Communism is bad?

[bmah]

Re: Communism is bad?

I've been to China twice. It's hard to get a real understanding of China since they really want tourists to ignore/be blind about certain aspects of the country they don't want you to see.

I'd say it depends on where you go, what's your status, and what you do. The government is certainly improving, but there are still many shady aspects.

[~kitty~]

Re: Communism is bad?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUw7P-WCnUk

I hope this post finishes off the rest of your questions, and if not; please be specific and thorough in asking (and list the questions) so I can have an orderly way of answering them, if I can.

Okay, the video clears up a lot of what I wanted to know. I see both sides now with a more clear scope now.

The other side that supports the Chinese government says that the Chinese government uses the "Military" force to retain the revolts as to keep the general "peace" in China, because a revolt can lead to huge amounts of violence, especially because of the population size of China. However, another side (probably mostly Americans) say that it is an unnecessary use of force, right?

I think I see what's going on now, but I still want to know more, and more opinions on what people feel about the practices of Communism in countries such as China and Korea. Please include other Communist countries as well, because I know even less about the others. I don't like when people bash other countries with ignorance. I want to be able to have a stance while knowing the right stuff, and I also want to know how people think about these topics on both sides.

[RB_Quackies]

Re: Communism is bad?

Most people see it as an unnecessary use of force, yes. As it stands, average annual salary in China is about $21,000 (in a good standard). Pretty much, what is considered very low class to poor house in America (for 2-3 people) is what 8-10 people live in in China, without heat/air conditioning etc. Those are generally the wealthier ones, too. However people who live in major cities, like the capital are usually a little bit better off in terms of living standards, but still nothing like here at all.

Basically the communist fundamentals where you have a job, house, and food for life still stand, it's a safe assumption to say that the Chinese people are now realizing (because of the American economy monopolizing their workers) that it is not enough, and they are revolting for a democracy.

I don't know too too much about others, as I didn't study asian/african modern too much, mainly the history and cultures of them. However, Chinese government was never releasing the fact that we're basically at our hands and knees to China, seeing as how we owe them almost $14.5 trillion dollars in debt. However, it is now starting to come out more openly in public through BBC and Voice of America (odd, that's the same way the Russian people found out about Chernobyl, Voice of America. The government didn't explain to their people that there was a massive nuclear explosion, a satellite caught the mushroom cloud and a large gaping hole and reported it). That's a different story though.

Up until here, I've used my knowledge from what I've learned in studies, in this last message I've made radical decisions overlooking both sides, and pretty much came to a conclusion that the Chinese people want more from their government, knowing that it's the largest growing economy in our world; and the government refuses to accept any changes. In my honest opinion, there have been and will be attempts at a Chinese Revolution, but it will never happen, because the Chinese government simply doesn't care how many people they have to eliminate to bring back order. On topics of other countries, I can't help you too much. Korea, Libya and Egypt I would consider more of dictatorships than communist, and in retrospect, communism has slowly been dying out of countries, mainly for socialism and capitalism (respectively, in numbers). In a nutshell, there just aren't many completely communist countries anymore, and if there are, there's few and they are definitely small, in world standings that is, because they don't make any type of headlines.

I hope I've been a help, and I hope you can find out anything else you're looking to learn about it.

[devonin]

Re: Communism is bad?

China hasn't actually operated under communist principles for decades. There has never been an -actual- communist state in the entire history of the modern world. Cuba under early Castro is about the closest and even it missed the mark.

Judging communism by ANY currently functioning state claiming to be communist is to completely misunderstand how communism is supposed to run.

[kommisar]

Re: Communism is bad?

The best systems in any wealthy educated country is always a mix of socialism/capitalism since you do need both. Universal health care should be a standard in any developed country.

Americans criticize a lot of countries for being "communist" because they offer lots of social services, or have situations such as China. It's like they're afraid of the word or something.

[MrReincarnatix]

Re: Communism is bad?

China today isn't communist in the strictest sense -- it certainly has many communist elements (namely in the government), but there have been many capitalist implementations (primarily regarding open markets and private rights). I might classify China as a capitalist authoritarian society.

[Vendetta21]

Re: Communism is bad?

Extreme leftism has legitimate philosophical and scientific roots, while also accepting the fact that every incarnation it experiences is doomed to failure. Capitalism is a system that erupted spontaneously, being a system that basically destroys friction in markets over time. But capitalism produces some grotesque things, and doesn't really seem to care that much about the well-being of people.

Leftism (socialism, communism) is about trying to implement economic structures that are centered around humanistic ideals periodically, which will appear, fail, and then appear again. It is not characterized by being an efficient system or self-sustaining, but a system of necessity. Part of the idea is that even if you succesfully implement a socialist or communist measure the natural course of capitalism will wear away at it over time, and so it won't have permanence.

A good book to read to understand where these people are coming from is First As Tragedy, Then As Farce by Slavoj Zizek. It's not the easiest philosophy in the world to get behind, but most of what people think about modern communism is wrong and so trying to understand it is interesting.

[~kitty~]

Re: Communism is bad?

Okay, a lot of my questions have been answered now, but one question that I need to have answered for the sake of my personal comfort at home is, "How does Communism 'deny God's existence'?" Personally, I'm not really someone who cares much about "God," however, I live in an environment where I'm constantly nagged about a God, so I just kind of want to know why people think this so I can feel more comfortable. I don't know if there's any legitimacy behind the claim or not, or if it refers to Marxism and the idea of abolishing established Religions... I don't know if I'm making any sense anymore.

[MrReincarnatix]

Re: Communism is bad?

Okay, a lot of my questions have been answered now, but one question that I need to have answered for the sake of my personal comfort at home is, "How does Communism 'deny God's existence'?" Personally, I'm not really someone who cares much about "God," however, I live in an environment where I'm constantly nagged about a God, so I just kind of want to know why people think this so I can feel more comfortable. I don't know if there's any legitimacy behind the claim or not, or if it refers to Marxism and the idea of abolishing established Religions... I don't know if I'm making any sense anymore.

Short answer: No, communism is an ideological/political/societal/economic system and doesn't (fundamentally) say anything about religion.

However, again, in practice, communist systems have typically tried to suppress religion due to its nature as a method of societal control. Having a religion meant there's a chance of holding your God as an authority above the government's. As a result, religion was strongly discouraged because they basically wanted you to place your life's meaning in the context of the society itself and not the supernatural. Karl Marx has famously cited religion as an "opiate of the masses" that detracted people's time and energy away from progress. Questioning the communist government was seen as a huge problem. The government was concerned with what's called a sort of "partinost," or a commitment to the working-class cause -- and the belief that everything the party does is correct.

Stalin, when he was young, was a priest-in-training himself -- and he knew the power of religion. He felt that that kind of power would not mesh well with communist rule. You only served one master -- you were only loyal, devoted, and committed to one entity.

[Calcium Deposit]

Re: Communism is bad?

Isn't Star Trek communist?

[ffraxis]

Re: Communism is bad?

To correlate communism with China in more recent days is a little bit off, because they have been much more lenient with business in the past 10 years, and are pretty much shifting into a socialism-Marxism type of government. However, America on the other hand, "land of the free" has shifted from pure laissez-faire capitalism (absolutely no health care restrictions, minimum wage, worker benefits, NOTHING besides what's best for the business) has slowly been becoming otherwise. Our 3 republican presidents of the booming 20's, Harding, Coolidge and Hoover, established this as "The business of America, is business" and basically, ever since then, we've been drifting towards what people consider "communism" and that is, to end where I started off, total and utter control by the government.

Its not about the government becoming communist, its about the corporations taking over and becoming organizations that exert power nationally or internationally with the interest of making profits, maintaining specific profits, and of course buying off people or using dirty work to make sure they are maintaining themselves in power.

So to the speak, America is becoming a plutocracy.

[Reincarnate]

Re: Communism is bad?

lol

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-march-28-2011/i-give-up---pay-anything---

[Vendetta21]

Re: Communism is bad?

So to the speak, America is becoming a plutocracy.

lol becoming?

[Cavernio]

Re: Communism is bad?

What Devonin said.

You're happy to learn about what China's like as examples of what communism really is, yet ignoring everyone who says its not communist. Strict laws to keep the peace does not mean its communist. As to your questions about Korea, neither South nor North Korea is communist. South Korea elects a president, North Korea is a dictatorship. If you want to call dictatorships communist, well then of course they suck.

Secondly, the definition of communism does not necessarily mean the state controls everything. Its the people who control things. Once a state forcibly takes control, then communism no longer exists.

The people who I've talked to who seem to hold worst views of communism come from eastern Europe, probably people who've lived in the USSR and the aftermath of it.

As to belief in God and communism, the 2 really have nothing whatsoever to do with each other. Whatever your dad is spewing is probably a specific example of some dictator's ideals which were then forced upon that country, or something.

[hayatewillown]

Re: Communism is bad?

If you're interested in any novels which may give an Idea (and possibly a side for you),
Read 1984. It's a good read.