Should the government stop abortions?

[GuidoHunter]

Re: Should the government stop abortions?

For someone so worried about the denotations of a word I'm surprised to see you use such an empty word as "many".

I could play the dictionary game with you all day, but you know as well as I do that those two words are not synonymous, and that the media do not, by any means, have "authoritative influence" or "dominating influence" over us.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[devonin]

Re: Should the government stop abortions?

So...influence is a power affecting someone, and control is the -successful- exercise of influence on someone.

So the media only -controls- you if is is -successful- in -influencing- you.

If you choose to not let it influence you, then it does not control you.

[jewpinthethird]

Re: Should the government stop abortions?

I don't understand why it is that men seem to be the major debaters in the abortion argument. Or rather, whose idea was it to let men be in-charge of what women can do with their body?

[devonin]

Re: Should the government stop abortions?

I don't think that any of the men in this discussion feel that "Men should be in charge of what women do with their bodies" but that doesn't stop men from having an opinion on the subject, nor should men in any way be forbidden to express their opinion on the subject.

As many people want to stress in this thread: making a baby takes a man too, so why are men forbidden to have an opinion about what happens to it?

[jewpinthethird]

Re: Should the government stop abortions?

I'm not saying that men shouldn't have a say. It's just a majority of the lawmakers and the president are males...and I really think it's a matter that women should have the final say in.

[devonin]

Re: Should the government stop abortions?

Well, it's something (if the government is legislating on it) that the government should have final say in. If there are no prominant female members of government to be involved, that seems indicative of entirely a seperate topic of discussion.

Men and Woman all vote to elect their government, and if abortion issues are particularly important to voting women, they can make it an electoral issue when deciding for whom to vote (And many do)

Though I mean, to me it isn't a subject any government, even one run entirely by women, should have the first say in at all.

[GuidoHunter]

Re: Should the government stop abortions?

I don't understand why it is that men seem to be the major debaters in the abortion argument. Or rather, whose idea was it to let men be in-charge of what women can do with their body?

Women's bodies are not the only ones in question, here. My concern does not lay with them.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[sherbtail]

Re: Should the government stop abortions?

I suppose with the case of birth control "accidents" I'll just have to go back to my old argument: The purpose of sex is reproduction. If you are engaging in sex you should and eventually will have to accept that responsibility. If you can't handle that responsibility, you don't have any business having sex.

You see, I don't think the purpose of sex is just reproduction. Biologically yeah it is, but we're not just rabbits, or dogs, driven by our genes to make muchos babies. Interestingly, dolphins have sex for pleasure too, I had to interview one for this class project.


I don't really agree with abortions and I think it's a doctors responsibility to make very clear all the other alternatives to women, which I'm sure they do. It also alarms me that 16 year olds can get pregnant and then have an abortion without their parents knowing, I just don't think a 16 year old can make that kind of massive decision on their own especially when they're emotionally all over the place as they will be just getting knocked up.
So yeh, I think abortions are generally wrong, but I think banning them would be stupid, as has been said before it would just open up a new market for back street abortions, (which is incidentally why I think many drugs should be legalised, but thats another tale.) and also women deserve the right to a choice at the end of the day.

[The Bain]

Re: Should the government stop abortions?

Ok physically that is true that the final decision if both male and female agree acknowledge they are having sex. (rape not included)

So where do you think the peer pressure comes from?

Friends, and where do friends get there information on what is "in" and what isn't?

The media...........

Its not a scapegoat at all, its the problem.

Our social life is not physcially but mentally controlled by the media. You would not know 3/4ths of the things that you know about current events if it wasn't for the media.

Prove to me that I am wrong....................

What about certain government program attempts on television? Many government made commercials encourage positive actions such as keeping fit, eating healthy, staying in school, ect

The government certainly does try to push for abstinence on television. I myself have seen a couple of their commercials on the issue. The question is... who do you listen to? Concerned children's advertisers, or Much Music?

It is simply pitiful if you get your ideals on wheter pre-marital sex is wrong from 50 cent rather than some kind of trained professional such as a doctor who can tell you the negative conseuences of your actions. It's what you choose to watch.

Finally, you absolutely still have the consiousness to be able to tell that something is wrong. You would have to be extremely weak-willed in order to let the media be the only deciding factor in your life.

[xWnLx Crisco]

Re: Should the government stop abortions?

What about certain government program attempts on television? Many government made commercials encourage positive actions such as keeping fit, eating healthy, staying in school, ect

Why do you think they made those programs in the first place? Wouldn't you think it was a reaction of a cause and effect?

The government certainly does try to push for abstinence on television. I myself have seen a couple of their commercials on the issue. The question is... who do you listen to? Concerned children's advertisers, or Much Music?

Sadly this is where teaching a child in early ages how to choose between and start making adult decisions.

It is simply pitiful if you get your ideals on wheter pre-marital sex is wrong from 50 cent rather than some kind of trained professional such as a doctor who can tell you the negative conseuences of your actions. It's what you choose to watch.

I certainly agree with you but it happens to millions of teenagers every single day. There would not be anti drug commercials if teens did not do drugs. But they still seem to die from many different forms of illegal intoxication of a substance.

Finally, you absolutely still have the consiousness to be able to tell that something is wrong. You would have to be extremely weak-willed in order to let the media be the only deciding factor in your life.

Again true but this is where social "rank" comes into play. You know that there are girls out there that rate each other if they are virigns, novices, or experts. (atleast I do) A person could be emotionally distraught becuase she is still a virgin and is made fun of at school or where ever.

I know its easy to say well those girls and males are weakly minded and can't make a decision by themselves. Ok and? What are you going to do about it to change how they think and how they see there friends in this social "rank" we have going on.

The reason why kids are having sex at a young age is not because they want to have a baby and thats the problem. Until you can stop "causual" sex from the minds of millions of kids, adults, humans then you can get yourself a whole box of cookies.

[The Bain]

Re: Should the government stop abortions?

The reason why kids are having sex at a young age is not because they want to have a baby and thats the problem. Until you can stop "causual" sex from the minds of millions of kids, adults, humans then you can get yourself a whole box of cookies.

Absolutely true. Can these teenagers truly not find some better way to express love than sex? I see your point.

[stretchypanda]

Re: Should the government stop abortions?

You see, I don't think the purpose of sex is just reproduction. Biologically yeah it is, but we're not just rabbits, or dogs, driven by our genes to make muchos babies. Interestingly, dolphins have sex for pleasure too, I had to interview one for this class project.


I don't really agree with abortions and I think it's a doctors responsibility to make very clear all the other alternatives to women, which I'm sure they do. It also alarms me that 16 year olds can get pregnant and then have an abortion without their parents knowing, I just don't think a 16 year old can make that kind of massive decision on their own especially when they're emotionally all over the place as they will be just getting knocked up.
So yeh, I think abortions are generally wrong, but I think banning them would be stupid, as has been said before it would just open up a new market for back street abortions, (which is incidentally why I think many drugs should be legalised, but thats another tale.) and also women deserve the right to a choice at the end of the day.

I'm not talking about anything other than biology, though. The purpose of sex is reproduction. The purpose of any species is to perpetuate it's genes. You are right that we are separate from other animals, but what separates us from all other animals, including those that have sex for pleasure, is that we have the ability to consciously decide when and if we want to fulfill our overall genetic goal. The fact that sex feels good is basically encouragement to keep doing it. If sex didn't give us pleasure, do you think that we, who are programmed to reproduce but also able to decide not to, would do it ever? Would our species thrive if we did not enjoy sex? No, no it wouldn't.

Also, I was unaware girls under 18 could have an abortion without parental knowledge/consent. I know girls can get on birth control without parental consent, but as far as I know, a minor still needs parental consent to have an abortion, but I am basically speaking from my knowledge of Texas and Arkansas law, so I could be wrong.

[sherbtail]

Re: Should the government stop abortions?

Yeah, that's not the rules here, it's crazy really, parent should be informed. Although I'm not sure if required parental consent is a good idea, because at the end of the day they're not the ones having the baby, but they should be in the loop so they can try and talk their child out of having an abortion or whatever, and also just be there to comfort them in a pretty traumatic time.

[Kilgamayan]

Re: Should the government stop abortions?

I'm not sure how one can argue "purpose" while staying purely in the realm of biology. Reproduction is a direct byproduct of sex (and a potentially very atractice one at that), but to say the purpose of sex is reproduction seems to be leaving bio and entering philosophy, at which point people are going to start disagreeing.

Not that I am one of those people. Just sayin'.

[xWnLx Crisco]

Re: Should the government stop abortions?

Absolutely true. Can these teenagers truly not find some better way to express love than sex? I see your point.

Right on