6th Official FFR Tournament - Is over, Congrats to all our winners!

Re: 6th Official FFR Tournament - Round 3 has started!

Is it possible for you guys to post all the grey-area players from the beginning so that we know if we have a chance of getting moved up from unsure placement and not worry about "skill boost too much = divison up"?

Re: 6th Official FFR Tournament - Round 3 has started!

This thread

Re: 6th Official FFR Tournament - Round 3 has started!

I am going to make it past this round because I'm a fierce competitor. I wouldn't mind being in D3 since I always wanted to try out the new division and see how it's like. If I don't like it, easy, PM the person in charge of the tourney and politely ask them to bump me back down.

I have talked to zak since we've been buddies for a good while and he said that he was fine with being in D4B in my tourney and that he's fine with the placement of D4 in the official one as well.

Re: 6th Official FFR Tournament - Round 3 has started!

Keep up the good work! You'll be surprised how far you'll get in the tournament :]

So tempted to siggy this because this made my day xDD.

Re: 6th Official FFR Tournament - Round 3 has started!

I think you're starting to care too much. You gotta go get high or something.

I don't see any reason to ask them to do a lot more work for us when they're already doing so much.

Edit: "I am going to make it past this round because I'm a fierce competitor."
Lol sorry, I didn't mean to make it sound like you were going to get eliminated

Re: 6th Official FFR Tournament - Round 3 has started!

you, queef, and plan

Re: 6th Official FFR Tournament - Round 3 has started!

If the tournament organizers really didn't want sandbagging to happen they would make the tournament 1 divisional, such that only D6 players would even have a shot at the prizes. They wouldn't have to go through all this placement and sandbagging trouble if they didn't feel the need to reward lower-skill players. I can understand the divisions because they genuinely want to attract people into playing the game just a tad more seriously, to let players improve, and letting everyone compete and be rewarded for the time they put into the game. Why else would you feel compelled to introduce low-skill competition? (by low-skill, I refer to everyone not in D6)

FFR's tourney is designed with a very differing condition of competition compared to most tournaments for rhythm games, and games in general.. We can play the songs as many times as we like instead of going head to head live. It's a VERY forgiving system, and I imagine it has something to do with the fact that it's combo-based scoring. But even looking at osu! World Cup taking place currently, which is also combo scored (worse actually: exponential scaling combo-based scoring), they still play their games live (this comparison has some issues, but I'll leave it). I don't think I could name very many other tournaments (any off the top of my head right now for that matter) that have this kind of system that lets you continuously play and score your best. So don't let the rewards fool you: it's casual tournament gaming to a heavy degree.

Concerning sandbaggers, there's easily incentive to stay in the lower divisions because of the way the prize structure is set up, and also just because of competitive nature in general, like ironic mentioned. But you can't tell with absolute certainty the difference between a sandbagger and a person who is improving from an online standpoint, barring the extremely obvious. There isn't a clearcut point where you can objectively move someone up a division either- like hi19 said, it's punishing to move people around in divisions for those people who are midway (top of their division, but can't even place in the division above).

That being said, there's no reason why players shouldn't be able to complain, regardless of whether they are rational or not, because this is a system that you chose to endorse. You signed up for the whole package.


tl;dr Division tournament structure is inherently flawed for a game like FFR

$0.02

Re: 6th Official FFR Tournament - Round 3 has started!

Or just don't bold anything and there won't be much of a negative reaction to it. Maybe try getting your idea across in multiple posts or put spaces every 2-3 sentences so that people aren't overwhelmed by a block of text.

That's what I do anyways. Hasn't been bad for me so far I think O.o

Re: 6th Official FFR Tournament - Round 3 has started!

See what you can do when you push yourself? That took you 2 hours, I've been trying since it came out and can't beat my 6/0/0/6. Actually have gotten worse at the song now. -_-

Re: 6th Official FFR Tournament - Round 3 has started!

First off.. no

second off.. I'd rather have it known who might be bumped up or not based on some scores that I can't see as a non-vet. I still stand by if someone works to get to the top of their division, they shouldn't be put into the higher division. Even if they were an outlier to begin with.. (which exceptions like sandbaggers)

Re: 6th Official FFR Tournament - Round 3 has started!

kjwkjw and I had a very long conversation about this and we support this as well. Well said Wineandbread.

Re: 6th Official FFR Tournament - Round 3 has started!

This is a perfectly fine viewpoint. And I've considered it... on the other hand, by the very nature of calling this a tournament, you are inviting the competitive aspect to come to the fore. And part of any competition is the assumption of a consistent playing field. People went into this tournament with a set group of divisions. They knew who they would be competing against, even if not everyone might have agreed with the placements. And to change that in the middle of the competition destroys a lot of the incentive behind competing- why bother to excel if all that gets you is arbitrarily moved to where you're bound to lose?

It's the same reason people would probably make a huge deal if a sports team had its division changed mid-season, or if a professional tournament just decided to un-seed one of its competitors completely against the structure they usually use... nobody likes to feel punished for improving.
I'd honestly rather live with having the divisions wrong and vow to do better next time than change everyone's expectations mid-way through. And so, because of what you're saying in your post (the prizes are honestly not worth getting so worked up over) I'd say that we might as well live with the incorrect divisions we started with. To me, that's better than changing the nature of the tournament entirely mid-way though and destroying part of what makes competing fun.


I'm sure the response to this is to pick apart every word I've said and take it out of context, but I am mostly addressing the precedent this sets. What's the point of competition if you can't be sure you won't be punished for improving?

Also this.

Re: 6th Official FFR Tournament - Round 3 has started!

And how do we prove the difference between a skill boost and a sandbagger? A sandbagger can easily just say they've worked at it too.

At the start of this I said something about how we could just make the official a 1 division tournament, everyone freaked. Which I expected because then that only leaves what maybe like 10 people that could actually fight it out for prizes?

Re: 6th Official FFR Tournament - Round 3 has started!

lol, lighten up XD (at the first part I mean)

I agree with you that it would be nice to know that, but it's futile. It may 'solve' the problem of getting bumped up. But it'll create a crapload of new problems. So what's the point in spending time doing it? Especially since they're volunteers. It's not like anyone on this site gets paid. And it's not like you're paying for any services.

It's FREEEE <3

Re: 6th Official FFR Tournament - Round 3 has started!

You can't, largely due to the anonymity of the internet.
So you might as well just accept that the tournament may have these kinds of flaws and move on from there. Better than changing the expectations halfway through, in my opinion.