Ok so I really hoped I wouldn't have to make a thread like this, but to fill in those who have remained unaware, there was cheating in this previous game, which occurred between Hakulyte and rzr talking about their roles and their actions over Skype to some extent. Below are some logs that were provided by Haku towards the end of the game.
These are a few logs that I think very clearly implicate both parties, and anyone who thinks that this kind of behavior is anywhere close to acceptable in a game without OOTC is not in touch with reality. Yoshl and I talked about how long a ban length should be for both rzr and Haku, whether or not they deserve the same ban or not, etc etc, and that's part of why this thread is being made.
As some backstory, Haku was the one who fessed up to me, and provided me with the logs. I do believe that there is some amount of remorse Haku feels for their actions, but I also have to admit that there is a clear discrepancy regarding certain things Haku has said after coming to me, which I think a few others may be able to speak on as well. The reason for why Haku cheated is something that has remained utterly inconsistent, and I think that Haku has attempted to downplay their involvement in the matter, and has basically outright lied to persons who were talking to them about the matter. So, this part is kind of weird. I am unsure how much Haku being new to TWG played into this, but I think Haku knew what they were doing to some extent, and has said this to me as well as Yoshl, although contradicting it later.
Rzr is someone who, unlike Haku, I am 100% certain knew what they were doing was very much against the rules. I have no doubt in my mind that this was malicious. He will most likely give a defense of himself, which is part of why this thread is being made as well, so I won't speak too much to this, because I think its a bit simpler here. He believes he is less guilty than Haku is, at the very least, so that's something that needs to be talked about. Yoshl suggested banning both of them equally, and for the remainder of 2016, which I like, but I would like to hear what you all have to think about this. I don't think I support a permaban in either case, but consider it realistic.
This is not the entire reason behind why the thread is being made, there are a few other things that can be sorted out here as well.
Ben has been far too inactive in games he has signed up for. He almost always (but not always) has a negative impact on games by signing up for them and going inactive, forcing either a replacement, lynch or modkill on his slot. I think that this warrants a ban, as does Yoshl. 5 games is what I was thinking here.
Zenith replaced out in an awkward time for mostly emotional reasons (though he did cite irl reasons as well) and left his wolf team in an incredibly awkward position (which was recovered about as well as it possibly could've been, and still managed to have a clearly negative impact on the game). I think that this is probably the trickiest thing being addressed here, but I do think it warrants a ban because signing up for a game is essentially declaring that you're going to be able to put up with the emotional aspect of the game, which he was unable to do. I think that it is the most forgivable of the actions that took place, something like 2-3 games is what I was thinking here.
There is no current basis for bans for those who replace out of games, I was thinking in the meantime just a 1-game ban for all players who replace out until the system Yoshl is working on is put in place.
Lastly, there was a LOT of info that got to living players (in particular rzr and Haku) that should not have. Talking to players who are living about the game, especially in a game without cardflipping, outside of the thread is never ok. Talking to them privately is, obviously, fine, but there are certain limitations. Sometimes, something just slips out, I get it, it even happened to me recently when I was talking to Haku after I died in the Ace Attorney game (I forgot he was a replacement).
What is important, and something I cannot stress enough is, if this happens, TELL THE GAME MODERATOR. Always. No exceptions. If you obtain OGI, the onus is on you, the player, to go to the moderator and explain what happened, so that they may properly address it. They may modkill you, they may replace you, they may make a player illegitimate to replace into the game. This is all bad, but continuing to play the game as if nothing happened is far worse. No one, and I mean no one, is capable of actually not letting the OGI change their gameplay.
I understand that sometimes when you're talking to another player, even not necessarily about the game, sometimes, things slip out. It happens. Its forgivable. But when it does, you need to tell the mod.
I think it pretty much covers everything. I hope that this gets everything squared away. I, for one, am a HUGE fan of how Manti handled these kinds of things, and I think this is (with more words obviously) what he would've done.
These are a few logs that I think very clearly implicate both parties, and anyone who thinks that this kind of behavior is anywhere close to acceptable in a game without OOTC is not in touch with reality. Yoshl and I talked about how long a ban length should be for both rzr and Haku, whether or not they deserve the same ban or not, etc etc, and that's part of why this thread is being made.
As some backstory, Haku was the one who fessed up to me, and provided me with the logs. I do believe that there is some amount of remorse Haku feels for their actions, but I also have to admit that there is a clear discrepancy regarding certain things Haku has said after coming to me, which I think a few others may be able to speak on as well. The reason for why Haku cheated is something that has remained utterly inconsistent, and I think that Haku has attempted to downplay their involvement in the matter, and has basically outright lied to persons who were talking to them about the matter. So, this part is kind of weird. I am unsure how much Haku being new to TWG played into this, but I think Haku knew what they were doing to some extent, and has said this to me as well as Yoshl, although contradicting it later.
Rzr is someone who, unlike Haku, I am 100% certain knew what they were doing was very much against the rules. I have no doubt in my mind that this was malicious. He will most likely give a defense of himself, which is part of why this thread is being made as well, so I won't speak too much to this, because I think its a bit simpler here. He believes he is less guilty than Haku is, at the very least, so that's something that needs to be talked about. Yoshl suggested banning both of them equally, and for the remainder of 2016, which I like, but I would like to hear what you all have to think about this. I don't think I support a permaban in either case, but consider it realistic.
This is not the entire reason behind why the thread is being made, there are a few other things that can be sorted out here as well.
Ben has been far too inactive in games he has signed up for. He almost always (but not always) has a negative impact on games by signing up for them and going inactive, forcing either a replacement, lynch or modkill on his slot. I think that this warrants a ban, as does Yoshl. 5 games is what I was thinking here.
Zenith replaced out in an awkward time for mostly emotional reasons (though he did cite irl reasons as well) and left his wolf team in an incredibly awkward position (which was recovered about as well as it possibly could've been, and still managed to have a clearly negative impact on the game). I think that this is probably the trickiest thing being addressed here, but I do think it warrants a ban because signing up for a game is essentially declaring that you're going to be able to put up with the emotional aspect of the game, which he was unable to do. I think that it is the most forgivable of the actions that took place, something like 2-3 games is what I was thinking here.
There is no current basis for bans for those who replace out of games, I was thinking in the meantime just a 1-game ban for all players who replace out until the system Yoshl is working on is put in place.
Lastly, there was a LOT of info that got to living players (in particular rzr and Haku) that should not have. Talking to players who are living about the game, especially in a game without cardflipping, outside of the thread is never ok. Talking to them privately is, obviously, fine, but there are certain limitations. Sometimes, something just slips out, I get it, it even happened to me recently when I was talking to Haku after I died in the Ace Attorney game (I forgot he was a replacement).
What is important, and something I cannot stress enough is, if this happens, TELL THE GAME MODERATOR. Always. No exceptions. If you obtain OGI, the onus is on you, the player, to go to the moderator and explain what happened, so that they may properly address it. They may modkill you, they may replace you, they may make a player illegitimate to replace into the game. This is all bad, but continuing to play the game as if nothing happened is far worse. No one, and I mean no one, is capable of actually not letting the OGI change their gameplay.
I understand that sometimes when you're talking to another player, even not necessarily about the game, sometimes, things slip out. It happens. Its forgivable. But when it does, you need to tell the mod.
I think it pretty much covers everything. I hope that this gets everything squared away. I, for one, am a HUGE fan of how Manti handled these kinds of things, and I think this is (with more words obviously) what he would've done.
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