 courses a semester of highschool, they can work at their own pace, as they are comfortable. They'd do this because even though they are working, it isn't really until you get out into the working world that you properly appreciate how much of a benefit those classes can be.

You'd also have the advantage of being able to go and recieve credit for the classes in fields you were interested in, without having to do everything whether you wanted to or not, and we'd create an entire subset of middling-skilled workers. Someone who'se done grade 9-12 math and physics is more qualified than a dropout, even if they are less qualified than a graduate, but in a job that only wants math and physics, I'd figure on that being enough to get them a much better shot at the job.

Re: Is America's failing education system going to impact our economy in 10 years' ti

Well for these reasons, I am taking an online high school, where I can speed up my education, graduate faster, not deal with stupid kids and teachers, and work at my own pace. It's a godsend. I am taking tons of honors classes, I may clep some classes, and graduate at 15 or 16. Great stuff. I am not so concerned about what college I get into as the quality of education I will receive. I know some C++ and am learning more all the time. I am building skills with 3D programs. I will create my own music. I intend to have all the skills necessary to excel in video game programming by the time I am done with high school.


~Bynary Fission

P.S Kids should not legally be able to get a job until they're 18 or they've graduated, and the dropout age should be raised to 18. This may alleviate some of the problem, because you gotta go to school or you can't get that summer job you've always wanted, and were willing to ditch school for it.

Re: Is America's failing education system going to impact our economy in 10 years' ti

There are so many jobs that require absolutely no education or even particular training to do that are nevertheless vital jobs that need doing for the society to function properly, and to forbid anyone from working until 18, and forcing everyone to stay in school until 18....

If anything, I'd think it should be mandatory -TO- have a part time job of some sort before 18, rather than forbidding it. I mean, you can get a social insurance number at 14? Give or take? From that point on, you are legally allowed to work at jobs that aren't paper routes and babysitting, and frankly, I see nothing but benefit from making it so you have to find some kind of employment by 15 or 16.

Re: Is America's failing education system going to impact our economy in 10 years' ti

Well that's the problem, it's a double-edged sword. Some people who are doing school full-time or even more than that might not be able to get a job. With my schedule, I couldn't. But if I didn't, then what? Would it be fair to sacrifice part of my education for a job?

The problem is, a job frequently gets in the way of school. So if it was mandatory, I'm sure we'd see a precipitous drop in failure/dropout rates for that required job. Either way, schools will always have dropouts. No matter what laws are enacted and no matter how good a school is. But if the child were to get the help he needs (And sadly, many schools are understaffed and underfunded), then maybe the situation would improve.

Re: Is America's failing education system going to impact our economy in 10 years' ti

Mandates are absolutely cruel things.

First of all, many places are reluctant to actually hire teenagers. Your thinking is one dimensional in that aspect. Mainly, there's a surplus of untapped labor because of minimum wage. No worthwhile economist in the world believes that minimum wage has no negative effect on employment. It would be nearly impossible to create enough jobs with it there. If we got rid of minimum wage, it still would not be too long until the market hits equilibrium--few teenagers would subject themselves to an hour of hard work for a mere $4.

Secondly you're completely disregarding trade-offs as a result of scarcity. I am a part of two huge extracurricular clubs: robotics and drama. They take up a heaping portion of my schedule on top of homework and school. Many kids in drama are also a part of band, which takes up just as much time as my robotics does. If I were required to get a job, I would have to face an unfair trade-off because at this point in my life I really don't care for a job in the first place. That's a big reason why I don't have one.

What you're proposing is that you know how people should be spending their time. Instead of doing one thing, they should be doing another. Micromanagement of the economy is absurd. How one's time "should" be spent is a question that need not be left to others, since those who directly receive the benefits know better than anyone else how they should spend their time--and have the most incentives to balance their time to their preferences and to increase their intrinsic and extrinsic daily marginal output.

Then we as teachers and parents would start emphasizing the importance of education in the first place. When your mom and dad don't nearly disown you for dropping out of school, well then it's highly unlikely you're in an environment where you're going to eventually realize you should care about your education. And that's fine to me. If kids don't want to learn, give me those tax-supported resources. I obviously want them more than those kids do.

Why should we protect ourselves from ourself? When a kid learns from experience that they should be in school and is given a personal incentive to keep being educated, then more gets done. So all I ask is that we let kids **** up.

Re: Is America's failing education system going to impact our economy in 10 years' ti

You make it seem like a job is bad for a student. For a student to do well in school, they need to have a motivation to do well and this motivation can vary from a wide range of reasons. Your reason to do well in school is because you want to be able to program computer games and because of self-interest. This is not necessarily the same reason for everyone.

My old chemistry teacher said that getting a job while taking school was the most beneficial thing that occurred in his education. Before, he didn't appreciate school because he didn't know what it could do for you and as such, he didn't want to learn. However, when he found a job at McDonalds, he realized he wanted to get an education and do well in school so he would never end up having to take orders from a person who was in a sense, dumber than he was.

Also, it appears that you come from a family who does not appear to have financial issues. You probably have a family that is willing to pay or can pay your education. Not everyone's families are like that. You have the option of focusing all your time towards your education and the fact that you don't want a job is your decision. However, not every kid has that option.

~Tsugomaru

Re: Is America's failing education system going to impact our economy in 10 years' ti

I understand. I am not trying to make it sound bad. I said that it was a double edged sword, and it can be hindering to some people, but beneficial for others. Some need a job. Others have to dedicate themselves to school and can't get one. Each person has an individual set of needs, and achieving those needs naturally differs.


And who knows, I may try to squeeze a job in sometime soon.




~Bynary Fission

Edit: Not have financial issues? My families has been from below middle class to poor my whole life. It's still that way. I've had this same computer since 2002, and my mom has had hers since 2003. They get used very heavily, and are in need of upgrades that we can't afford.

Re: Is America's failing education system going to impact our economy in 10 years' ti

Alright, I'm sorry about the personal attack, but I was trying to make a point about the situations of people.

~Tsugomaru

Re: Is America's failing education system going to impact our economy in 10 years' ti

I believe the major failure in the public education system of the United States is the assumption that all high school students are college-bound. It assumes that all students are created equally, and thus, our public school system is a leveled playing field. However, there are a lot of other factors that contribute to why a student might drop-out: socio-economic standing, immigration status, cultural upbringing, parental investment, as well as other external factors such as: the influence of friends, drugs, and alcohol.

I agree with Carbo, our colleges are some of the best in the world. There's a reason it is competitive to get into a good college, because not everybody is an high school drop out. Drop outs still represent a minority. And dropping out is by no means the end of someone's scholastic career.

I had a few friends that actually tested out of high school (since the exit exam is 8th grade material) and continued their education at a local community college, thus giving them a year advantage over their classmates like me who chose to stay in high school.

So, while I agree our education system could be better, it is by no means a bad system (well, No Child Left Behind is a horrible system, but I honestly can't speak from personal experience as I graduated before it was utilized.) I know the California states standards allowed for a lot of freedom in the classroom, so long as we met the requirements set forth by the state. And I feel like I got a very good education at my public high school.

I apologize, this post was kind of all over the place.