The Fitness Thread

[Reach]

Re: The Fitness Thread

Honestly, it's up to you man. But here's how I see it: I used to get sick constantly, colds, flu, random fevers. I didnt process things very well, I didn't ever have any energy.

I started taking animal pak by itself, and I have not gotten sick, I don't feel bloated/full all the time, and I feel so much better just in general (other than some general aches and pains), and almost across the board people agree with me.

I am wondering; when did you start taking animal pak?

Because the symptoms you describe sound like...symptoms of obesity, and I know you lost a ton of weight.

When I was overweight I was sick a lot, never had any energy, felt gross all the time, lethargic and 'light headed' when I didn't eat all the time.

Lost weight, exercised, problems went away.


Mind you, I also changed my diet, so maybe some of these things are vitamin related, but I definitely feel like this is only necessary for people with a diet with limited variety.

[Reincarnate]

Re: The Fitness Thread

When I was overweight I was sick a lot, never had any energy, felt gross all the time, lethargic and 'light headed' when I didn't eat all the time.

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[Senip]

Re: The Fitness Thread

I am wondering; when did you start taking animal pak?

Because the symptoms you describe sound like...symptoms of obesity, and I know you lost a ton of weight.

When I was overweight I was sick a lot, never had any energy, felt gross all the time, lethargic and 'light headed' when I didn't eat all the time.

Lost weight, exercised, problems went away.


Mind you, I also changed my diet, so maybe some of these things are vitamin related, but I definitely feel like this is only necessary for people with a diet with limited variety.

I was 270ish when I started using pak, so I was at like 20%. Not exactly fit and trim, but not obese. I've always gotten really sick though, even when I was a football player I'd play through with colds, and I was at 12-15% then.

[Cavernio]

Re: The Fitness Thread

Honestly, it's up to you man. But here's how I see it: I used to get sick constantly, colds, flu, random fevers. I didnt process things very well, I didn't ever have any energy.

I started taking animal pak by itself, and I have not gotten sick, I don't feel bloated/full all the time, and I feel so much better just in general (other than some general aches and pains), and almost across the board people agree with me.

So for me, unless I go completely broke, I'll keep using my animal pak.

You've just described a bunch of celiac disease symptoms as I know them as well as confirmed you're deficient in vitamins. The vitamin deficiency is the outcome of celiac disease as the immune system destroys one's own intestines along with the gluten it's try to get rid of. Since being dx as a celiac and not eating gluten and dairy, I have not had any random hot or cold spells or chills or feeling like I'm getting the flu and running a fever but my temp. is actually low. And no, my thyroid's been tested before and since being gluten free, and it's all in the right range. I've also lost about 90% of my bloat (well it's acted up again recently, I must have eaten something wrong, probably the chocolate that might have traces of dairy). I'm still waiting for higher energy and concentration levels though, like I used to have.
Anyways, you should definitely tell a doctor about that and make them look into your intestinal health, not just for celiac disease but for any parasitic, fungal, bacterial or simple inflammatory issues in your digestive system. If you're that deficient in nutrition, there's something wrong.


I don't even take multivitamins, although I do take individual vitamins. I take iron because I'm often borderline deficient, and I'm off and on with b vitamins particularly b12, I plan on taking some vit D this winter (milk is always supplemented with it but i don't have dairy anymore), I occasionally take some zinc because I've read not having enough of it in balance with copper is, like, the explanation for PMS. I choose not to take multivitamins for a couple of reasons: they make me constipated (because I'm taking all my minerals at once), they don't emphasize the nutrients I want properly (basically useless amounts of b12 but potentially damaging doses of b6), and lastly so many nutrients seem to compete with one another for absorption that even if I need them, I figure I won't be getting them anyways when I take them all at once.
I make myself eat liver a couple times a month. It's actually kinda tasty when made into a pate or when hidden in a ton of onions and bacon.

The proper way to do all this is really to get someone to run your bloodwork and find out exactly what you're low in and what you're high in, and start from there. Being the US you should be able to find a healthcare professional to do that for you, provided you can pay.

No one would need to supplement omega 3's if diets weren't insanely high in omega 6s and 9s. Cut out vegetable oils of all types and most people's ratios would be fine.

Also, in reference to a much older post, I find the best way to not eat a whole (or almost a whole) bag of chips, for example, is to not buy any in the first place. It only requires 1 moment of will-power to not buy the chips, but once they're in your house, it's constant willpower needed when you're at home. It helps to only grocery shop when you're full. Unfortunately this doesn't work when at work, and maybe it doesn't work for less lazy people, who don't mind going to store to get chips when they want chips but there's none in the house.

Oh one last thing, if you want to understand supplements properly, I think you need to devote your life to researching them. It's clearly incredibly complex.

[Reach]

Re: The Fitness Thread

I was 270ish when I started using pak, so I was at like 20%. Not exactly fit and trim, but not obese. I've always gotten really sick though, even when I was a football player I'd play through with colds, and I was at 12-15% then.

Uh, that's quite obese, actually. And around 36% body fat, assuming you actually gained 12 lbs of LBM during your cut (Unlikely. A good chunk of that is probably just intramuscular glycogen and water) and that you're about 12% now (seems reasonable).


Also, Cav, Celiac disease is incredibly rare and involves a complex diagnosis. It's highly unlikely he has it, especially when those symptoms can be caused by any # of different problems. Of course, it's always a good idea to go to your doctor and get some tests done if you haven't already.

[kmay]

Re: The Fitness Thread

20% bodyfat is obese?

[Reach]

Re: The Fitness Thread

No, 20% would not be, but his estimate was way off.

If he's about 12% now and around 210 pounds (last I could find he said he was about 215), he has 185 pounds of LBM.

If he had 173 pounds of LBM at 270 pounds (assuming he gained 12 lb LBM between then and now), his bodyfat percentage would have been 36%.

Which is very obese.

[Cavernio]

Re: The Fitness Thread

1/100 people isn't extremely rare imo, also said to check out everything about his digestion.

[Senip]

Re: The Fitness Thread

No, 20% would not be, but his estimate was way off.

If he's about 12% now and around 210 pounds (last I could find he said he was about 215), he has 185 pounds of LBM.

If he had 173 pounds of LBM at 270 pounds (assuming he gained 12 lb LBM between then and now), his bodyfat percentage would have been 36%.

Which is very obese.

Hmm, my math is off somewhere, or I got lied to. I got the calipers done by my old gym and they said 20% at 270. Wouldnt surprise me if they did, since they're pretty mercenary and would want me to keep thinking the gym was making me lose more than I was.

I'm at 220 now at 12%, though. Weighed in/checked to verify this morning.

I'm pretty sure most of the muscle gains I've made is simply due to the fact that I already had a really strong base (if not bodybuilderish) in lifting in high school.

http://stronglifts.com/colorado-experiment-casey-viator-arthur-jones/

Like Casey Viator, except I'm no genetic freak. (My hips are too wide, lol)

And, no. I don't have Celiac's disease. Maybe a mild gluten allergy (I cant eat some breads without getting really full, and puffy) but otherwise...

The whole reason why I was lacking in vitamins is because I ate absolutely shitty. bags and bags of baked lays, pizzas, drank diet coke like it was going out of style, cupcakes, jelly beans...I'm lucky I didnt end up with diabetes.

[Reach]

Re: The Fitness Thread

I'm pretty sure most of the muscle gains I've made is simply due to the fact that I already had a really strong base (if not bodybuilderish) in lifting in high school.

Oh, that makes a lot more sense then. I have seen a study showing that people that have lifted in the past can gain muscle on a caloric deficit, so you probably did gain 10-12 pounds of muscle. The muscles seem to rebound very quickly; I've experienced this as well.

I too lifted in high school and then got mad out of shape in university. When I started lifting again my gains were ridiculous for the first 1-2 months.

Won't happen that way if you're fresh to lifting though.



As for calipers, they were definitely off at your gym, since the math doesn't lie. They probably just don't know how to use calipers lol. Plus they can be difficult to use reliably on larger individuals. Much easier to measure it yourself, since you can rely on yourself to do it the same every time, thus giving you a reliable reading over time.

[Reincarnate]

Re: The Fitness Thread

Can anyone recommend any good tests? I'd like to get some bloodwork/biometrics done so I can have some numbers (levels of different minerals/nutrients, cholesterol, blah blah blah). Do I just get a simple blood test?

[Senip]

Re: The Fitness Thread

Can anyone recommend any good tests? I'd like to get some bloodwork/biometrics done so I can have some numbers (levels of different minerals/nutrients, cholesterol, blah blah blah). Do I just get a simple blood test?

Yup. Just say you want the full blood test. BUT MAKE SURE you go back and get your doctor to go over it with you, and explain things. And dont let them ****ing charge you twice for it, tell them you already paid for the test and this is a follow up. office workers will **** you over if you let em.

[Senip]

Re: The Fitness Thread

http://forums.musculardevelopment.com/showthread.php/16718-Diet-Warrior-s-14-Day-CKD-for-Pre-Cycle-Priming

You might have to join the forums to see this. This is probably one of the best write ups for CKD that I could find, because he gives you baseline numbers, ideas of what to eat, and describes his mood etc so you can understand whats going on.

(Yes, its for a pre-cycle prime, but he did it drug free, so its completely viable even for us)

[Reach]

Re: The Fitness Thread

http://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/...131(12)00189-1

Interesting study on intermittent fasting.

[Cavernio]

Re: The Fitness Thread

I notice absolutely nothing when I eat bread or anything else glutinous. At least not unless I've been eating it for weeks, and even then I'm compounding that with dairy and I do know that dairy makes me bloated. It's a complete misnomer that all celiacs feel awful when they eat gluten or that an individual can 'just tell' they have a gluten problem. The majority of celiacs go undiagnosed. I was only diagnosed because I asked for the test (along with other tests that no doctors had bothered to test me for) because I strongly suspected a malabsorption problem. I was pretty shocked to find out that I had it TBH.
That you say you even notice anything with some types of bread is pretty odd...Food isn't supposed to make you bloated, end-of-story. Why are people so resistant to tests? You've got nothing to lose except a couple bucks. If you were to *magically* find out you were one, you could still continue to eat the same food you eat now if you wanted. (I think that would be beyond dumb, but it's still an option.)
Also to be semantically correct, bloating isn't an allergic reaction. Allergies involve an IgE response of the immune system, which involves things like hives and shortness of breath. Celiac disease involves an IgA reaction and appears to not be studied nearly as much as an IgE reaction.


I cannot recommend good blood tests. I know they can measure b12 and iron and folate levels as that's all I've ever gotten. TV shows show that blood tests can measure numerous other nutrients, although D is the only one that comes to mind. Can nutritionists order blood tests? You've got lists of the nutrients, ask them to measure all of them if it's possible.