purchased isn't broken anymore

Re: purchased isn't broken anymore

The argument being that Oni and vROFL are valid tokens one can acquire. They are more difficult to achieve, but they can be achieved, and therefore should play a part in the levelranks like any other song.

Re: purchased isn't broken anymore

I think vrofl should be taken off of the list if it gets put onto public AAA and fc chart. Only because its impossible to fc or AAA.

Re: purchased isn't broken anymore

Well, I'm not sure if you getting the song for free means it's working right...ehehe

What about death piano? That's not exactly easy to fc, yet allone (possible to) AAA

Re: purchased isn't broken anymore

Vrofl is impossible to fc. Death piano isnt impossible to fc.

Re: purchased isn't broken anymore

I'm not sure. That seems a pretty arbitrary reason to exclude it from the bars. I mean Death Piano doesn't look like it's going to be AAA'd any time soon (if ever) and it's included.

And to clarify my earlier point I should not be ranked 2,577 for vROFL if it is included. Due to the new challenge policy the unfairly obtained challenge scores should (ideally) all be wiped. However, I'm unsure if admins are highly enthusastic to do this :P Maybe some sort of score cleaning script could be devised, but this is way out of my league.

Re: purchased isn't broken anymore

I don't support losing the accuracy of levelrank.... I guess.


EDIT: Excuse my half broken head at 7:54AM.

Re: purchased isn't broken anymore

Well if they cleaned up the vROFL scores, everyone who doesn't have it would be ranked 73 (assuming all the token-holders have played it at least once), which I would not mind at all. This would only affect some people who have very low average ranks, but if you have such a low average rank I don't see why you wouldn't have a decent chance of getting it in official tournaments... (and a lot of people with double-digit average ranks have vROFL already)

Re: purchased isn't broken anymore

Well the thing is that they already *did* clean up the vrofl scores. There was one day (April Fools '07? not sure) where it was available for anyone to play, and then after that it became a skill token... so the way that they cleaned it up was by deleting any scores which were newer than that day and by people who didn't have the token (that is, scores gotten through challenges). Of course if it became public I'd prefer to see all of those other scores archived and removed, since it's unfair to everyone who wasn't around then.

Even though vrofl is technically possible to FC since the avmiss fix, the criterion for being a public file shouldn't be whether it is FCable/AAAable (since back in the avmiss days there were a few public files that you couldn't FC, such as Crowdpleaser). I think it's more important to consider whether a typical user has a reasonable chance of getting it. Anyone can get the purchased and secret songs by just playing the game long enough, and the skill and cleverness required to get skill tokens or regular tokens can be acquired through practice and dedication. But for vrofl the only way to get it is to basically be in the right place at the right time - either be in the top 8 of FFR when a tournament comes or happen to be in a division that you're one of the best in. I think it would just be unfair to have it make a difference in public levelrank, because a typical user basically can't get it.

Re: purchased isn't broken anymore

That's a pretty good point. Par from the high divisions, getting vROFL is highly luck of the draw IMO (and one of my main gripes with the official tournaments).

Re: purchased isn't broken anymore

What about just removing all secret songs and purchased songs from levelranks? Any problem in doing that? They never really were "public" anyway.

Re: purchased isn't broken anymore

How much do subbies cost credit-wise?

Re: purchased isn't broken anymore

The fun in losing all of it is that it's like starting over. It's nice to see the fix, but did they have to wait till after gambling to do it?

Re: purchased isn't broken anymore

for the ~6 subbie songs.... i think it could be dealt with with not having a levelrank for 6 songs. you can always check your rank on the song via the levelstats (if you're top200) or via the results screen in game.

the reason to potentially bar vROFL from the profile bars is that it's the one token that isn't public.

that's how it is......

i did fix it up somewhat. i removed about 70 scores from the vROFL list. but, also, it wouldn't be rank 73. it was public for 1 day. many users only played it on that day and did not get a challenge on it to play it since. it wouldn't be fair to remove those users scores.

Re: purchased isn't broken anymore

Yes, that could certainly be done. It would probably mean I'd be more than only 1 or 2 secret songs behind though. It takes me a while just to earn the ~10k between songs now.

I think the skill tokens, and maybe the achievement ones, are a pretty good way of keeping everyone from getting every single song in the game. Of course there are some excellent players who can probably get every single one of these, but I imagine most players can't. I've pretty much resigned myself to not getting all of them. At least they're not affecting my average rank.

I suppose that no matter how high the secret songs go, people will be able to get them *eventually*. Similarly with purchased songs. Given enough time and enough playing, you'll get the credits for them. But skill tokens that require you to do specific things may never be obtained by some people. I guess that's why I always saw skill tokens as the main way of keeping (some) songs out of everyone's hands. *shrug* Just my thoughts.

Re: purchased isn't broken anymore

Definitely. I feel like there is currently enough content for those users first starting out and enough content to challenge the vast majority of users. It becomes a tough balance between listing to the loud voices on the forums, which usually come from the more experienced players and understanding the unvoiced opinions of the newer user or casual user who isn't posting. It's also tough for me, because I'm near the upper echelon of players myself, so my vantage point is a bit skewed.

So I recognize the need for more easier levels... most of what we add now are Very Difficult or harder, which is a byproduct of the fact that simfile authors step what's fun for them, which is usually harder songs/charts. But we also have plenty of users at the upper spectrum, who are vocal, who want more challenges. We'll see what can be done to please everyone.

About the average rank concerns... the one thing I can point out is that generally those that can access the songs that you can't are also the ones who would be getting a better score than you. So having a 0 likely wouldn't hurt you anymore than having the song be easier to acquire and having you and more users play it. At least, that's one way I think of it.