shamelessly giving Melee another thread

[Afrobean]

Re: shamelessly giving Melee another thread

lmao they're hacking brawl to add glitches in from melee and to make it faster

Some of their ideas are dandy (stage hazards are gay, and so is tripping), but sorry, glitches that are intentionally removed shouldn't be hacked back in lol

ps lol @ no stale move negation why on earth would anyone think that's a good idea

pps some of the moveset mods sound pretty neato too, but since they're not bringing back Pikachu's N64 moves I don't really care

[skyfox_]

Re: shamelessly giving Melee another thread

^theyre not adding wavedashing, which is somewhat ok...
lcancel,crouchcancel,whatever cancel is nice and adds moar depth anad options and stuff.

of course whatever they add its already >brawl

[sleeplessdragn]

Re: shamelessly giving Melee another thread

A glitch that is purposely put into a game is no longer a glitch. In the original Street Fighter, combos were a glitch.

[Afrobean]

Re: shamelessly giving Melee another thread

A glitch that is purposely put into a game is no longer a glitch. In the original Street Fighter, combos were a glitch.

Right.

But you see, while Street Fighter acknowledged and built a glitch into a major feature, Smash Bros. fixed theirs in the next game. If Brawl had adapted wavedashing into an actual feature, your analogy would be apt, but as they removed it, there is no parallel here.

I don't too much mind people abusing glitches in old games, but trying to reintroduce them to a newer game is stupid. And yeah, it says it's not officially a default part of what they're doing with the hack, but I doubt if the majority of people would be THAT interested in "improving" Brawl if they weren't wavedash douchebags. If I recall from reading that smashwiki article the other day, the project was originally started as a means to bring things about Melee into Brawl, things that were intentionally not ported over. Yeah. Maybe "Melee++" would be a better name?

And if they make it possible to play with wavedashing, that's how people will play it because they're dumbasses. They'd rather play a more technical game with terrible physics bugs than a game with better (read: less broken) physics. Just because something takes technical skill doesn't mean it's a good function of the game.

[plasmix]

Re: shamelessly giving Melee another thread

Yeah, but Melee matches are more entertaining to watch.

[Garquillex]

Re: shamelessly giving Melee another thread

Wavedashing wasn't a glitch. It wasn't a bug. It was programmed to happen. Something had to happen when you airdodged into a surface or you would go through it. The result was wavedashing.

No... it is a much better game from a technical perspective. It's more robust, it's physics bugs are less illogical, it has better graphics, more characters and levels. And not to mention it's 1 player mode is more expansive than any other Smash Bros. game yet.

....
dear god

It's almost universally accepted that Melee is technically superior to Brawl. Even people who prefer Brawl admit this. The technical parts of the fighting engine are far superior to those of Brawl. Brawl is poorly programmed and executed. Defensive options outweigh offensive options and that leads to a very degenerate game. Brawl is nothing but hit n' run. I play brawl all the time, mind you.

Graphics and characters do not override gameplay engines. The things you mention are all addons to what the game really is.

lmao they're hacking brawl to add glitches in from melee and to make it faster

They're not trying to make it faster. That is only a byproduct of them making Brawl more competitive because it is a very poor competitive game due to poor technical design.

ps lol @ no stale move negation why on earth would anyone think that's a good idea

This is a temporary removal. What they really want to remove is stale move negation on knockback, but they want to keep it there for damage. However, they do not yet know how to make it so that it only affects damage and not knockback. The reason they wish to institute this is because various characters have very few killing options and stale move negation on knockback really hurts them.

[Afrobean]

Re: shamelessly giving Melee another thread

Wavedashing wasn't a glitch. It wasn't a bug. It was programmed to happen. Something had to happen when you airdodged into a surface or you would go through it. The result was wavedashing.

It was not an intended function of the physics engine. They didn't realize that directional air dodging could be abused to slide around all willy nilly. Thus, in the next version, they got rid of direction air dodging to curb the problem in the physics engine, apparently instead of doing the extra work to revamp the physics engine.

"Physics bug" is probably the best way to describe it. It's an unintended and undesired function of the physics they employ and they went out of their way to remove it from happening. It was "programmed to happen" accidentally, just like every other programming bug that has ever existed.

It's almost universally accepted that Melee is technically superior to Brawl.

Cite your sources, bro. It might require more technical skill, but it's not as advanced of software. Not even considering gameplay, it is a better technically designed piece of software.

The technical parts of the fighting engine are far superior to those of Brawl.

The gameplay requiring skill does not mean the software is better. Contra on NES requires a lot of skill, but that doesn't make it better software than even the worst of 360/PS3 games currently available.

Brawl is poorly programmed and executed. Defensive options outweigh offensive options and that leads to a very degenerate game.

That again is about gameplay balance, not technical quality level of the software.

Graphics and characters do not override gameplay engines. The things you mention are all addons to what the game really is.

You clearly don't understand what I was saying. You believe a game which requires more technical ability is a "technically better game". That is not right. What I was saying is that apart from being more "fun" (a more subjective observation), it is a technically better piece of software (a more objective observation).

They're not trying to make it faster. That is only a byproduct of them making Brawl more competitive because it is a very poor competitive game due to poor technical design.

No... the thing definitely said it increased speeds for fast falls and all sorts of other things.

And just because something is slow in play doesn't mean that it's a "poor technical design". Do you know anything about software design?

[korny]

Re: shamelessly giving Melee another thread

Brawl+ will definitely make me want to play again. Best news I've read all month.

[lord_carbo]

Re: shamelessly giving Melee another thread

Brawl is definitely inferior to Melee.