Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

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  • #346
    is against custom titles
    GuidoHunter
    • Oct 2003
    • 7371

    Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

    Read the thread before you post in it. Also, don't double post and get some decent grammar.

    --Guido


    Originally posted by Grandiagod
    Originally posted by Grandiagod
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    • #347
      FFR Simfile Author
      FFR Simfile Author
      Reach
      • Jun 2003
      • 7471

      Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

      Originally posted by xinpig
      this is just like pi

      btw x/inf gets you a very small # provided x does not = 0
      it just tiny .00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001
      still aint 0 no matter how many 0 you add
      The reason this isn't true is hard for most people to understand because of the concept of infinity itself.

      Infinity does not have a quantifiable 'rate'...that is, you cannot imagine a number that is constantly getting smaller and smaller like you have shown here. It is false to do so.

      Infinity exists without any bounds, and therefore its rate has no bounds. Instead of imagining what you have just shown, take a minute to try and imagine what would happen if you let those zeros extend such that they exist everywhere that can exist at any given point in time.

      Difficult, isn't it? But what happens to that one? It's gone! You'll never find it. The unbounded set of zeros infront of it exist everywhere that can exist, unbounded annihilating the 1.


      If anything, just remember that you cannot quantify the value of infinity in this case.

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      • #348
        FFR Player
        FFR Simfile Author
        EI_Tizzy
        • Aug 2006
        • 942

        Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

        Originally posted by vengefullangel
        Sorry to be an ogre (especially if I turn out to be wrong) but....

        The limit as x approaches infinity of sin 1/x does not equal 1. The sin of 0 does not equal 1.
        Sorry to be an ogre, as well, but:
        Originally posted by EI_Tizzy
        For instance, take the limit of x sin(1/x) as x goes to infinity. The "x" term will approach infinity (obviously), and the "sin(1/x)" term approaches 0. Yet, as we can see on a graphing calculator, the ends of this equation clearly go to 1. So in this case, infinity x 0 = 1.
        I said it was 0, but the limit of xsin(1/x) is 1.

        Like it's been said many times before, we ALL know X can never reach infinity... but if we couldn't ASSUME it does, Calculus couldn't ever work, and most of the technology you use today wouldn't be able to function, just because things can't be quantized into infinitely small/large parts.


        Calculus is SOOO awesome too. You can prove that 1^infinity is exactly e... or any power of e for that matter. I guess some people won't learn until it's presented in front of them, which obviously can't happen as infinity isn't a concrete idea. Oh well XD
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        • #349
          FFR Player
          lord_carbo
          • Dec 2004
          • 6222

          Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

          Originally posted by EI_Tizzy
          Calculus is SOOO awesome too. You can prove that 1^infinity is exactly e... or any power of e for that matter. I guess some people won't learn until it's presented in front of them, which obviously can't happen as infinity isn't a concrete idea. Oh well XD
          Maybe my informal education is limited, but I'm fairly certain you can't "prove" 1^inf is equal to any power of e because, well, 1^inf isn't even really equal to anything and e is a mathematical constant.
          Last edited by lord_carbo; 03-20-2007, 04:16 PM.
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          • #350
            FFR Player
            rel89
            • May 2006
            • 2046

            Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

            I can't agree that -infinite exists.
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            • #351
              FFR Player
              Raveren
              • Sep 2006
              • 785

              Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

              Heh, this great, I can't wait till I take Calculus AP next year....
              “A painter paints his pictures on canvas. But musicians paint their pictures on silence. We provide the music, and you provide the silence.” -Leopold Stokowski

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              • #352
                FFR Player
                RandomPscho
                • Jun 2006
                • 504

                Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

                Which Ap course? AB or BC? Just A?

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                • #353
                  FFR Player
                  FFR Simfile Author
                  bluguerrilla
                  • Apr 2006
                  • 3966

                  Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

                  Originally posted by lord_carbo
                  Maybe my informal education is limited, but I'm fairly certain you can't "prove" 1^inf is equal to any power of e because, well, 1^inf isn't even really equal to anything and e is a mathematical constant.
                  The reason that you can say that "1^infinity" can be anything is because it is an indeterminate form -- you have to get there somehow. Usually you start with an expression like (1-1/x)^x and you consider what this is equal to as x goes to infinity. If you just put in infinity you get "1^infinity" but if you do it carefully you get 1/e. It's the "doing it carefully" and not naively part that gets people in trouble.

                  So, you really can say that "1^infinity" can be anything, especially if you change that expression above to be (1-y/x)^x. Then you get e^-y as the limit, which can be any real number (yes even zero).

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                  • #354
                    FFR Player
                    lord_carbo
                    • Dec 2004
                    • 6222

                    Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

                    Originally posted by rel89
                    I can't agree that -infinite exists.
                    It does, and if you take/learn calculus you'll use it.

                    Originally posted by bluguerrilla
                    The reason that you can say that "1^infinity" can be anything is because it is an indeterminate form
                    1^infinity isn't indeterminate--it's undefined. There's a difference. And AFAIK, expressions can't be indeterminate because you're not solving for anything in an expression, but that's irrelevant either way.
                    Last edited by lord_carbo; 03-20-2007, 06:06 PM.
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                    • #355
                      Super Scooter Happy
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                      Kilgamayan
                      • Feb 2003
                      • 6583

                      Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

                      Why do people keep posting in this thread? x(
                      I watched clouds awobbly from the floor o' that kayak. Souls cross ages like clouds cross skies, an' tho' a cloud's shape nor hue nor size don't stay the same, it's still a cloud an' so is a soul. Who can say where the cloud's blowed from or who the soul'll be 'morrow? Only Sonmi the east an' the west an' the compass an' the atlas, yay, only the atlas o' clouds.

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                      • #356
                        FFR Player
                        Linkisdoomed
                        • May 2004
                        • 594

                        Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

                        Here's my two cents:

                        Infinity = any number
                        x = variable (any real, nonreal, imaginary number)
                        0 = nothing.

                        Infinity * X = Any real, nonreal, imaginary number.
                        " * 0= Nothing. Anything * 0 = absolutely nothing.

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                        • #357
                          FFR Player
                          lord_carbo
                          • Dec 2004
                          • 6222

                          Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

                          Originally posted by Kilgamayan
                          Why do people keep posting in this thread? x(
                          Because people feel like they can put their "two cents" on fact, e.g. the post above me.
                          last.fm

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                          • #358
                            FFR Player
                            RandomPscho
                            • Jun 2006
                            • 504

                            Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

                            STOP POSTING IN THIS THREAD. Please.

                            Infinity * 0 = Undefined.

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                            • #359
                              FFR Player
                              FFR Simfile Author
                              bluguerrilla
                              • Apr 2006
                              • 3966

                              Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

                              Originally posted by lord_carbo
                              It does, and if you take/learn calculus you'll use it.


                              1^infinity isn't indeterminate--it's undefined. There's a difference. And AFAIK, expressions can't be indeterminate because you're not solving for anything in an expression, but that's irrelevant either way.


                              Uhh... yes it is /\ and no it isn't \/



                              Edit: Even better: http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Indeterminate.html
                              Last edited by bluguerrilla; 03-20-2007, 06:18 PM. Reason: Even better..

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                              • #360
                                FFR Player
                                lord_carbo
                                • Dec 2004
                                • 6222

                                Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

                                Oh.

                                Edit: OH.
                                Last edited by lord_carbo; 03-20-2007, 06:27 PM.
                                last.fm

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