Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

[aperson]

Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

Can you prove 1 + 1 != 2?

1 + 1 == 2 is an unprovable operation in any numerical system. It can be defined or proven from other axioms (such as Zermelo-Fraenkel Set Theory + Axiom of Choice); however, it can only be shown as a consistent statement in inconsistent systems.


But let's not go into Gödel's theories here, they would make all of your heads explode.

[Reach]

Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

Mmm, Godel.

Indeed, an informal system such as the human mind can deduce from a formal system more than the system can actually prove or show as a whole. I suppose this is why intuitively, 1+1=2 is obvious but cannot be proven.

However, it does show that trying to explain everything as a formal system is futile, and that it is wrong to assume that proofs are truths and must be formulated on these guidelines that can never be met.

I quite like the paradoxal idea that we can see that something is true because it is unprovable.

[A2_Sauce]

Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

Mmm, Godel.

Indeed, an informal system such as the human mind can deduce from a formal system more than the system can actually prove or show as a whole. I suppose this is why intuitively, 1+1=2 is obvious but cannot be proven.

However, it does show that trying to explain everything as a formal system is futile, and that it is wrong to assume that proofs are truths and must be formulated on these guidelines that can never be met.

I quite like the paradoxal idea that we can see that something is true because it is unprovable.

you wanna try rephrasing that?

[darkdieuguerre]

Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

Mmm, Godel.

Indeed, an informal system such as the human mind can deduce from a formal system more than the system can actually prove or show as a whole. I suppose this is why intuitively, 1+1=2 is obvious but cannot be proven.

However, it does show that trying to explain everything as a formal system is futile, and that it is wrong to assume that proofs are truths and must be formulated on these guidelines that can never be met.

I quite like the paradoxal idea that we can see that something is true because it is unprovable.

Statements that can't be proven but are true are also called postulates, so 1+1=2 is a postulate. It is "obvious", yet it cannot be "proven". It's just like saying that there can only exists one line that is parallel to a given line through a point not on the given line (aka the Parallel Postulate). If the postulate is wrong, then the whole system of mathematics falls apart. If everything could be proven off of everything else, then there must be a flaw somewhere. You must make an assumption and develop off of that assumption. It's nice how dependent we are on postulates that look true but mightn't be. Just imagine if someone disproved one of those postulates...

[Reach]

Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

you wanna try rephrasing that?

Godel thinks you can find truth in something by showing it cannot be proven.

As such, that means that truth and proof are not necessarily the same things, as you would assume. Which is why it is reffered to as a paradox; you can know something is true because you can't prove it as a fact.

I'm not completely familiar with all of Godels inconsistancy theorems though, and as such probably need to read up on them....after finishing that chem assignment I've been putting off for days ;D

[A2_Sauce]

Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

Is it true that if there is another intelligent civilization somewhere out there in the universe... they would find the exact same number as pi... but it wouldn't be 3.1415926535897932384.... because we are on a 10-number system, is this correct?

[flamingspinach]

Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

Mmm, Godel.

Indeed, an informal system such as the human mind can deduce from a formal system more than the system can actually prove or show as a whole. I suppose this is why intuitively, 1+1=2 is obvious but cannot be proven.

However, it does show that trying to explain everything as a formal system is futile, and that it is wrong to assume that proofs are truths and must be formulated on these guidelines that can never be met.

I quite like the paradoxal idea that we can see that something is true because it is unprovable.

<Reach> Mmm, Godel
<Godel> Mmm, ReachIN FOR MA FUCEN HIDDEN RIFLE/WALKING STICK
<Godel> FUCEN EVIL PROFESSORS
<Godel> I AIN'T EATIN **** FUC NO
<Godel> brb dying of starvation
<Godel> lmfao get it
<Godel> GODEL'S FIRST COMPLETENESS THEOREM
<Godel> MY WORK HERE IS COMPLETE
<Godel> QED
* Godel has quit (broken pipe)

[darkdieuguerre]

Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

Is it true that if there is another intelligent civilization somewhere out there in the universe... they would find the exact same number as pi... but it wouldn't be 3.1415926535897932384.... because we are on a 10-number system, is this correct?

It depends on the base that the other civilization uses. If they use base 10, we should have the same number. Otherwise, the number should be the same, just represented in whatever base they have, but converted to base 10 the number should be correct.

[foolishwun]

Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

wait wait

Inf - Inf = undef?


inf - inf = 0
cus for the exact same value over 0 the positive inf is it is completely undone back to 0 by the negative inf in the exact way it is increased from 0

[RandomPscho]

Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

Infinity isn't a value though. It is something that is unbounded and has no numerical value.

[foolishwun]

Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

exactly.
and whatever is is minus whatever it is makes it come all the way back to zero no matter what it means

[businessman07]

Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

thread is still going strong, math is like proving nothing is somthing. we breath air, but what is air? atoms stuck together?

[foolishwun]

Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

whats with the people saying 1 + 1 dosnt equal 2
its not "relative"
1 always = 1
if you have 1 apple and i give you another apple, you will have 2 apples
didnt we learn this in grade 1

[businessman07]

Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

how do you know 1 = 1?

[darkdieuguerre]

Re: Infinity * Zero = Any Number ARGUE HERE

Okay, Infinity - infinity != 0. (!= means not equal to).

Since infinity is not a value, we must use calculus. Take the examples:

lim (x->inf) e^x-x = infinity.

lim(x->inf) x-e^x = -infinity.

1=1 by the Reflexive Property. However, 1+1=2 cannot be "proven". If you read a few more posts, maybe you'd realize that the discussion revolved out of some spam.